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Viewing topic "Yamaha’s SCM on CP4 vs MOXF8 for best piano experience?"

   
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Posted on: September 11, 2014 @ 01:19 PM
abdol
Total Posts:  318
Joined  05-29-2012
status: Enthusiast

I spent money for the cp4,and a spent money for the rd800.(it seems you didn’t spent some money for them,but spent more for your utube connection)

It seems you’re internet connection is very poor or you haven’t read my post properly.

You can listen to good quality recorded audio on soundcloud just in case your audio equipments don’t sound good. I audited both keyboards in the store as I stated above. You’re free to believe whatever you believe in that doesn’t change anything.
I don’t need to prove anything to you nor anyone else here there is enough material online that I can post them here to help other people (as I can’t go everyday to a store and ask the shop clerk to record the audio on the keyboard) but you can post copies of your performance if you have the keyboard and show off you wealth and talent and awesome keyboards here to everyone else.

I’m a poor guy who can’t afford those but at least my contribution is more than just a claim. There are useful material and I assure you both of the keyboards sound almost the same as the recording on the ”soundcloud” which is very close to my ears. I don’t have to prove myself to you then again don’t think everyone will agree with you hope you get it at some point in your life.

The SCM to me, sounded like a DSP tweak (as I said before).

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Posted on: September 11, 2014 @ 02:05 PM
lekanout
Total Posts:  82
Joined  07-19-2007
status: Experienced

dsetto:
Thanks for your kind words:-)

If you already have a sense of the difference, could you try to put it in words?

It´s not so easy because of my(non english)native language.

You know,during the last years i was lucky to play on stage with kronos,stage 2,motif xf,kurzweil pc3k8...roland rd..and all motifs..

When i’m playing a keyboard,i ‘m always trying to understand how the keybed and engine respond.

I never try to think only about “how the sample react"but “how can i exprim this keyboard”
So i’m practise a lot(hours and hours"and after 1 month i can feel naturally the sound and keybed connection and the way to feel it with my fingers.

So many people analyse the samples...i can’t do that.
Maybe it’s because i’m essentially a live player...and on stage it ‘s not like in studio where you’re free to listen your sound.

My vision about piano sound is for the styles i play:
rock/pop/funk/blues/soul(60/70 oriented)
I practised a lot the cp4 during the summer,and found my way easily.
I love the keybed..the response(factory config) was ok for me.
I spent a lot of time to program the eps..i was so good..
The factory pianos sounds very good and i didn’t make so much modification.

A friend of mîne told me to try the moxf8.
I did that,and it was a very good surprise because i found it really pleasant to find all i loved in my ex-motif xf without much compromise.
I played a lot the pianos,and while they are less bigger than the cp4 grand,they just sounds right.
I always know they will fit perfectly some little gigs on little places because of the weight(14kg is a good perf)

the moxf8 keybed is plastic,but quite usable.
I have to play it more before telling you more,i will take it tomorrow and have to practise a lot before telling you more.

But,i’m the kind of guy who refuse to analyse (like an obsession)to give a chance to every keyboard without analyse modelisation parameters or sample size.

In fact,if you want to tweak modelisation parameters,buy the roland.
The cp4 is poor in parameters.(less than the cp1/cp5 for engine access).
Take it like a simple great stage piano,with a very good sound.
Just listen the 3 piano samples,and if you like it take it like a traditional very goodrompler stage piano.
You don´t have so much to do with modelisation.

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Posted on: September 11, 2014 @ 02:14 PM
lekanout
Total Posts:  82
Joined  07-19-2007
status: Experienced

in that doesn’t change anything.
I don’t need to prove anything to you nor anyone else here there is enough material online that I can post them here to help other people (as I can’t go everyday to a store and ask the shop clerk to record the audio on the keyboard) but you can post copies of your performance if you have the keyboard and show off you wealth and talent and awesome keyboards here to everyone else.

