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Viewing topic "New 2GB Flash Memory Module!"

   
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Posted on: May 29, 2014 @ 02:38 AM
B.Minor
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Joined  10-22-2010
status: Pro

Few years ago when the MOTIF XF appeared on the European market, I was fascinated by its powerful functions, and I considered to buy the XF8 model. Only due to the unavailability of the FW16E MIDI/Audio I/F Card in my area and very expensive memory flash cards available at that time, I dropped those plans again and made other decisions. However, now it was time to take the chance to go for a MOXF, as this package is much more affordable, offers almost the same features as the MOTIF and already includes the combined MIDI/Audio I/F, just based on USB instead of FireWire. The only thing to consider here for me was to choose the right memory flash card. In fact the MOXF8 is my second Yamaha keyboard, as I already own a DX7/II FD from the good-old 80’s which still works perfectly after exchanging the internal lithium battery.

Coming back to this forum after some time I noticed that the casual conversation has changed in the meantime in such a way that even Gurus of this forum, normally known for their great expertise, sometimes use very rude words against potential or existing Yamaha customers. I’m refering to the topic discussed in this thread, but also to parallel discussions taking place in the MOTIF XF forum. I also felt somehow offended by this kind of accusation and critcism, as I can’t understand why people who are just interested in their optimal gear usage - just trying to figure out possible options - are called cheaters, hackers or whatever. There’s nothing special if somebody tries to find a tradeoff between price and functionality. Everybody is looking for the perfect price/performance ratio in daily life. Facts should just be put on the table here and discussed in a professional way. I understand that it’s not always in the interest of Yamaha employees or contributors to support (or even recommend) 3rd party products, but they should be discussed without reservations. Many customers will only take the chance buying Yamaha products if also the whole solution/package will work out for them. Everybody has different requirements and working methods, so I’d recommend to stay objective and fair (okay I’m no moderator, so I’ll get back to the original topic).

I was in the same situation, trying to find out if Yamaha’s original FL-1024 solution would fit my needs, or if I’d rather spend 20% more (at least here in Europe) to get a flash memory board which offers the double amount of memory capacity. I’m sure time will come where I’ll regret having considered to head for the standard solution using 1GB only, especially when there’s need to fit all backing vocals on the memory board along with the regular sounds. Yes, I know that the final number of loadable samples/waveforms will not be increased by inserting a 2GB module. However, as a sample in the MOXF can be as large as 64MB, there will be many chances where I could make use of the higher capacity.

So my decision was clear to go for the MUTEC 2048MB board which I installed and tested today. From my perspective I still can’t see anything wrong in my final decision to choose this 3rd party product. Of course I also contacted MUTEC in advance to ask if the 2GB address range can be fully addressed by the MOXF and if this fact has been tested in-house. Beside all the statements already mentioned here and the MOXF compatibility information printed on the original product package and included instructions, I also got the official confirmation from the vendor by email, even directly replied from the managing director of MUTEC Gmbh Germany. From my point of view there’s no reason not to trust this company having a very good reputation. After my first tests I’m very convinced that the 2G board will work out fine for me, considering the known limitations on the amount of waveforms/samples loadable in the MOXF. And even if I’m sometimes just using a few megabytes beyond that magic 1024MB mark that is claimed to be the physical limit, the FMC-07 board has already payed off for me.

So, unless Yamaha is not intentionally adding a new feature in their next F/W which blocks or locks out all of those “unappreciated” 3rd party memory devices equipped with higher capacity than 1G, I guess I will have much fun with my MOXF configuration. Of course I’d appreciate if Yamaha takes the chance to remove these sample number limitations completely like they already did for the newest Tyros series. I know this is a devotional wish to Santa Claus, but you never know. Let’s see which customer policy will apply in the future.

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Posted on: May 29, 2014 @ 01:08 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  965
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

B.Minor,

You are a good man.

Well spoken :)

Jerry

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Posted on: May 29, 2014 @ 02:13 PM
blake80
Total Posts:  110
Joined  03-14-2014
status: Pro
jerrydpi - 29 May 2014 01:08 PM

B.Minor,

You are a good man.

