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Viewing topic "KARMA Motif vs Tyros5?"

     
Posted on: June 06, 2014 @ 05:49 PM
Michael Trigoboff
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I’ve been thinking about buying a Tyros5 just to see what that different world is like. But it’s a lot of $$$.

I’m wondering if someone can answer the following question:

Is a Motif XF + a Windows 7 PC running KARMA Motif equivalent to a Tyros5? Better? Worse? Completely different?

Thanks…

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Posted on: June 06, 2014 @ 06:29 PM
cmayhle
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Michael Trigoboff - 06 June 2014 05:49 PM

I’ve been thinking about buying a Tyros5 just to see what that different world is like. But it’s a lot of $$$.

I’m wondering if someone can answer the following question:

Is a Motif XF + a Windows 7 PC running KARMA Motif equivalent to a Tyros5? Better? Worse? Completely different?

Thanks…

Although I own neither, I believe I know enough about each to say:

Completely Different.

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 04:08 AM
chasmanian
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want to compliment you on your creativity and ingenuity.
I have no idea as to the answer. (my experience is that cmayhle is a very reliable source of info. I wish they were wrong this time. hahahahaha
only because I have an XF8 and a windows 7 pc. and would love to check out a Tyros 5. but thats not gonna happen,
unless I hit the lottery. hahahhahha)
also would strongly encourage you to keep brainstorming on this subject. why not?
so KARMA might not be the ticket for this. maybe something else is?

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 04:26 AM
ME1
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I have Tyros 5 and Motif XS + Karma.

I can certainly agree they are completely different scenario’s

Tyros 5 really is an arranger keyboard and a lot of it’s song patterns apply to quite specific hits of the past 50 years. It does however have some fantastically sampled instruments - better than on the motif.
The motif with it’s 4 arps can provide generic backing patterns - and sounds and performances can be manipulated in more depth. karma is karma and is, as has been said before, arpeggios on steroids but it cannot do at all easily what an arranger keyboard does

It boils down to what you want the keyboard for. To me T5 is ok for gigging on your own playing well known hits
I use Motif for playing in a band. I could also use T5 for playing in a band - especially now it is 76 keys. But I could not use the motif for playing well known hits.

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 07:31 PM
Michael Trigoboff
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ME1 - 07 June 2014 04:26 AM

I have Tyros 5 and Motif XS + Karma.

Thanks! That’s exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get. Very helpful—I appreciate it.

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 07:51 PM
Michael Trigoboff
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chasmanian - 07 June 2014 04:08 AM

want to compliment you on your creativity and ingenuity.

Thanks!

also would strongly encourage you to keep brainstorming on this subject. why not? so KARMA might not be the ticket for this. maybe something else is?

It occurred to me that a much larger library of Performances might do the trick if such a thing were available. I just asked that question in a new thread I started.

I know what you mean about the lottery. I’d be just as happy not to have to spend the big bucks on a Tyros5.

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 08:58 PM
richie1027
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I like Michaels suggestion re a larger library of performances.  I’m still using and tweaking existing Perfs by swapping voices, adjusting tempo, new arpeggios , but when it comes to generating new Perfs I lack creativity.

If a product were released with new performances by genre, I’d likely purchase.

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Posted on: June 07, 2014 @ 11:00 PM
digitalperformer7
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Wish I was so lucky to afford a Tyros5…

In my humble opininon, wondering if Tyros5 can substitute Karma for Motif engine is a wrong question that can’t have a right answer.
Karma and Tyros are and have two different approach to music making and generating patterns/phrases.
Perhaps Karma is more “touch of a genius” thanks to stephen Kay who invented and developed it, but it’s a nightmare to create new arpeggios, due to its endless possibilities and possible combinations. That’s why third party new combinations and arpeggios - at least for Motf series, actually - are lacking.
Tyros on the other hand is a classical arranger and its scope is way different from Karma, because Karma is everything but an arranger.

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Posted on: June 08, 2014 @ 12:04 AM
Stephen Kay
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Michael Trigoboff - 06 June 2014 05:49 PM

Is a Motif XF + a Windows 7 PC running KARMA Motif equivalent to a Tyros5? Better? Worse? Completely different?

Great question! I guess you emailed me today the same one and I haven’t had a chance to respond, so here it is:

I would say KARMA is completely different - yet not without some arranger-like capabilities. If you’ve watched the main video we have, you will see that it does “different styles” so to speak, and that you have the ability to change scenes (variations) that sound like different song parts, and you can use fills to transition between those scene changes. However:

1. KARMA doesn’t specifically come programmed to do intros, endings etc. You can use a fill as an intro into one of the scenes, for example, and pick a simple scene and use it for an intro, but the idea is that you are more in control and there’s not going to be an elaborate pre-programmed intro or ending sequence.

2. KARMA doesn’t provide you with the thousands and thousands of styles that an arranger typically does. Really, I have no desire to program a realistic cha-cha or rhumba. KARMA “Performances” (not to be confused with Motif Performances) come in different styles, i.e. trance, techno, ambient, jazz, rock, pop etc. , but they are more “original” sounding, and not really intended to perform a list of well-known cover tunes. They are more to provide inspiration and song-writing ideas, industrial music production like film cues, advertising beds, video backgrounds, etc.

