I’d like to raise a question that has already been asked here - more than a decade ago - in conjunction with other Motifs. However, I’d like to pick up the same topic again, just related to the MOXF.

As my beloved AKG K-240 Monitor Headphones (a 25 year old model still with 600 Ohms) are mechanically broken, I’m planning to buy replacement cans which are suitable for normal monitoring/mastering as well as for connecting directly to my MOXF8.

Even with that high impedance, the old K-240 headphones really sounded great when plugged to the MOXF. There was just enough power available to drive them up to a convenient listening level. However, somehow I felt that there was no more headroom available in order to listen very carefully to quiet music sections where a little bit more phones output would have been required.

I had the chance to try the AKG K-712 Pro cans in the studio of a friend of mine. These phones really sound amazing, and I think they might also be a perfect choice for the replacement I’m looking for to use in my home studio. Being an Austrian, I also have to support great companies like AKG (and of course Bösendorfer which belongs to the Yamaha group meanwhile) ;-)

Unfortunately I couldn’t try the K-712 Pro phones directly on the MOXF yet. However, I’ve read somewhere that the Motif XF is providing a headphone output impedance of 32 Ohms, but I don’t know if the same applies to the MOXF8. If so, I guess the more the impedance of the headphones match the MOXF impedance, the lesser any disturbing side-effects will be noticeable. As the K-712 Pro features an impedance of 62 Ohms, I hope this might be still within an acceptable range; for electric adaption as well as for getting higher output signals on the MOXF than before, right?

Maybe you can share your thoughts and correct me if I’m barking up the wrong tree. Thanks in advance.

B.Minor - 14 October 2014 04:48 PM

...Unfortunately I couldn’t try the K-712 Pro phones directly on the MOXF yet. However, I’ve read somewhere that the Motif XF is providing a headphone output impedance of 32 Ohms, but I don’t know if the same applies to the MOXF8. If so, I guess the more the impedance of the headphones match the MOXF impedance, the lesser any disturbing side-effects will be noticeable. As the K-712 Pro features an impedance of 62 Ohms, I hope this might be still within an acceptable range; for electric adaption as well as for getting higher output signals on the MOXF than before, right?

Maybe you can share your thoughts and correct me if I’m barking up the wrong tree. Thanks in advance.

I am not sure if the MOXF has the same 32 Ohms impedance as the the XF, but it is probably very similar.

If so, then a set of headphones rated at 62 Ohms should be perfectly fine...and you should see a significant performance upgrade from your previous high impedance phones.

There are others here with a much better working knowledge of such things than I have, but my personal experience with various headphones (with various impedance ratings) used with my XF is the basis for the above information.

I was using Koss K/6LC headphones(Circa 1972) that have individual volume controls with my XF, but I was using “Songsterr Tabs” through my firewire and there is no volume control and it blew a speaker on the right side of the headphones and no replacement available.
cmayhle, what headphones are you using with your XF?

B.Minor - 14 October 2014 04:48 PM

[...]However, I’ve read somewhere that the Motif XF is providing a headphone output impedance of 32 Ohms, but I don’t know if the same applies to the MOXF8. If so, I guess the more the impedance of the headphones match the MOXF impedance, the lesser any disturbing side-effects will be noticeable. As the K-712 Pro features an impedance of 62 Ohms, I hope this might be still within an acceptable range; for electric adaption as well as for getting higher output signals on the MOXF than before, right?

Maybe you can share your thoughts and correct me if I’m barking up the wrong tree. Thanks in advance.

The Classic and ES had headphone output impedance of 50 ohms, the XS and XF 33 ohms. I agree with cmayhle that the MOXF likely has similar impedance to the XS/XF. All other things being equal, phones that match that impedance will have maximum output (SPL). However, in the real world “all other things” are rarely equal, and there are other considerations than output level.

This thread might help with your decision. (It might not seem relevant at first, but it gets around to it eventually.  :-) )

robinvt - 14 October 2014 06:37 PM

...cmayhle, what headphones are you using with your XF?

I use a number of different headphones, some rather expensive and some rather inexpensive.