Typically the kind of thing i don’t care:
I don’t need to prove you something buy recording my performance,it .s for me a loose of time.
I prefer practising the songs i have to practise for the band who wants to play with me:-))

Typically a sterile forum attitude i absolutly don’t want to have..

Consider your sound vision like you want,no problem follow your way.
But don’t be too much hard with yamaha pianos.
If so many pro musicians are playing all over the world these sounds,that’s mean something.

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Posted on: September 12, 2014 @ 06:05 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  402
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

lekanout, thanks for your direct comparison of the acoustic pianos between the MOXF8 & CP4. Looking forward to your thoughts after spending time with the MOXF8 acoustic pianos.

If anybody has a sense of what I am trying to ask in this thread, and can ask it better, I could use the help.

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Posted on: September 12, 2014 @ 06:07 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  402
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

Has anyone personally compared a 3rd party acoustic piano on a Motif XF8/XS8 or MOXF8 with a CP4 acoustic piano? If so, any thoughts, other than action differences?

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Posted on: September 12, 2014 @ 06:26 AM
abdol
Total Posts:  318
Joined  05-29-2012
status: Enthusiast

So many people analyse the samples...i can’t do that.
Maybe it’s because i’m essentially a live player...and on stage it ‘s not like in studio where you’re free to listen your sound.

This basically summarized the whole thing…

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Posted on: September 14, 2014 @ 12:52 AM
lekanout
Total Posts:  82
Joined  07-19-2007
status: Experienced

Dsetto:

I’ve played a lot my new MOXF8 since 2 days:
All i can say to you is:
-the moxf engine can’t compare for pianos the CP4 expression and keybed.
It´s a good synth,very pleasant to play(and far more than the cp4 for all the rest)but the cp4 is a better pianist connection.
More subtile to play..

Abdol:

I’m a poor guy who can’t afford those but at least my contribution is more than just a claim. There are useful material and I assure you both of the keyboards sound almost the same as the recording on the ”soundcloud” which is very close to my ears. I don’t have to prove myself to you then again don’t think everyone will agree with you hope you get it at some point in your life.

This basically summarized the whole thing…

I don’t want to seems superior to you because i am lucky to play with so many synths.
I know it’s difficult to play good music,to have all the synths you want to afford...etc.
We are musician,music is a battle.
I’m always devoted to encourage people,and my friends..to keep energy to play more..etc etc.

The problem isn’t the fact you can’t have a point of view with utube or souncloud.
It’s ok for that.

But let the power to the player:
-Having and playing a keyboards hours and hours,is a far more deep experience(do you consider that?).

The same on stage:
When you are in stage bad conditions,i can tell you a bad keyboard is out.
For me,stage conditions are a kind of truth.
And don’t forget the soundcloud soundtest mean nothing on stage because an enginner control your sound,dynamic...etc etc
They are so many parameters to understand.
How many players in the world are playing music in the soundcloud conditions studio recording?
Every synth now can sounds good on soundcloud today.

Honestly i didin’t understand why you were so agressive with me,and why you said bad words like i’m ignorant about the rd800(for exemple..while i spent some hours to program the supernatural pianos and eps on it)

So come on abdol,don’t be so hard with the cp series from yamaha!
That’s the only problem between us.
No matter what you like or not,but saying on this forum the cp series are “crap"is a kind of provocation for all the proffesionnal and non-proffessional users who have so much good music to play with it.

You can see with my attachment what i’ve done some days ago with my Rd800 for exemple.
Do you think an ignorant can do that?
(all my live sets on stage are designed by me,it’s never a factory live set...and the same with the CP4)
:-)

Image Attachments
image.jpg
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Posted on: September 17, 2014 @ 02:32 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  402
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

lekanout, my overall sentiments comparing the CP4 vs MOXF8 strictly for the piano experience are like yours, favoring the CP4. This weekend I tore my ACL playing soccer too hard. So, more than ever, I’m preferring the sub 40lb category for a performance instrument.

