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Viewing topic "Which MOXF voices respond to aftertouch?"

     
Posted on: June 15, 2014 @ 03:57 PM
shad0wfax
Total Posts:  36
Joined  07-08-2013
status: Regular

Hi all,

I bought a MOXF6 some months ago and I’m really pleased with it; it has certainly a great (if not the best) value for money of all currently available synths.

As we all know, the MOXF’s keyboard has velocity but not aftertouch. But as long as the synthesizer has the same synthesis engine and voices as the Motif XF, I assume that at least some of the voices do respond to aftertouch midi messages. I still keep an old Yamaha V50, which has a really great keyboard action (for my taste) and aftertouch. So I could use the V50 to control MOXF’s voices that respond to aftertouch. The point is: Is there a list or something in orter to know which MOXF/Motif XF voices are programmed to respond to aftertouch? Or maybe the only way is by testing them one by one?

Thanks in advance!

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Posted on: June 15, 2014 @ 04:26 PM
Bad_Mister
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The point is: Is there a list or something in orter to know which MOXF/Motif XF voices are programmed to respond to aftertouch? Or maybe the only way is by testing them one by one?

The point really is any VOICE can be programmed to respond to Aftertouch. You could test them all one by one, but only if you don’t know about that you can program any Voice you want to respond to Aftertouch. Testing them one at at time is certainly one way to find those already programmed to respond. But you probably have better things to do with your time. Instead of going through them, learn how to program whatever you want to control in whatever voice you want to control it.

You program AFTERTOUCH (AT) same as you would most controllers, per a Voice.
Call up the Voice
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON]
Press [F4] CTL SET (CONTROL SET)
Here you’ll find six control sets accessible via the [SF1]-[SF3]
The SOURCE = the physical controller! (PB, RB, MW, FC, FS, AF, AT, AS, BC)
The DESTINATION is one of some 101 controllable parameters
The DEPTH is how much is applied by movement of the controller
The ELEMENT SWITCHES are accessible only on a Destination that allows for individual Element assignment

Choosing a Destination parameter requires some thought to get usable results… You are not, however, prevented from applying it in a nonsensical manner… So choose wisely.

Assigning it to something like volume has to be done with some thought, because velocity is also typically assigned to volume output. If you want to control entirely the level of a Voice or an Element with AT, you would need to program the initial level of the Voice or Element to 0, and then only when AT is applied will the volume increase in volume output.

AT is always applying 0 through 127, to reverse this the Depth parameter can be set to a negative value so that as you increase you reduce the value from its normal setting.

Assigning it to Coarse Tune can allow you change pitch of the Voice via AT.
Assigning it to Pitch Modulation Depth will allow you to apply it as vibrato.
And so on.

An example of AT bending Coarse tune is the harmonica Voice: PRE5:032(B16) Woody Harp

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Posted on: June 16, 2014 @ 01:05 PM
shad0wfax
Total Posts:  36
Joined  07-08-2013
status: Regular

Thank you very much for your quick, detailed and comprehensive reply :)

Actually, though, my question was simpler. I already suspected that any voice could be programmed to respond to aftertouch, but I simply wanted to know if there’s a list or something of preset voices already programmed to respond to aftertouch. I remember that in some old FM synths, and in the SY35, for example, the voice list in the user’s manual already stated which voices responded to aftertouch (and even if it affected the pitch, the amplitude, or whatever), and I wanted to know if there was something simmilar regarding the MOXF / Motif XF.

Thanks again!

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Posted on: June 16, 2014 @ 01:56 PM
Bad_Mister
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I simply wanted to know if there’s a list or something of preset voices already programmed to respond to aftertouch.

No.

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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 03:38 AM
shad0wfax
Total Posts:  36
Joined  07-08-2013
status: Regular

Ok, I see. It’s a pity, because I think it’s a very valuable information (especially if you own a synth like the MOXF, with a keyboard with no aftertouch but with lots (?) of voices that do respond to it), and it would be very little effort for Yamaha to put an asterisk or something in the voice list to mark the voices with aftertouch sensitivity. (Maybe also for other controllers which the MOXF lacks, such as the ribbon).

Maybe I’ll make my own list when I’ve got enough spare time.

