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Viewing topic "Can Yamaha make a bigger flash module than 1 GB?!"

   
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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 12:28 AM
wizardgraphics
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Is Yamaha thinking of a birthday gift for me? hint, a bigger flash module. How about 4 GB? Is that possible? Can the MOXF read flash modules bigger than 1 GB? That. Would be very interesting.

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 03:08 AM
5pinDIN
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There are (at least) a couple of factors that would determine whether a 4 GB flash module could be constructed and/or used.

1) Does the processor in the MOXF have a sufficiently large address space? For example, many 32-bit processors are limited to a 2 GB address space - the combination of the ROM contents, etc., plus a 1 GB module, wouldn’t leave room for addressing more memory.

2) Are there compatible NOR flash chips that are large enough? When the Motif XF was developed, the largest chip of the M29EW family had a 1 Gbit capacity. Since then, a 2 Gbit version has become available. Four of the 1 Gbit chips are mounted on one side of an FL512M module - the other side of the board is unpopulated. For the FL1024M (1 GB), both sides have chips, for a total of eight. With the more recent 2 Gbit chips, using eight on a module could result in a 2 GB version.

It appears that as things stand now, 2 GB might only be possible if the processor can use it.

Of course, assuming it could be done, there’s the practicality of cost. How much would Yamaha have to charge for a larger capacity module, and would users be willing to pay for it?

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 07:47 AM
wizardgraphics
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5pinDIN - 10 March 2014 03:08 AM

There are (at least) a couple of factors that would determine whether a 4 GB flash module could be constructed and/or used.

1) Does the processor in the MOXF have a sufficiently large address space? For example, many 32-bit processors are limited to a 2 GB address space - the combination of the ROM contents, etc., plus a 1 GB module, wouldn’t leave room for addressing more memory.

2) Are there compatible NOR flash chips that are large enough? When the Motif XF was developed, the largest chip of the M29EW family had a 1 Gbit capacity. Since then, a 2 Gbit version has become available. Four of the 1 Gbit chips are mounted on one side of an FL512M module - the other side of the board is unpopulated. For the FL1024M (1 GB), both sides have chips, for a total of eight. With the more recent 2 Gbit chips, using eight on a module could result in a 2 GB version.

It appears that as things stand now, 2 GB might only be possible if the processor can use it.

Of course, assuming it could be done, there’s the practicality of cost. How much would Yamaha have to charge for a larger capacity module, and would users be willing to pay for it?

Thank you so much for the info. I was thinking of a birthday gift from Yamaha :-)

I will buy one for sure.

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 02:39 PM
jshep0102
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I’d love it, but likely at roughly 1/3 the cost of the synth…

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 02:41 PM
wizardgraphics
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jshep0102 - 10 March 2014 02:39 PM

I’d love it, but likely at roughly 1/3 the cost of the synth…

I wonder why Yamaha’s memory chips are so expensive!

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 02:58 PM
miden
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It’s Yamaha ;-) btw don’t hold out for anything soon..There is not even speculation for it to be increased on the main Motif lines, let alone the “budget” offshoots. If they (Yamaha) could introduce “streaming” from a connected device, instead of having to pre-load, that would be good.

Although then they would not be able to sell the memory card inventory, so that won’t happen :P

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 03:04 PM
wizardgraphics
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miden - 10 March 2014 02:58 PM

It’s Yamaha ;-) btw don’t hold out for anything soon..There is not even speculation for it to be increased on the main Motif lines, let alone the “budget” offshoots. If they (Yamaha) could introduce “streaming” from a connected device, instead of having to pre-load, that would be good.

Although then they would not be able to sell the memory card inventory, so that won’t happen :P

The new Roland FA-08/06 is able to load new waveforms from an SD card! imagine that for a MOFX. I honestly don’t see why not. Cost, capacity. Imagine having a 32 GB SD card that is $20-40 vs a 1 GB Yamaha flash module for $300. Sighs at Yamaha!

