I will try and refrain from going on a tirade about how this is one of the worst UI’s I’ve ever seen, and there are no instructions with the Premium collection or really anywhere that work.  I’ve read sweetwaters as well as threads on this forum to no avail.  Been working with computer file systems for 15 years, can program in C++, can I make any sense of Yamaha?  no.  This was way easy in my previous Nord.  Young people are going to continue to flock towards video games, iPads, etc if this is what music tools continue to be like.

Ok rant done.

Willing to kick you some funds via paypal if you want to walk me through it or write me instructions that work.  Current issue is it says ‘out of sample memory’ when I attempt to save it to Bank 3 which is what most instructions say to do.  I don’t think I’ve filled up bank3 with anything, but I’m hopeless in determining how to tell.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Welcome to the forum.

I’ll ignore your rant, although I understand your frustration.

Please keep your money.  :-)

Let’s start from the beginning…
It isn’t a matter of having “filled” Bank 3 - it relates to the contents of the optional flash memory module.

1) Is there a flash module installed in your MOXF?
2) If so, what capacity?
3) Have you loaded other sample libraries previously?
4) Have you tried to load the Chick Corea Mark V before?

“Out of sample memory” refers to your optional Flash Module, not BANK 3.

From This Article:

For example, take a Sample Library like the Chick Corea Mark V data. It is too large (400MB) to fit into the 128 MB of SDRAM (USR) on board. You need all 400MB to play even one VOICE. Therefore, you will not even be able to load in one VOICE… A library like this must be installed in order to hear any of the Voices.

Sample data can be configured so that all of the data is used to recreate a single instrument - as is the case with the Chick Corea electric piano. Other types of Libraries may use the sample data to recreate several different instruments ...as in the type found in the (free) “Inspiration In a Flash” Sample Library (466MB). Both use up the majority of a 512MB Board but the former is one instrument recreated in very minute detail, and the latter is a variety of instruments.

That gives you a bit or what you are up against if you have a 512MB Board and want to LOAD these samples on to it.  You really are not going to be able to have much other data on the Flash Board, or you will get that message.

Do you know what is on your Flash Board?

Hi Chris,

Welcome!

Doesn’t matter if you can program in C++++ you are now confronted by a Yamaha Motif series instrument and they have their own brand of logic. If you take lots of deep breaths and go one step at a time this instrument will be your friend for many years. If you try to just jump in and do what ‘you think is logical/correct’ save your sanity and bail right now. The MOXF is a great instrument and platform but you absolutely have to understand how it works, its terminology, methodology etc or else you’ll end up in the funny farm.

Luckily you’ve found the right place. Here you’ll be able to to post questions and get answers, also read tutorials, watch / purchase videos. This site is not run by Yamaha, nor Chick Corea. It is an independent site funded by sales of items in the Shop so please be patient and mindful of the fact that no one here is making money directly (or even, for most people, indirectly) through your having purchased a Yamaha synthesizer.

The best thing to do is to understand how MOXF works; what it is, what it isn’t. Once you’re comfortable with that you can begin to figure out what you can do with it. Some instruments you can just switch on and start working. MOXF is not one of those instruments. But, with a modest investment of time, you will find this a wonderful platform for making music. Hang in there!

5pinDIN - 20 October 2014 01:01 AM

Welcome to the forum.

I’ll ignore your rant, although I understand your frustration.

Please keep your money.  :-)

Let’s start from the beginning…
It isn’t a matter of having “filled” Bank 3 - it relates to the contents of the optional flash memory module.

1) Is there a flash module installed in your MOXF?
2) If so, what capacity?
3) Have you loaded other sample libraries previously?
4) Have you tried to load the Chick Corea Mark V before?

Hi thanks for the responses I appreciate it, here are answers to the questions asked:
1+2) I installed the 512 Flash Module and formatted it, and it shows its empty with ~510MB available
3) I haven’t loaded any other sample libraries, this is my first attempt
4) I’ve tried to load Chick Corea library using the instructions on sweetwater:
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-install-the-motif-premium-collection-on-my-yamaha-moxf/

I reset the unit to default and restored my sequenced songs I created and tried again to no avail.  The only thing I’ve saved in the keyboard is 3-4 songs that I sequenced using the soundset contained in the MOXF.