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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 10:11 AM
Bad_Mister
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You do that.

I believe I gave you half of Voices assigned to respond to AT. The other half of the list appears below:

“Voxdance AF1/2” PRE9:097(G01)

At least as far as I’ve found. There might be others… They are Easter Eggs, you must hunt for them.
:-)

Aftertouch is one of those synth parameters that is an acquired taste. The number of pure piano players that try synths and trigger AT 90-100% of the time, make it a rarely assigned controller. That’s why I suggested its something if you know about and can use it, assign it as you desire. I can remember back in DX7 days the only thing that outnumbered the calls about the “Train” Voice where AT brought up the volume of steam engine, was why the “Trumpet BC” Voice was silent. Controller assignments can be esoteric and tricky.

I agree, the programmers probably don’t realize the value of the descriptions you mention… Often HOW to approach playing a Voice is under valued. I think that it was not included because the feeling is, not only is it a lot of work, but that few read the documentation anyway. I personally think it would be compelling reading and find that sometimes to understand a Voice, a brief description opens new possibilities.

Just FYI: many times the controller is mentioned in the name of the Voice to alert the user that it is programmed to do something. It’s not always the case but often enough.

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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 12:09 PM
5pinDIN
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shad0wfax - 17 June 2014 03:38 AM

[...] Maybe I’ll make my own list when I’ve got enough spare time.

Attached is a zipped list of factory Voices based on the Motif XF. I’ve included all that have AfterTouch in their Controller Set, including those where it appears but is turned OFF (noted in the list).

Some of the Voice names in the XF and MOXF are slightly different - for example, “AT” in the XF name might be removed from the MOXF name. I suspect that was done because the MOXF keyboard doesn’t have AT capability, and probably the Voice will respond to AT via MIDI.

In several cases what the AT does is subtle.

File Attachments
XF Factory Voices with AT.zip  (File Size: 2KB - Downloads: 420)
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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 01:30 PM
shad0wfax
Total Posts:  36
Joined  07-08-2013
status: Regular

Attached is a zipped list of factory Voices based on the Motif XF. I’ve included all that have AfterTouch in their Controller Set, including those where it appears but is turned OFF (noted in the list)

Great! Thank you very much! I’ve read the list and I find it quite surprising that there are not many voices with AT sensitivity, considering that there are 1000+ presets. At least there’s one of my absolute favourites, “Breakback Mountain” :)

It’s curious that my Roland V-Synth XT is quite the opposite, as nearly all voices respond to aftertouch.

I agree, the programmers probably don’t realize the value of the descriptions you mention… Often HOW to approach playing a Voice is under valued. I think that it was not included because the feeling is, not only is it a lot of work, but that few read the documentation anyway. I personally think it would be compelling reading and find that sometimes to understand a Voice, a brief description opens new possibilities.

Yes, I totally agree, the playing technique can make the same voice to sound totally different… A brief description about the voice is a very valuable info… This was something quite common back in the old days (80s and early 90s), but current synths have so many presets that manufacturers prefer to give only a “raw” list.

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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 01:40 PM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

Since your Mo XF’s keyboard does not send aftertouch, it wouldn’t matter if a voice is programmed to respond to AT or not. Just sayin’…

There is a “reason” aftertouch is not programmed into many voices. And it’s the same reason I rarely implement it in my own (DCP) voice libraries. People who hit the keys hard (and that’s a lot of users) will trigger the aftertouch and think there’s something wrong with the voice. That, and personally I hate aftertouch implementation anyway, I much prefer the mod wheel, being an old school Minimoog/B3 organ kind of guy.

It’s been a matter of policy four Yamaha programmers for many years not to implement aftertouch in programming, with rare exceptions.

You can always edit a voice yourself and reroute modulation to respond to aftertouch as a controller, if you want.

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Posted on: June 17, 2014 @ 03:17 PM
5pinDIN
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shad0wfax - 17 June 2014 01:30 PM

Attached is a zipped list of factory Voices based on the Motif XF. I’ve included all that have AfterTouch in their Controller Set, including those where it appears but is turned OFF (noted in the list)

Great! Thank you very much! I’ve read the list and I find it quite surprising that there are not many voices with AT sensitivity, considering that there are 1000+ presets. At least there’s one of my absolute favourites, “Breakback Mountain” :)

It’s curious that my Roland V-Synth XT is quite the opposite, as nearly all voices respond to aftertouch.