Well spoken :)

Jerry

I second that. I too have a MUTEC 1GB board installed in my MOXF8 and have had no problems and I know we are specifically talking about the 2GB card on this thread but still I can’t see why some people are ranting.

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Posted on: August 05, 2014 @ 04:42 AM
jimbowal
Total Posts:  84
Joined  06-13-2014
status: Experienced

Latest issue of the Yamaha Music Production Guide 05/14 has an article on page 12 by Hans-Peter Henkel on the Mutec FMC-07.
Screenshot on page 13 appears to be from MOXF showing 2GB.

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Posted on: August 05, 2014 @ 07:48 AM
5pinDIN
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jimbowal - 05 August 2014 04:42 AM

Latest issue of the Yamaha Music Production Guide 05/14 has an article on page 12 by Hans-Peter Henkel on the Mutec FMC-07.
Screenshot on page 13 appears to be from MOXF showing 2GB.

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2014_05_EN.pdf

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Posted on: August 26, 2014 @ 09:59 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

Anybody else with reports on the Mutec FMC-07? Also, am I correct that there’s yet to be an official word from Yamaha on the use of this 2GB in the motif xf?  (I realize this is the MOXF forum; I just figured I should revive the most recent Mutec thread.) I know it came out and a recent Yamaha Music Production Guide, but to me that seems more like an ad than a reliable review.

From what I’ve read here, the 2GB board seems like a fortunate and useful feature for the Yamahas that have flash memory expansion slots. Even without the OS waveform # increase. Longer samples- awesome! 

But yeah, my concerns are: reliability & latency. It’s a big # to gamble on. It seems like a worthwhile gamble.  Any Mutec rep or user want to chime in?

Thanks,

d

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Posted on: August 27, 2014 @ 03:33 PM
MrMotif
Total Posts:  1100
Joined  10-02-2002
status: Administrator

We do not speak for Yamaha (truly, Motifator.com is an independent site!) but it would seem unlikely that Yamaha has anything against Mutec or that Mutec makes inferior or unreliable products.

This at times rather heated thread is just debating the value of an instant-access storage medium that offers more storage capacity than the host instrument has the capability of addressing.

If people simply don’t mind paying for this extra storage, in spite of the fact that it won’t be immediately usable in the way that the Flash memory capability of the XFs was initially designed, then, well, that’s fine. It’s helpful for everyone to understand what they’re getting and what they’re not getting of course…

Although the temperature of this thread has nudged into the red from time to time it’s still good to see passion in action. People here do seem to care, and there’s nothing worse than blandness when it comes to music.

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Posted on: August 28, 2014 @ 12:08 AM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

From what I have read on the Mutec site, it is my understanding that the Motif XF can access all the storage capacity (4GB) of two loaded & installed FMC-07’s … keeping in mind that the original waveform/ keybank/sample limits remain. Based on my initial attempts user sampling, I can easily see how I can benefit from the additional flash storage, amidst the original waveform/keybank/sample limit.

Mutec users/reps, thoughts?

Obviously, I’m a little chicken to jump in at the $530 mark for a new 3rd party memory board.

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Posted on: August 29, 2014 @ 03:54 AM
B.Minor
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Dansetto, as it seems that you are asking from a Motif XF point of view, for clarity I’d like to mention first that I can only share my experience from a MOXF user perspective. However, I think that most aspects will also be valid for your final decision (please forgive my English, as this is not my native language).

I’m using the Mutec 2G flashboard now for several months, in fact since it was officially released in Germany. Of course, before my purchase I also had similar questions like the ones you raised. That’s why I directly contacted Mutec in advance and I got immediate response from their Managing Director. Very friendly, competent and professional as from my experience. I don’t want to repeat all the details and specs concerning the FMC-07 2G flashboard, as most of them have already been outlined in several articles and discussed here in previous posts (and of course in the parallel thread in the Motif XF forum).