Using my IT brain, I wonder if it is trying to save the Chick Corea to the limited 128MB it comes with rather than targeting the save to the 512MB.  What tells the MOXF where to target the save of CHick Corea when I select “bank3”? it seems like “bank3” is a loose philosophical idea that may or may not use storage on the 128MB or installed 512MB.  I think I need to find the ‘yes please use the 512’ setting.  I think its trying to write to the 128MB and running out of space, or is doing something crazy and filling up the 512 somehow.

Thanks again, really amazing you guys are taking the time to help me out, Yamaha should be paying you or buying adspace or something.  How many people would just get frustrated and return their keyboards without this site.

Chris

A few things:

VOICE BANK 3 only LOADS the proprietary Yamaha data from the Chick Corea file.  This contains VOICE data., but no Sample data.

The only place the Chick Corea sample data can LOAD is to the Flash Board.  There is no 128MB sample memory in the MOXF, perhaps you are thinking of the Motif XF(?)

It sounds like you have attempted to LOAD the Chick Corea [with sample] twice.  Unless you deleted what you LOADED the first time, it will attempt to LOAD the 466MB (approx.) again...which there is not enough capacity to do.

Did you check the contents of the Flash Board after attempting to LOAD the Chick Corea library the first time?  Go to FILE Mode and press the Flash button [F6] to check it.

I am guessing you may have already LOADED the Sample data to the Flash Board the first time, and now may only need to direct the VOICE data (do not check the “with waveform” or “with sample” boxes this time) to BANK 3.  Did it take a good long time to LOAD the ALL file in the first time?  If so, you were LOADING sample data to the Flash Board.  If you had not been LOADING sample data, it would only take a minute or two to LOAD a file.

Attempting to only LOAD the correct type of data that VOICE BANK 3 can accept (VOICE data) will never result in an “out of sample memory” message.

harrisbueller - 20 October 2014 09:48 PM

[...]Using my IT brain, I wonder if it is trying to save the Chick Corea to the limited 128MB it comes with rather than targeting the save to the 512MB.  What tells the MOXF where to target the save of CHick Corea when I select “bank3”? it seems like “bank3” is a loose philosophical idea that may or may not use storage on the 128MB or installed 512MB.  I think I need to find the ‘yes please use the 512’ setting.  I think its trying to write to the 128MB and running out of space, or is doing something crazy and filling up the 512 somehow.[...]

I think the confusion over the 128MB SDRAM is related to the excerpt from the flash board support article cmayhle posted. That article is concerning the Motif XF, and while informative, not everything in it is applicable to the MOXF. The 128MB is only found in the Motif XF.

Is the message that’s displayed precisely “Sample memory full”?

If you press [FILE], [F6](Flash), are any Waveforms shown?

5pinDIN - 20 October 2014 11:46 PM

I think the confusion over the 128MB SDRAM is related to the excerpt from the flash board support article cmayhle posted. That article is concerning the Motif XF, and while informative, not everything in it is applicable to the MOXF. The 128MB is only found in the Motif XF....

Yes, I think you are correct 5pinDIN.

5pinDIN - 20 October 2014 11:46 PM

harrisbueller - 20 October 2014 09:48 PM

[...]Using my IT brain, I wonder if it is trying to save the Chick Corea to the limited 128MB it comes with rather than targeting the save to the 512MB.  What tells the MOXF where to target the save of CHick Corea when I select “bank3”? it seems like “bank3” is a loose philosophical idea that may or may not use storage on the 128MB or installed 512MB.  I think I need to find the ‘yes please use the 512’ setting.  I think its trying to write to the 128MB and running out of space, or is doing something crazy and filling up the 512 somehow.[...]

I think the confusion over the 128MB SDRAM is related to the excerpt from the flash board support article cmayhle posted. That article is concerning the Motif XF, and while informative, not everything in it is applicable to the MOXF. The 128MB is only found in the Motif XF.

Is the message that’s displayed precisely “Sample memory full”?