I remain curious about how the acoustic piano sound engine of the CP4 differs from that of the XF/XS/MOXF series. If anyone with some input on this reads this down the line, I’d be glad to hear what you can share. (I’ve even become curious about the scarcity of information on this topic, ;)

Regardless of this curioisity, I favor the CP4 because of my positive response to the action married to a capable sound engine, that together get me the various piano experiences I connect with, in a lightweight package.

And I remain grateful to Yamaha for the existence of a multitude of products that fit all sorts of my wants. And, I am grateful to all the other instrument (and software instrument) companies as well. (I am not looking for a Yamaha vs “other” thread here. I have attempted to keep this thread focused, so that I (& others interested) can get info on this one subject, that I have not found elsewhere, yet.)

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Posted on: September 18, 2014 @ 11:15 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  402
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

One AP-centric difference that I discovered between the CP4 & XF sound engines is how the CP4 handles fine tuning. The following is my take on this. It relies on my memory of my recent time with the CP4 and I could be wrong in my assessment.

On the XF, when you adjust the fine tuning, the entire waveform, as a set, is adjusted. So, if you only have one piano waveform being triggered at one given time, after adjusting the fine tuning away from 0, you won’t make the waveform sound out of tune with itself at that exact moment. (This is assuming there’s no LFO adjusting pitch set up.)

On the CP4, when you adjust the fine tuning, I believe, somehow, the sense of the piano not being well in tune is brought in. But, now I forget if it was relative to one pitch at a given moment (like multiple strings on one note), or relative to two different pitches at a given moment (2 different notes not being well in tune), or relative to the same or different pitches at different moments (LFO-like).

Regarding the quality of this CP4 pitch fine tune. In my opinion, while adjusting it, & on playback of a recording, I think I can tell it’s digitally derived. However, it can still be musical, both used subtly and even excessively. Sometimes it feels like a subtle (or not so subtle depending upon amount used) chorus effect. And, to me, it’s an important parameter for customization.

In my opinion, I believe a user configurable sampled-based piano like the XF8/XS8/MOXF8 beats the CP4 for tasty tuning, & the CP4 will most likely always be what it is, as it is. But, my stance between the two remains in spite of this.

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Posted on: September 18, 2014 @ 11:29 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  402
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

A similar argument between the two can be made regarding sense of space.  And this is why, within the Yamaha stable, there is a unique place for each the CP4, MOXF8, and the XF8.

re: my thoughts on AP simulation.
1. CP4: best action, satisfying engine, nice ready to use CFX set. overall winner.

2. XF8: most customizable sound, with satisfying action. (no 3rd sensor, but, in my opinion, not needed because key return is faster than on the CP4, which I think benefits from the 3rd sensor.) A close 2nd to CP4. But loses in AP simulation on action. But, it’s not trying to be solely an AP. It’s a weighted-key synthesizer-sampling workstation that can successfully do all sorts of things, including likely getting real close to a portable piano.

3. MOXF8: lighter, less expensive, smaller alternative to the XF8, with poorer, yet surely respectable action as compared to the XF8, but with the bonus of a nod to graded hammer feel.  I believe if I only played the MOXF8 and nothing else for days, I would tune-in to its unique niche of XF8 capabilities under 40lbs, for less. Only then could I give a better report on the MOXF8 action. I still have not spent much time on the MOXF8 to report fairly & balanced on it. But, also, I don’t think I need to, as currently I value touch over satisfyingly customizable pitch & space; the latter being the MOXF8’s strength.

..
The XF8/MOXF8 can do so many more things. Having an XF7 affects my equation. If I didn’t own and connect so well with my XF7, and I was starting from scratch right now, the XF8 would rate higher for me.

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Posted on: September 18, 2014 @ 12:33 PM
benoit
Total Posts:  173
Joined  08-19-2009
status: Pro

Hi
Also it´s worth mentioning that in a yamaha synth/ stage piano you get samples from different yamaha pianos models. Roland samples Steinway pianos, most probably.

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Posted on: September 18, 2014 @ 01:04 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3067
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
dsetto - 09 September 2014 08:29 AM

...I am comparing the Yamaha CP4 to a Yamaha MOXF8 to complement my Motif XF7....