You’re welcome. Hopefully it will help when using your V50 as a controller. Of course, you can customize the MOXF Voices - including taking into account the V50’s AT characteristics, since AT response varies from one model to another.

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Posted on: June 18, 2014 @ 08:59 AM
shad0wfax
Total Posts:  36
Joined  07-08-2013
status: Regular
DavePolich - 17 June 2014 01:40 PM

Since your Mo XF’s keyboard does not send aftertouch, it wouldn’t matter if a voice is programmed to respond to AT or not. Just sayin’…

Well, that’s why MIDI exists ;) Otherwise things like synth modules (or “tone generators”, as Yamaha likes to label them) wouldn’t make sense…

I understand that there’s no point in programming voices with aftertouch in a synth that doesn’t have AT, but as long as the MOXF’s voices are borrowed from the Motif XF, and the XF has AT, I suspected that at least some of them would make use of it. On the other hand, Yamaha has a long history of synths with AT capable keyboards and sounds that take advantage from this.

I concede that AT is a matter of taste, but I confess that I like it, because it lets you control some parameters of the sound without having to use one hand for it. For instance, you mention the B3; some synths use the modulation wheel for controlling the speed of the rotary speaker, but then you can only play with one hand. I prefer being able to control it and switch between fast and slow speed while playing with both hands.

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Posted on: June 18, 2014 @ 10:55 AM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6820
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru
shad0wfax - 18 June 2014 08:59 AM
DavePolich - 17 June 2014 01:40 PM

Since your Mo XF’s keyboard does not send aftertouch, it wouldn’t matter if a voice is programmed to respond to AT or not. Just sayin’…

Well, that’s why MIDI exists ;) Otherwise things like synth modules (or “tone generators”, as Yamaha likes to label them) wouldn’t make sense…

I understand that there’s no point in programming voices with aftertouch in a synth that doesn’t have AT, but as long as the MOXF’s voices are borrowed from the Motif XF, and the XF has AT, I suspected that at least some of them would make use of it. On the other hand, Yamaha has a long history of synths with AT capable keyboards and sounds that take advantage from this.

I concede that AT is a matter of taste, but I confess that I like it, because it lets you control some parameters of the sound without having to use one hand for it. For instance, you mention the B3; some synths use the modulation wheel for controlling the speed of the rotary speaker, but then you can only play with one hand. I prefer being able to control it and switch between fast and slow speed while playing with both hands.

And “some” of the Motif XF voices do implement AT. Those voices were ported to the Mo XF because the Mo XF has the XF’s soundest.

Have to disagree with you on AT controlling rotary speaker speed. Real B3’s had no aftertouch, if you wanted to control Leslie speed without removing your hands you used
a footswitch that you rigged up. Most B3 players were comfortable with using the “half moon” Leslie switch attached to the lower left portion of the front of the organ. The problem with implementing AT for Leslie speed is that (for me) it interferes with your
actual playing because you have to press down on the keys while simultaneously playing
your part. And like I said, it’s not authentic.

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Posted on: February 21, 2022 @ 02:59 PM
imrantv
Total Posts:  1
Joined  02-01-2021
status: Newcomer
Bad_Mister - 15 June 2014 04:26 PM



You program AFTERTOUCH (AT) same as you would most controllers, per a Voice.
Call up the Voice
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON]
Press [F4] CTL SET (CONTROL SET)
Here you’ll find six control sets accessible via the [SF1]-[SF3]
The SOURCE = the physical controller! (PB, RB, MW, FC, FS, AF, AT, AS, BC)
The DESTINATION is one of some 101 controllable parameters
The DEPTH is how much is applied by movement of the controller
The ELEMENT SWITCHES are accessible only on a Destination that allows for individual Element assignment

Very interesting and useful thread and info.

Curious about what may be current decent/inexpensive MIDI keyboards with AfterTouch to play into a DAW like Logic Pro targeting the MOXF8 or other AT-capable non-AT keyboard synths in your opinion(s).

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