If you press [FILE], [F6](Flash), are any Waveforms shown?

Thanks for your help, the message is “out of sample memory”. 

When I checked the contents of the flash module afterward it is empty.  It does take a long time to load before it fails, if that’s an indicator as mentioned in the thread.  Each attempt I formatted and started over, so I know for sure its not filled up and then copying again and its already full.

It seems like perhaps, even though the Chick Corea content is supposed to fit on the 512 module, maybe in reality it doesn’t fit or its trying to copy the large portion of the content to the built in tiny bank3 rather than the Flash Memory, that’s what I think is happening.  As far as I can tell, it never gives an option to copy anything to the flash, and I don’t think the system is smart enough to do that.  I don’t think the system is smart enough to be like “Ok this type of content makes sense in bank three, but this other type, the big type well the best place for that is the flash, oh and the user happens to have one installed, lets put it there”.
Per the sweet water instructions I believe it’s trying to place everything into bank3 including the large sample (forgive if I use the wrong terminology, I mean the largest part of the content “waveform” that is supposed to go on the flash because thats the only place it will fit).

Do you guys think the sweetwater instructions are correct?  Should I be loading it in one step as the instructions state, checking the waveform checkboxes they state and selecting bank 3?  Or maybe multiple steps where you copy samples here, and yamaha proprietary stuff there, and waves to flash in separate steps.  It’s really really challenging because you have no view or choice of what’s really going on, no choice to select what you want to save to the flash during the process.

Thanks for everyone’s help.  I’m picking up the torch on this again after giving up for awhile.
I may check out Kurzweil they are engineered in the US so I’m thinking the UI may be of a different philosophy.  Is it any better?  The Nord’s are out because they don’t have sequencers but they are about 8x better designed in terms of copying files on and off the device with their software, you can just simply see whats on your memory, take things and target them where you want to, see how much space you have etc.  I may try and find a used Motif XF6, mostly because I think there will be more available working instructions and support for that unit.  I bet you all own Motif’s and if I had one you could literally tell me the steps but since it’s a MOXF we are all guessing trying to find the equivalent steps.

Best Regards,

Chris

I’m glad that you haven’t given up on loading the Chick Corea file. There’s no question that the samples for it will fit by themselves on an FL512M flash module, with room to spare.

I have a few thoughts on what might be going wrong, but I’d like to address them one at a time.

Please determine which version of the Operating System is installed on your MOXF, and let us know what you find.

To check the OS version…
Press [UTILITY]
Press [JOB]
Read the displayed firmware (Firm:).

See page 150 of the MOXF Reference Manual

5pinDIN - 18 January 2015 02:59 AM

I’m glad that you haven’t given up on loading the Chick Corea file. There’s no question that the samples for it will fit by themselves on an FL512M flash module, with room to spare.

I have a few thoughts on what might be going wrong, but I’d like to address them one at a time.

Please determine which version of the Operating System is installed on your MOXF, and let us know what you find.

To check the OS version…
Press [UTILITY]
Press [JOB]
Read the displayed firmware (Firm:).

See page 150 of the MOXF Reference Manual

I verified I’m on the latest version, v1.10.  I really think what it’s doing is trying to copy the samples to the Userbank rather than to the flash.  No where in the process on sweetwater do you select the flash board.  I think the process has to be broken down into more steps, one being copying the samples to flash.
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-install-the-motif-premium-collection-on-my-yamaha-moxf/

When I unselect ‘waveforms’ but follow everything else in the sweetwater instructions the process completes, I can find Chick Corea in the list of sounds but there is no sound of course because there is no waveforms/samples. 

Side question, if I buy a Motif XF, will it be some giant debacle copying the sequences I created on the MOXF to the XF (be realistic). Do you know of any verified click by click instructions for doing so?

Thanks for your help,

Chris

The XF does not handle MOXF files, so you would be relegated to moving files into the XF sequencer at the SMF level...like any commercially available MIDI file...not exactly what you are hoping , I’m guessing.

harrisbueller - 18 January 2015 08:23 PM

I verified I’m on the latest version, v1.10.