I can’t comment on the technical nuances of the sample vs. modelling stuff...I simply don’t have the engineering background for that...but it doesn’t matter to me, as I know what I like when I hear it (as others have stated).

I own both the XF8 and the CP4 (among other machines), and although approximately a year ago when the CP4 first came out I had a real problem with the hard-strike samples on a few specific notes (See This Thread), I bought one and have absolutely no regrets about the purchase.

The samples in question still bug me, but I have learned how to mitigate them in the CP4 setup...and really the rest of the CP4 sound and playing experience is so excellent I admit is helps me overlook the flaw.

I would recommend you keep the XF7 and compliment it with the CP4...for your acoustic piano playing if for nothing else

I am not the only native piano player who believes you would then own one of the best two-keyboard set-ups you could have.

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Posted on: September 20, 2014 @ 01:47 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  252
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

As a CP4 and XF7 owner, I was harshly critcized by several participants of an Italian forum. Perhaps they were just envious or think a stage piano must necessarily be heavy.
CP4 is a perfect compromise between good, if not very good, piano sounds, masterkeyboard functions and lightness.
I usually play both CP4 alone, that’s a great pleasure, or use its weighted keyboard to drive XF7 piano sounds, both internal and from third party (big thanks to Keven Spargo who did an excellent job creating Epic Grand among others).
As far as I can see, every instrument has its precise role and it’s thought for it. Don’t ask a stage piano being a workstation and vice versa. Thus a MOXF can’t compete with CP4 both for its keyboard action and its piano sounds. On the other hand a MOXF is a full fledged modern workstation that does tons of things a CP4 can just dream of.

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Posted on: March 05, 2018 @ 06:27 AM
TAE
Total Posts:  8
Joined  10-10-2009
status: Newcomer

Lekanout

You are a VERY patient dude.  Having the opportunity to actually work in the Music Marketing side of the business gives clarity to the smoke n mirrors hype that is the nature of the beast of marketing and sales.

Your arguments and explanations as to why you wanted to go with the moxf8 even though you own a CP4 were great.

When someone comes in and blatantly and naively states that the yamaha piano sounds suck that is drawing a line in the sand and saying cross over it and we have a fight...Which is exactly what happened...You were very patient and very polite in trying to let him know that in the end it is a subjective thing, fords and chevys. And for that elequent response you were rewarded with more piss and vinegar.

Gotta kind of wonder what a Yamaha hater is doing in the Motif community.

Loved your analogy of being a little kid getting your new MOXF8...I so get that..I’m a hack player that LOVES playing. If i put two different keyboards next to each other and play them both I may enjoy playing one over the other but I can get joy out of playing a pretty crappy piano if that’s all that is available...piano snobs...pffft!

I own the older mox8 and LOVE IT! I also own a Nord Electro 4 and Oh My God it is like night and day listening to the piano sounds of the electro vs the Mox, the yamaha piano sounds are soooooo much nicer (subjectively speaking ;) ) that said....I can live with playing the Nord if my MOX isn’t around..

Just wanted to say I think you dealt with the hater pretty well...All the best!

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Posted on: July 16, 2018 @ 07:51 PM
Dionysos
Total Posts:  38
Joined  01-07-2018
status: Regular

So today 2018 would you still say I am fine with MoxF8 which I bought due to revviews/commentaries (liking it to be an economic version of the Motif)?

I am a piano composer so some might say I ought to buy the cp4 but I got from cp5 over dgx660 (ok easy apart from some hurdles) to the Moxf8.

My objective is to be an advanced all around composer, and I find dgx660 to limit me in that.

Any words? Please no sales talk without heart. I want an easy way of making music and I want the sound to be great. I have found the moxf8 acoustic sound to be crappy on some lukas nano 300 pa. But on the headphones not so bad.

Please any commentaries to make me know whether my choice was good or bad. I am new to synths but I like the synth sounds and find them necessary to my music. But also I am a simple musician who likes simplicity and a superb sound.

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