For keyboard monitoring (not critical recording), I would recommend something like These (32 Ohms).  I really don’t think you need to pay a bunch for this type of use...I even have a pair of These (32 Ohms), and they work just great!

If someone wants to pay $100 or $250 for headphones, that’s fine too, you could get a pair that covers both keyboard monitoring and studio recording duty

I think the important thing is to pay attention to impedance matching (relatively speaking) and a straight cord (definitely a preference I have while playing).

Thank you, Sirs! Appreciate the inputs and links you provided!

Skipping through the linked articles, I guess I’m just ending up somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, one saying that device output and phone impedances should match each other as close as possible, the other opinion recommending that the device output impedance should be less than 1/8 of the headphone impedance. Although that sounds somehow contradictory at first, I’ll take it.

When it comes to the use of cheap headphones, I don’t have any good experiences while working with synthesizers, as IMHO I was never able to listen to all those little nuances (voice frequency, tone, pan, room...) which could already be adjusted or fine-tuned while arranging, even long before any recording or mixing stage had to be entered. Of course I’m aware of the fact that headphones can never replace good studio monitors, but they are very nice to dig into some issues you want to sort out in advance.

As my personal conclusion, I think with my choice picking the AKG phones - featuring 62 Ohms - I can’t go really wrong, as they can be driven by studio equipment, by synthesizers/sound modules like the MOXF, by PC sound cards and even by portable music devices which may require impedances below 80 Ohms in order to get outputs which are still acceptable. As the MOXF was still able to drive my old 600 Ohms phones, I guess in terms of impedances I won’t have any problems there with my choice. And as long as these cans will still sound as great as they already did when plugged to studio equipment, I’ll be more than happy. However, I guess I’ll have to try them directly on the MOXF before purchasing…

Thanks again for your help and your contribution.

B.Minor - 15 October 2014 03:02 AM

[...]Skipping through the linked articles, I guess I’m just ending up somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, one saying that device output and phone impedances should match each other as close as possible, the other opinion recommending that the device output impedance should be less than 1/8 of the headphone impedance. Although that sounds somehow contradictory at first, I’ll take it.

There’s really no contradiction. As I said, matching the impedance provides maximum output from a particular headphone. However, headphone impedance is not a constant across the frequency spectrum, and variations in impedance can lead to variations in frequency response. Therefore, choosing phone impedance is a trade-off between output level and frequency response smoothness. If you’re concerned about both, look for phones that have as little impedance variation as possible, and are sufficiently low in impedance and high in efficiency/sensitivity so that the output level (SPL) is what you need.

 

B.Minor -

[...]However, I guess I’ll have to try them directly on the MOXF before purchasing…

Yes, in the final analysis, that’s what really matters.

Can someone advise if Sennheiser HD 280 PRO Circumaural, Pro Studio Headphones would be a good match with the XF?

Tech Specs
Open/Closed Closed
Fit Style Circumaural (Around the Ear)
Frequency Response 8Hz-25kHz
Impedance 64 ohms
Cable Length 9.8 ft.
Cable Type Coiled
Replaceable Cable Yes
Plug Size 1/8” (1/4” Adapter Included)
Weight .49 lbs.
Manufacturer Part Number 004974

I could suggest Yamaha RH10MS.
I’m using it since I bought ES, than Racks XS and now MOXF (still have all of them :).
When I have tried MOXF at the store for the first time, I was a little bit disappointed.
But, I realized that guy at store have told me that their headphones has some problem.
Next day I came with mine RH10MS and wow! Sound thrilled me and I bough MOXF6.

Alex

How long have you owned them?

robinvt - 16 October 2014 11:21 PM

How long have you owned them?

Probably for a while, those headphones are no longer available.

robinvt , the phones you profiled would most likely work great with the keyboard.

robinvt - 16 October 2014 11:21 PM

How long have you owned them?

About 4yrs. And it looks and work like I have bought them yesterday.

Alex

What is the price of these headphones?  I can’t seem to find a price online, even from the Yamaha site.

As I mentioned above, the RH10MS headphones are no longer available.

Really?  What did they replace them with?  They are still listed on the Yamaha site.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/accessories/headphones/rh10ms/?mode=model

You will find that Yamaha retains web pages for a large number of discontinued products.