OK, that’s good - an early version of the MOXF OS had problems loading to the flash module.

 

harrisbueller -

I really think what it’s doing is trying to copy the samples to the Userbank rather than to the flash.

That’s not possible, and many others have successfully loaded the Chick Corea samples.

 

harrisbueller -

No where in the process on sweetwater do you select the flash board.

There’s no need to do so, samples can only load to the (optional) flash module, and Voice and other data to User memory. They are two distinctly separate memory areas, and there’s no way for the MOXF to confuse one for the other.

 

harrisbueller -

I think the process has to be broken down into more steps, one being copying the samples to flash.
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-install-the-motif-premium-collection-on-my-yamaha-moxf/

When I unselect ‘waveforms’ but follow everything else in the sweetwater instructions the process completes, I can find Chick Corea in the list of sounds but there is no sound of course because there is no waveforms/samples. 

I’ve looked over the procedure given in the Sweetwater article you linked to, and I don’t find anything wrong with it. It’s complete as is, and should result in the samples being installed to the flash module and the Voices loaded to User Voice Bank 3.

If you’ve carefully followed those instructions and the result wasn’t complete and proper loading of the Chick Corea library, then something is likely wrong with either your MOXF, the FL512M, or the installation of the FL512M into the MOXF. That last possibility is one to give further consideration. There have been reports of incorrect flash module operation that turned out to be installation-related.

I’d suggest that you remove and reinstall the flash module. The procedure begins on page 71 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual. Step 4-2 on page 72 is especially important - the operative word is “firmly”. Once reinstalled, please try to format the module and load the Chick Corea library again.

EDIT: Perhaps you’ll find this helpful…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/471877/

5pinDIN - 18 January 2015 11:08 PM

harrisbueller - 18 January 2015 08:23 PM

I verified I’m on the latest version, v1.10.

OK, that’s good - an early version of the MOXF OS had problems loading to the flash module.

 

harrisbueller -

I really think what it’s doing is trying to copy the samples to the Userbank rather than to the flash.

That’s not possible, and many others have successfully loaded the Chick Corea samples.

 

harrisbueller -

No where in the process on sweetwater do you select the flash board.

There’s no need to do so, samples can only load to the (optional) flash module, and Voice and other data to User memory. They are two distinctly separate memory areas, and there’s no way for the MOXF to confuse one for the other.

 

harrisbueller -

I think the process has to be broken down into more steps, one being copying the samples to flash.
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-install-the-motif-premium-collection-on-my-yamaha-moxf/

When I unselect ‘waveforms’ but follow everything else in the sweetwater instructions the process completes, I can find Chick Corea in the list of sounds but there is no sound of course because there is no waveforms/samples. 

I’ve looked over the procedure given in the Sweetwater article you linked to, and I don’t find anything wrong with it. It’s complete as is, and should result in the samples being installed to the flash module and the Voices loaded to User Voice Bank 3.

If you’ve carefully followed those instructions and the result wasn’t complete and proper loading of the Chick Corea library, then something is likely wrong with either your MOXF, the FL512M, or the installation of the FL512M into the MOXF. That last possibility is one to give further consideration. There have been reports of incorrect flash module operation that turned out to be installation-related.

I’d suggest that you remove and reinstall the flash module. The procedure begins on page 71 of the MOXF Owner’s Manual. Step 4-2 on page 72 is especially important - the operative word is “firmly”. Once reinstalled, please try to format the module and load the Chick Corea library again.

EDIT: Perhaps you’ll find this helpful…
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/471877/

Thanks, here is what I did so far:
1) Reviewed the owners manual to confirm I’m installing the Flash 512 correctly
2) I happen to own a second flash module, so I removed the one that was in the MOXF and installed the other module I have.
2b) Turned on the MOXF, and was told the flash was invalid, I went and formatted it, it shows 510MB available.
3) Repeated the sweetwater process, which jives with these instructions from yamaha themselves (http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/music-production/synthesizers/sy-moxf/moxf6/10738/8092/)
4) I got the same issue again, “Out of Sample Memory”
Maybe this is a firmware issue or other product bug.