Personally I didn’t regret my choice so far, as I already exceeded the 1G mark for storing samples to my MOXF8. Very early after purchasing the synthesizer I was lucky to catch some original-sealed Motif XF-related products, like the 10th Anniversary Pack (also including an original Yamaha 512M flashboard beside the great Chick’s Mark V Rhodes library), as well as the Motifator XF/XS Card (including String libraries etc. that I converted to MOXF format using Melas Tools). In addition I also purchased K-Sound’s fantastic Signature Piano. In fact most of theses products use long samples and therefore you can end up soon filling up your flashboard without nearly touching the other internal limitations Yamaha implemented into the Motif series.

Exceeding the physical storage capacity can happen sooner than you think, especially if you also decide to use free Yamaha content in addition (like the Inspiration In A Flash content, the CP1 and S700 pianos, ethnic sounds etc.). And - as in my case - if you also intend to include some backing vocals or sound effects on stage which have previously been recorded in the studio, I can only recommend to have more storage capacity available in your synthesizer than just 1G. For you as a Motif XF owner this can easily been solved by installing a second original Yamaha flashboard. From my simple MOXF8 perspective (only having one single flashboard slot available) heading for the 2G flashboard right from the start was a no-brainer, especially because I am dealing with large samples and I don’t want to change flashboards all the time (or wait very long each time when loading large setups from USB stick).

Of course you might ask now: Why the hell did I acquire the original 512MB flashboard in addition, and do I still use it even if I already own the Mutec 2G board? Simple answer: In my case the original Motif XF 10th Anniversary Package (including the libraries plus the 512MB flashboard) was only half the price compared to the single 512MB flashboard sold in most stores! However, I still can use it as an additional backup board for my most important setups.

Comparing the Yamaha and the Mutec flashboard side by side, from my experience there is no audible difference, neither in the latency you were interested in, nor in loading/storing speeds or any other technical behavior I could think of right now. The essential difference that counts for me most is simply the available storage capacity and the low price for what you get. Of course the physical board layout differs from Yamaha’s original, e.g. featuring a 6-layer board and a different design for the mounting screws. However, as already explained in this thread by others, Mutec uses the same chips like Yamaha does for production, so there seem’s to be no technical advantage/disadvantage, regardless what will be your final choice. Last but not least I’d like to point out that Mutec - like Yamaha - is known for their reliable and professional products (no - I’m not working for them).

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Posted on: September 09, 2014 @ 08:41 PM
dsetto
Total Posts:  409
Joined  01-24-2014
status: Enthusiast

B.Minor,

Thank you very much for your detailed user experience with the 2GB Mutec board. And thank you for reporting on the lack of latency. Your English is excellent.

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Posted on: December 22, 2014 @ 11:56 AM
B.Minor
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After more than half a year of intensive usage, I decided to post my experiences with the Mutec 2GB flashbord which has been an integral part of my MOXF configuration since the beginning. Until today I did not regret to have bought this fine piece, as there has never been any technical issue, failure or data loss while using it and - most of all - I haven’t been running out of waveform memory too easily.

Especially piano sounds will occupy much memory space because of containing very large samples, but on the other hand they might not contain as many keymaps/waveforms as other libraries do. In fact, if you mainly plan to load and use Piano/Rhodes libraries with your MOXF like I currently do, you can’t go wrong with an installed 2GB flashboard. You won’t even nearly hit the internal limitations applicable to a “Motif series” flashboard slot (as I will demonstrate below). I figured it all out already, and up to now - especially with my kind of usage - I never had any memory issues here. The “2GB max.” was always the limit which was about to be hit first before approaching any other limitation (like the number of waveforms or keybanks/samples).