3. The Tyros is a top-level arranger and has been specifically created to have the huge library, and the myriad features required to play and duplicate almost any know song, and sound incredibly realistic while doing so. That has never been my goal with KARMA, which is more of a way of generating musical ideas with infinite variability such that you get ideas you never even knew you had.

4. On the other hand, KARMA is not MIDI-pattern based, like all arrangers, but is parameter based, so there is a great deal more you can do with individually customizing, randomizing, and completely morphing the results into something that sounds absolutely nothing like the original, and bears your own stamp of originality.

I would not suggest that a Motif XF (or the others that work with KARMA Motif, being the XS, XS Rack, MOX, MOXF and soon s70/s90 XS) + KARMA Motif would substitute fully for a Tyros. I would merely suggest that the addition of KARMA Motif to one of those supported Yamaha keyboards will give you a completely new universe of stuff to play with, if you like the idea of arpeggiator patterns, phrase generation, and backing grooves. But if you are expecting a $5000 Tyros out of it, you might be disappointed. ;-)

- Stephen Kay
KARMA Developer :: karma-lab.com
Check out the KARMA Motif Software for the XF!

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Posted on: June 09, 2014 @ 06:35 PM
Michael Trigoboff
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I followed Bad_Mister’s suggestion and looked around on yamahamusicsoft.com. I listened to a number of the items on offer, both MIDI files and Styles. This ended up helping me in an unexpected way:

The available backup bands sound really professional. They play a lot better than I do, since I’m not a professional musician. I don’t think I would enjoy listening to myself playing lead in front of a band that good.

When I put a backup band together myself, I sound better playing in front of it, because “we’re” all playing at about the same level of skill.

If the Tyros5 provides backup bands like what I heard at yamahamusicsoft.com, then I don’t think it’s a machine for me. I’ll do better gaining the skill of putting things together on my own.

I’m curious if folks think I’ve figured this out correctly…

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Posted on: June 10, 2014 @ 06:36 AM
spike88
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Michael Trigoboff - 09 June 2014 06:35 PM

I followed Bad_Mister’s suggestion and looked around on yamahamusicsoft.com. I listened to a number of the items on offer, both MIDI files and Styles. This ended up helping me in an unexpected way:

The available backup bands sound really professional. They play a lot better than I do, since I’m not a professional musician. I don’t think I would enjoy listening to myself playing lead in front of a band that good.

When I put a backup band together myself, I sound better playing in front of it, because “we’re” all playing at about the same level of skill.

If the Tyros5 provides backup bands like what I heard at yamahamusicsoft.com, then I don’t think it’s a machine for me. I’ll do better gaining the skill of putting things together on my own.

I’m curious if folks think I’ve figured this out correctly…

FWIW I have the Tyros 2 and Motif XS with Karma on the PC. The two are entirely different beasts. I use the Tyros for occasional gigs as a solo performer. Not too much thought needs to go into producing an acceptable tune. I make my own styles and multipads with it. The SA sounds are good and have been added to and improved on with later models.
The Motif however is more a music production tool, great for formulating ideas and producing songs via patterns. Karma being a great addition. I also use the Motif midi’d to other synths for home recording. The Motif is more versatile in all aspects.
Like others have said it depends on what you use a keyboard for.
Spike

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Posted on: August 19, 2014 @ 09:15 AM
88Fingers
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Michael Trigoboff - 09 June 2014 06:35 PM


When I put a backup band together myself, I sound better playing in front of it, because “we’re” all playing at about the same level of skill.

THIS is a very interesting statement, and has actually answered the question I’ve had, many times, listening to people play on the Tyros “Why on earth does that sound so out of place....?” ....

Partly because the style has a piano player already playing, but, the solo instrument used, IS a piano, AND the person playing the Tyros is playing in the same range the accompaniment piano is playing ... so ... to me ... that doesn’t make sense ... It’s as if there are two piano players on the stage and ONE is comping, and the other piano player is doing the single-finger note dance.

GREAT thread! Good feedback ....

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Posted on: August 20, 2014 @ 02:28 AM
spike88
Total Posts:  154
Joined  06-24-2008
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88Fingers - 19 August 2014 09:15 AM
Michael Trigoboff - 09 June 2014 06:35 PM


When I put a backup band together myself, I sound better playing in front of it, because “we’re” all playing at about the same level of skill.

THIS is a very interesting statement, and has actually answered the question I’ve had, many times, listening to people play on the Tyros “Why on earth does that sound so out of place....?” ....

Partly because the style has a piano player already playing, but, the solo instrument used, IS a piano, AND the person playing the Tyros is playing in the same range the accompaniment piano is playing ... so ... to me ... that doesn’t make sense ... It’s as if there are two piano players on the stage and ONE is comping, and the other piano player is doing the single-finger note dance.

GREAT thread! Good feedback ....

If you find that the piano voice is fighting the accompaniment piano then all you have to do is change one of them for another voice , that’s why arrangers keyboards are so versatile. You can start with a basic style and edit all the voices in that style. There’s plenty of info on this at http://www.thelonearrangers.com/ where I’m one of the moderators
Spike

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