Could the fact I’ve created some sequenced songs using the built in sounds on the MOXF cause this problem?  Nothing is stored on the flash so I don’t see how it would cause an issue.  Maybe I will try resetting to factory defaults and trying again.

Chris

harrisbueller - 19 January 2015 04:44 PM

Thanks, here is what I did so far:
1) Reviewed the owners manual to confirm I’m installing the Flash 512 correctly
2) I happen to own a second flash module, so I removed the one that was in the MOXF and installed the other module I have.
2b) Turned on the MOXF, and was told the flash was invalid, I went and formatted it, it shows 510MB available.
3) Repeated the sweetwater process, which jives with these instructions from yamaha themselves (http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/music-production/synthesizers/sy-moxf/moxf6/10738/8092/)
4) I got the same issue again, “Out of Sample Memory”
Maybe this is a firmware issue or other product bug.

Could the fact I’ve created some sequenced songs using the built in sounds on the MOXF cause this problem?  Nothing is stored on the flash so I don’t see how it would cause an issue.  Maybe I will try resetting to factory defaults and trying again.

This is all rather “unusual”.

The MOXF Owner’s Manual lists possible displayed messages on pages 63 and 64. “Out of Sample Memory” is not in that list, although “Sample memory full” (which I asked about previously) is. I’m not sure what significance that has.

I suppose it’s possible that there’s an obscure bug, perhaps only revealed if you store a particular setting or group of settings. Doing a factory reset might indeed be worth trying, but back up your sequences first if you want to keep them.

As you suggested, your stored sequences should not affect sample storage - the memory areas are not directly related.

If you distrust the firmware, you might try installing the previous version (1.03) and see if that resolves anything.

You might also see if a different library will load successfully. Here’s a link to the CP1 Piano download:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/60662

5pinDIN - 19 January 2015 07:13 PM

harrisbueller - 19 January 2015 04:44 PM

Thanks, here is what I did so far:
1) Reviewed the owners manual to confirm I’m installing the Flash 512 correctly
2) I happen to own a second flash module, so I removed the one that was in the MOXF and installed the other module I have.
2b) Turned on the MOXF, and was told the flash was invalid, I went and formatted it, it shows 510MB available.
3) Repeated the sweetwater process, which jives with these instructions from yamaha themselves (http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/music-production/synthesizers/sy-moxf/moxf6/10738/8092/)
4) I got the same issue again, “Out of Sample Memory”
Maybe this is a firmware issue or other product bug.

Could the fact I’ve created some sequenced songs using the built in sounds on the MOXF cause this problem?  Nothing is stored on the flash so I don’t see how it would cause an issue.  Maybe I will try resetting to factory defaults and trying again.

This is all rather “unusual”.

The MOXF Owner’s Manual lists possible displayed messages on pages 63 and 64. “Out of Sample Memory” is not in that list, although “Sample memory full” (which I asked about previously) is. I’m not sure what significance that has.

I suppose it’s possible that there’s an obscure bug, perhaps only revealed if you store a particular setting or group of settings. Doing a factory reset might indeed be worth trying, but back up your sequences first if you want to keep them.

As you suggested, your stored sequences should not affect sample storage - the memory areas are not directly related.

If you distrust the firmware, you might try installing the previous version (1.03) and see if that resolves anything.

You might also see if a different library will load successfully. Here’s a link to the CP1 Piano download:
http://download.yamaha.com/file/60662

Very odd indeed.  Thanks so much for your time and trying to help.  I took a picture and you were right the error is “Sample memory full”.

I went ahead and ordered a XF6 which will be my second official Motif (I previously owned an ES8).  I’m looking forward to having both my flash boards in the new XF6 with the Chick Corea Rhodes on one and the CS-80 sounds on the other.  My goal would be to copy/restore my songs created on the MOXF to the new XF as well as accomplish the aforementioned loading of the Chick/CS-80.  Any insights or tips on accomplishing all that is much appreciated (new threads?).  I think my biggest concern which I can’t find any info on is transferring my songs to the XF (which all use the default sounds that came with the MOXF - no user samples or anything).

Thanks again,

Chris