Currently I’ve installed all free piano libraries available from Yamaha, including the great “CP1 Piano” (60MB if you delete all unused waveforms), the well-known “S700 Piano” (32MB) and the original “Motif Pianos” (5MB), all included in the free downloadable “CP1 Piano” and “Inspiration In A Flash” libraries available for the XF and MOXF. In addition, I’ve also installed the large version of K-Sounds amazing “Signature Piano” (455MB) and the large version of the (in my opinion not so felicitous) “Alan Parsons Bösendorfer Imperial Grand Piano Model 290” (915MB). However, there’s still enough space left to have the sensational “Chick’s Mark V” (399MB) Rhodes library from the “Motif 10th Anniversary” package and the well-done “Rhodes Mark II” (120MB) library from Keyboard Waves, included on the same flashboard. And there’s still some space for more waveforms (all listed MB values have been rounded up).

Just to get an idea about what I’m trying to point out here:
For all mentioned libraries, in total I only used…
- 40 waveforms (2% of the available waveform capacity - 2048 max.),
- 3821 keybanks/samples (47% of the available keybank capacity - 8192 max.)
- 1984MB (97% of the available memory capacity - 2048MB max.)

...meaning that for my current kind of flashboard usage the internal MOXF restrictions would be still sufficient even if a “4GB flashboard” would have been installed into the available slot (I know - that is physically not supported by design).

Summing up, the decision if a 2GB board will pay off for you will always depend on the final content you are planning to use. If you’re a piano player and you intend to load mainly piano or Rhodes libraries, you probably will be always on the safe side. I even dare to say that in most cases - when using a more “mixed” content - you’ll have a very good chance to make full use of the 2GB capacity before you might hit the other MOXF memory limitations.

Btw., a suitable way of looking how’s about your current flashboard memory occupation is to save your whole MOXF content as an ALL file to USB and then to load it into John Melas Waveform Editor (of course, only if you own this one). There you will see all waveforms along with the number of included keymaps and samples. Needless to say, of course you can also check very quick how much memory in MB has been occupied so far by each sample.

Hope I could give more insight on this topic, especially for those of you who don’t have a flashboard yet and want to get the best out of your MOXF memory capabilities.

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Posted on: December 22, 2014 @ 01:52 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3104
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru

Excellent update B.Minor, and you have confirmed empirically what many of us in this large thread hypothesized was an obvious upgrade:

The ability to address a much higher total of data than 1GB Flash Boards can...as long as the total limit of waveforms/keybanks is not exceeded.

In other words, exactly as you used it in your application.

I currently have a 1GB Yamaha Flash in my XF’s FL1, and thanks to your report feel much more confident in considering a 2GB Mutec Board for my FL2 slot.

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Posted on: December 22, 2014 @ 11:03 PM
B.Minor
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Thanks cmayhle, I’m glad I could encourage you to take your personal decisions for possible future upgrades.

However, I forgot to mention one important thing - in my opinion the only drawback whenever having a “larger” flashboard installed in any Yamaha synth:

Saving or loading to/from USB will take much longer than 2 hours whenever the 2GB flashboard is filled up close to its maximum capacity. But I guess that’s something which cannot be avoided due to the transfer speed which was designed by Yamaha to comply to USB 1.1 only. Unfortunately that’s something currently all Motif owners have to suffer from, also users having their “Motif XF fully loaded” with two original Yamaha 1024MB flashboards.

cmayhle, in your case - planning a total capacity of 3GB installed in your XF - you will be able to learn two foreign languages in the meantime while the data are being transferred ;-)

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Posted on: March 22, 2016 @ 11:56 AM
Carly
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status: Regular

Something else to consider is the heat generated by extra memory being added, Apple recommended a restricted amount of RAM added to their laptops, some who exceeded this mentioned heating problems on the Apple forum, so would investigate with Yamaha what the consequences would be.

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Posted on: April 11, 2016 @ 12:56 AM
julian.david
Total Posts:  2
Joined  03-22-2015
status: Newcomer

Hi Carly,

The MUTEC 2GB board has been around for a while and there are a bunch of happy users out there that haven’t had any heat problems at all. Julian (Motifator admin) sells the boards here in his shop so rest assured that there won’t be any issues with compatibility.

Thanks,
Julian
---------------
Julian David
MUTEC Marketing

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