I use Performances to record into a Song. Sometimes as I’m recording the chord progression, I’m a bit late hitting the next chord, and I get a tiny little bit of the previous chord at the start of the bar. This doesn’t sound good when I play it back.

Is there some quick and easy way (a Job? Cubase?) to delete these? Something I can set to avoid it happening in the first place?

I’m assuming there are arpeggios involved… You can be anything but late when conducting chord intelligent content. The parameter “Arp Sync Quantize Value” can be set to a value like a sixteenth note (120 clock ticks) this will cause the next Arp phrase to begin at the nearest (next) 16th note. But again you can be anything but late (translation = you should anticipate the downbeat slightly). The reason you can be early is because typically you will have the CHANGE TIMING parameter set to “measure” meaning your Arp phrases will change at the NEXT measure, so feeding the chord in will alert the technology where it need to go next.

With Arp Sync Quantize Value = 16th note that’s plenty of time to play the chord before the beat. It does not quantize the rest of the data like the Quantize Job, it only positions the beginning of the phrase… The timing and spacing of the phrase is what it is.

From PERFORMANCE mode
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON EDIT]
Press [F1] GENERAL
Press [SF4] OTHER
Set Arp Sync Quantize Value = 16th note (120)

There are arps involved.

I see your point, and will now remember to be a bit early when I hit those chords.

Bad_Mister - 08 June 2014 04:38 PM

I’m assuming there are arpeggios involved… You can be anything but late when conducting chord intelligent content. The parameter “Arp Sync Quantize Value” can be set to a value like a sixteenth note (120 clock ticks) this will cause the next Arp phrase to begin at the nearest (next) 16th note. But again you can be anything but late (translation = you should anticipate the downbeat slightly). The reason you can be early is because typically you will have the CHANGE TIMING parameter set to “measure” meaning your Arp phrases will change at the NEXT measure, so feeding the chord in will alert the technology where it need to go next.

With Arp Sync Quantize Value = 16th note that’s plenty of time to play the chord before the beat. It does not quantize the rest of the data like the Quantize Job, it only positions the beginning of the phrase… The timing and spacing of the phrase is what it is.

From PERFORMANCE mode
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON EDIT]
Press [F1] GENERAL
Press [SF4] OTHER
Set Arp Sync Quantize Value = 16th note (120)

I’ve been trying this, but it doesn’t seem to be working for me.

I’m using this performance: Desert Drive (4ARP), USR4:095(F15).

I set Arp Sync Quantize Value to 480, to give me the maximum possible time. I turned on ARP Only for all four voices. I set Change Timing to measure for all four voices.

Here’s the problem: when I hit the next chord (just before the end of the bar), I hear the chord right when I play it, and the ARP shifts to the new chord right away. It seems like none of the settings I made has taken effect.

Is there something special about this particular Performance? Is there something else I need to set to get this to work?

Here’s another thing I thought of: is there some way that I can record the actual chords I’m playing, and then use those as input to the ARPs? If I could do that, I would then be able to go back and edit places where I got the timing wrong.

Michael Trigoboff - 11 June 2014 02:32 PM

I set Change Timing to measure for all four voices.

I figured out what this setting does: it controls when the arpeggios switch, for instance if you’re playing in ARP1 and you hit the ARP2 button.

This has nothing to do with what I’m trying to figure out.

Controlling four Parts of a Performance is like the juggler trying to add that extra bowling pin, it is just about all you can handle sometimes.
:-) Here are a few tips that can help you.

The Drums are easy they just provide you with the groove and tempo. Once you trigger them to start they just play and lay down the groove. It is the other three Parts (Bass, E.Piano, and Guitar) that are the juggling act.

Depending on what you are playing you will either be able to control this Performance easily, or struggle mightily with the timing. Remember all Performances are in USER memory so feel free to adjust the Parts to your liking. But before you do, let’s get a method to study this Performance…

Press [PERFORMANCE CONTROL]
The numbered buttons take on new functions, written under the buttons. Four groups of four… To control the four Parts
[1]-[4] are PART SELECT
[5]-[8] are ARP ON/OFF
[9]-[12] are PART MUTE
[13]-[16] are ARP HOLD ON/OFF

Here’s how to approach studying this Performance and what you’ll learn when you do.
Press buttons [10], [11] and [12] to leave just the drums playing… Muting the Bass, the E.Piano and the Guitar
Press [EDIT]
Press [2] to select the Bass Part and then press the [10] button to unMute the Bass line.

It is a four measure Bass phrase. I’ll tell you how I know in a minute.
Press [F2] ARP MAIN
the arp phrase is an “XS_ Type” which means it matters not where on the keyboard you play the bass line will always play in the range of a real bass. This phrase is a simple root, so this is pretty easy to understand.

Control the bass and drums only
Notice that all notes from C-2 through C4 are going to influence the bass.
(I’m pretty sure this is one of the problems you are having - until you look at the ARP MAIN screen you may not realize that notes above middle C are also influencing the bass line. But leave this as it is, for now.