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 03:23 PM
cmayhle
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wizardgraphics - 10 March 2014 03:04 PM

...The new Roland FA-08/06 is able to load new waveforms from an SD card! imagine that for a MOFX. I honestly don’t see why not. Cost, capacity. Imagine having a 32 GB SD card that is $20-40 vs a 1 GB Yamaha flash module for $300. Sighs at Yamaha!

The Yamaha can LOAD new waveforms from a $6 thumb drive!

The thing is, LOADING waveforms and accessing waveforms in real-time by the machine (e.g. without any perceptible latency) are two very different propositions!

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 03:33 PM
miden
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cmayhle - 10 March 2014 03:23 PM
wizardgraphics - 10 March 2014 03:04 PM

...The new Roland FA-08/06 is able to load new waveforms from an SD card! imagine that for a MOFX. I honestly don’t see why not. Cost, capacity. Imagine having a 32 GB SD card that is $20-40 vs a 1 GB Yamaha flash module for $300. Sighs at Yamaha!

The Yamaha can LOAD new waveforms from a $6 thumb drive!

The thing is, LOADING waveforms and accessing waveforms in real-time by the machine (e.g. without any perceptible latency) are two very different propositions!

Yep, good that you pointed it out. I did write “streaming” in the post, but sometimes it is good to specify :-)

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 07:28 PM
wizardgraphics
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miden - 10 March 2014 03:33 PM
cmayhle - 10 March 2014 03:23 PM
wizardgraphics - 10 March 2014 03:04 PM

...The new Roland FA-08/06 is able to load new waveforms from an SD card! imagine that for a MOFX. I honestly don’t see why not. Cost, capacity. Imagine having a 32 GB SD card that is $20-40 vs a 1 GB Yamaha flash module for $300. Sighs at Yamaha!

The Yamaha can LOAD new waveforms from a $6 thumb drive!

The thing is, LOADING waveforms and accessing waveforms in real-time by the machine (e.g. without any perceptible latency) are two very different propositions!

Yep, good that you pointed it out. I did write “streaming” in the post, but sometimes it is good to specify :-)

Would someone please explain if there is another way of adding more libraries over the capacity of a 1 GB flash module for the MOXF?  I already filled it out. How can I add a roughly 1 GB acoustic pianos new sounds library for example? Thanks.

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Posted on: March 10, 2014 @ 09:51 PM
miden
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You can’t, not on the moxf anyway. What you COULD do is use a small laptop (only in dimensions, not capability) and run VST pianos and synths along with the sound libraries already on your moxf using the excellent Master Mode to control both.

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Posted on: March 11, 2014 @ 12:43 PM
jshep0102
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But with perceptable latency doing what miden says. It’s something some can live with, some can’t.

Buy another flash, fill it. Hot swap for the piano. That’s the only way I can think of. You just can’t have it all at the same time. It takes much less time to swap flash rom than load flash rom.

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Posted on: March 11, 2014 @ 01:10 PM
5pinDIN
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jshep0102 - 11 March 2014 12:43 PM

[...] Hot swap for the piano. [...]

The term “hot swap” usually refers to doing so with the power on. If that’s what you mean, do you know whether it’s safe to do it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_swapping

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Posted on: March 11, 2014 @ 02:27 PM
miden
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I would suspect that it is inadvisable, especially with flash ram cards - once installed they are quite robust, but even with the low DC currents involved, “hot” swapping may brick it.

OP could go for a Motif XF and be able to install 2 cards? It is a real pity the SM Pro Audio V-Machine is crap, it would be ideal for this sort of thing.

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Posted on: March 11, 2014 @ 03:51 PM
5pinDIN
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miden - 11 March 2014 02:27 PM

I would suspect that it is inadvisable, especially with flash ram cards - once installed they are quite robust, but even with the low DC currents involved, “hot” swapping may brick it.[...]

Agreed. The flash module connector has 120 pins - depending on what order they break (when a module is removed) or make (when a module is installed) connection, at a minimum there’s risk to the data. The hardware itself could easily be damaged.

Swapping “cold” shouldn’t present a problem, if reasonable care is taken.

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Posted on: March 11, 2014 @ 04:56 PM
miden
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Yep, agree with cold swap. Might be awkward in a gig situation though.

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