Press [F3] ARP OTHER
In the second column turn LOOP = OFF
This will let you hear what one complete phrase sounds like.
Press a “C” anywhere C4 and below, let the complete phrase play through once.
Hear how it plays for four measures and stops
Notice also the lowest note the Bass can play is an “E”, no matter what. 
Its a four string bass tuned so the lowest note is E, pretty standard. Try to play lower than an E and it wraps around.

Mute the Bass (turn off [10])
Activate the E.Piano [11] and Select it [3]
This is also a four measure phrase - control it and the Drums.
This Arp is controlled by the full range of keys C-2 through G8
It is also an “XS_Type” Arp phrase that plays in a specific range no matter where you voice the chord. A “C Major” chord in any octave triggers the same result.

Play a chord, let it play its four measure phrase.
Play the same chord an octave higher, let it play its four measure phrase.
Play the same chord down an octave from the original chord, let it complete its four measure phrase.
Seeing a trend, better yet, do you hear it?

It recognizes certain chord qualities depending on your trigger notes. Feeding more notes than are in the phrase itself can cause seemingly random results.

Dyads, Triads and Tetrads are no problem and will give musical results you can expect… Pentads and hexads and beyond will cause the chord recognition engine to make a “best guess” based on which notes it sees first/last… And that, my friend, is where you feel like you have one too many bowling pins in the air.

Repeat the isolation experiment with just the guitar and drums. It is a four measure phrase and is restricted to the specific range “XS_Type” that causes any voicing that you play to sound as a guitar would voice that chord.

With the E.Piano and the Guitar you may notice, if you strike the keyboard again during their phrase you can hear additional notes being triggered. It’s like someone else playing along, semi-randomly… And remember, the way the Arp Note Limits are set, you are controlling the Bass with all notes up to C4.

If you attempt to move the bass root independent of the chord instruments, make sure you play your controlling chord C#4 and above. And remember the E.Piano influences the root… Here’s what I mean

Turn on the Drums, Bass, E.piano and Guitar and try this simple progression to see what I’m talking about… Just play right hand chords starting with C Major 7 with middle “C” as the lowest note. The bass player will see “C” as the root. After two measures move up to play D minor 7. The Bass, E.Piano and Guitar all move to D minor 7. Very cool, very easy.

Now, do the same two chords, two measures each, but this time do it one octave higher
(one octave above middle “C"), the Bass player sees that C4, but when you move to D minor 7 in that upper octave the Bass player does not see that command and continues to play C

Dm7/C

The bass player doesn’t see you move… Anytime you are using a controlling chord higher than C4. I’m sure this is on purpose and is how the original programmer was approaching using these four arps.

Playing these “XS_Type” arps means you can use a simple chord consisting of 2, 3 or 4 notes to outline your chord progressions. Playing 5, 6, 7 or 8 note chords should only happen after you’ve experimented, studied and approve of the result you get.

Simple is best. C-E is all you need to outline a C Major chord. C-Eb is all you need to say C Minor.
C-Bb will give you a dominant 7. In fact, it only requires a C-B to create a C Major 7. To do a Diminished or Augmented chord you would actually have to add the musical fifth. And so on.

Want to sound a Cminor9? Give the bass player the root in the lower region and voice a Eb Major7 in the region where the bass is blind. Remember “XS_Type” arps play the same no matter where you enter the controlling information.

Make sense? Have fun!

Bad_Mister - 11 June 2014 08:18 PM

Here are a few tips that can help you.

Now that’s an understatement! This is great stuff! A whole new level of Performance hacking!

With the E.Piano and the Guitar you may notice, if you strike the keyboard again during their phrase you can hear additional notes being triggered. It’s like someone else playing along, semi-randomly…

Is there a way to tell them not to play those additional notes? Does the Arp Sync Quantize Value parameter have any effect on these?

Playing these “XS_Type” arps means you can use a simple chord consisting of 2, 3 or 4 notes to outline your chord progressions. Playing 5, 6, 7 or 8 note chords should only happen after you’ve experimented, studied and approve of the result you get.

I noticed that there are also ES_Type arps. And arps that aren’t either type. I found some articles about arps that I’m going to need to read, Arpeggios Explained Part I and Arpeggios Explained Part II.

If you have any other suggestions about what to read, that would be great.

And thanks for explaining all this…

Is there a way to tell them not to play those additional notes?

Yes, understand that you have triggered a phrase, know what the phrase is playing, and know when you can safely enter new data. Say you are triggering a phrase that plays a specific line, if you interrupt that phrase with new instructions during a held note in that phrase you get what you instruct it. That can turn out to be musical or sound like a train wreck. It depends on where, when and what you instruct it to do.

Say the arp phrase is the shakuhachi flute opening to Sledgehammer by Peter Gabriel. You trigger the phrase with the first note but interrupt it with new instructions before it completes ... It’s simply a case of not understanding what you’re triggering. Each Shakuhachi flute flourish is a two measure phrase starting on the and of three, but say you give it new instructions during the last held dotted whole note. That last note will change to follow your instruction. Could sound ok, but probably not for its intended use.

Isolate the E.Piano Arp Part and play a chromatic scale… You will quickly conclude, “Maybe I shouldn’t do that during this phrase”. Control the arp phrase so it plays musically pleasing things. That’s why I had you listen closely (and separately) to what you are controlling as far as each phrase was concerned. Remember when controlling arps, it is not YOU playing. You are the Conductor, not the player. Those additional instructions that interrupt the arpeggio phrase, that’s YOU.
:-)
Your stepping on Superman’s cape. Do so, so that you enhance, not interrupt what he’s doing! It’s as simple as that. You want to tell them “not to play” then don’t touch the keyboard in the middle of the phrase. By touching the keys during the phrase you are giving a new instruction. With 4 Arps actively being “sorted”, YOU don’t get to play, you get to Conduct Only. You want to play, setup one of the Parts for real time play… That is not what this Performance is about.

Does the Arp Sync Quantize Value parameter have any effect on these?

It ensures that when recording an arp phrase to the sequencer that the position of the START of phrase relative to the triggering/controlling event. Arp phrases differ from Arranger Styles in this feature. With an Arranger the Start of the Phrase is fixed to always play on the beat, every time. Arpeggio phrases can be offset relative to the beat. Say I want to turn a guitar rhythm “inside out” by starting it on the upbeat - say the “and of 1” - arp phrases can do that.

Arp Sync Quantize Value positions the start of the phrase to the nearest value, as set. By setting the value to 240 (eighth note) and waiting until after the first down beat, I can offset the entire phrase to start an eighth note behind the beat (not so useful on this particular Performance… But your mileage varies based on the arp phrase itself).

In both cases Arranger Styles, and Arpeggio Phrases you can be anything but late because once the beat passes the technology cannot mess with the space time continuum, if you get my meaning. Controlling the phrases in both cases is a matter of giving the instruction prior to the beat where you want it, the technology can then precisely place it. But late, ....? You can be anything but late.

Same is true when instructing Pattern Sections to change. There is a PATTERN QUANTIZE parameter, default is “1 measure” giving you an opportunity to push the next Section button any time during what you consider the final measure. The Pattern Section will change at the next measure line.

As the Motif-series matured this parameter was made so you could set Pattern Quantize to values as small as a sixteenth note… Great for trance, dance, and electronica where you can create stutter-step effects while changing Sections. Pattern Chain was updated to be able to record these real time time signature changes. But the role of Pattern Quantize controlling when a Section begins, is similar to Arp Sync Quantize Value which does quantize the phrase, just where the start of the phrase occurs.

In both cases, you anticipate, never never be late. :-)

Excellent question, by the way.

Just to complete the thought about “XS_ Type” arpeggio phrase… Yes I delve into these in the articles about the Arpeggiators… Try this for fun to see the impact and difference between the “ES Type” arps…

On the [F2] ARP MAIN screen change the Bass phrase to the “ES Type” of the same phrase #2480
Change the E.Piano phrase to its “ES_Type” #0224
Change the Guitar phrase to its “ES _Type” #1065

Now the phrases move to the region of the conducting notes… You need to know where you must play to make the phrase work musically. So perhaps you want to leave the Bass and Guitar playing their XS_Type and let the E.Piano roam across the keyboard with where you go as Conductor.  Making some sense about the difference in conducting (triggering/controlling) the phrases?

You also asked about could you record the conducting trigger notes… No, Not to the internal sequencer. The internal sequencer does not/cannot act as an input to control the arpeggiator. Not since the Arpeggiator evolved around 2007 with the introduction of the XS. Real time control via the keyboard was deemed the best, most flexible way to control the musical phrases. In controlling 4 Arps all with “Key Mode = sort” (or “thru") you would conduct with the attitude that less is more.

Key Mode arps that are “sort+direct” or “thru+direct” or “direct” are where what you play on the keys is heard in addition to what the arpeggio plays

Try this experiment:
So leaving the Bass and Guitar playing as originally programmed, set the E.Piano to Arp phrase 0224 (its “ES_Type") and set the E.Piano PART’s KEY MODE = “sort+direct”.

Now experiment… Yes, there are now two keyboard players playing the E.Piano… The ARP (sort) plus YOU (direct). And as you change octaves, the bass and guitarist remain in their proper ranges, while you can control the electric piano freely across the entire keyboard. (Well I say freely but freely as to comping chords, you must still be mindful that the other two sorted Parts are being conducted by what you play. Try repeating chords rhythmically… For single note lines you might want region the Note Limits differently).

Okay… You can see why I get so short (or what some people assume is “short"… I’m really not) with folks asking for more arpeggio phrases. I know (and I know I could be wrong) that they haven’t even begun to explore what’s already here…

+1 Totally awesome thread;an ear opener!