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keyinstigator
Total Posts: 9
Joined 04-15-2011 status: Newcomer |
I am using a Classic Motif as my Sequencer. I want to use my XF thru the sequencer in the Classic using the 16 tracks on the XF as sound sources.
Some background- 1st, I bought the XF because I wanted, in addition to the waveforms, the flash memory. I did not buy the XS rack because it does not have the flash. 2nd, I am using the Classic as my master because I already have over 500 songs recorded into the sequencer, additionally, my Classic is the 76 key model, and the XF is the 61 key model. Since I intended to use the XF as a glorified rack with keys, I did not spend the extra money on the 76 key model. And, there are waveforms and effects, as well as a filter setting that I use fairly often that aren;t on the subsequent Motif models. I custom program 90% of the sounds that I use in my songs. So the Classic is here to stay.
1- The Classics track volumes do not change the volumes on the XF tracks. The classic does not send out Volume (7) from the individual tracks. I can use assignA or assignB to send out volume changes that the XF recognizes, but of course that does not change the volume sliders in the mixing section of the Classic. I assume that there is a way to do this, since you put out rack versions of former Motifs, and they would need to be controlled from a Classic sequencers mixing section. And , since there is no XF rack, I hope that that functionality is built in to the XF. I have not checked, but I hope the pan control works from the Classic to the XF. The question- How do I control the volume on an XF track that is being played by the Classic’s sequencer from the mixing section on the the Classic? 2- As you might imagine, with 500+ songs, I have track configurations ranging from 1 track to all 16 tracks, with program changes, on the Classic. I want to incorporate the XF into a lot of my songs. Those tracks that I will use on the XF will vary from 1 to 16 tracks as well. How do I set up the Classic to play only the tracks that I want it to, locally, and play the other tracks on the XF, with the combinations varying from song to song? 3- Is there any way for the Classic to send out a command to the XF to load a bank of songs? Also, when I call up a sequence in a loaded bank on the Classic, can it send out a command to select a different sequence on the XF? I am guessing that I will have to load both instruments separately, and select there sequences as well. One can hope though. That’s it, for now Thanks for the help. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
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keyinstigator
Total Posts: 9
Joined 04-15-2011 status: Newcomer |
Sorry, I will try to be more clear about what I would like to do. Question 1 - Midi the Classic out to the XF midi in. On the Classic, in the mixing section of the sequencer,on the VOL/PAN page, select any track, and adjust the volume for that track with the inc. dec. buttons or the data dial, and there are no changes to the volume on the XF. Note: That is how I typically do my adjustments in the sequencer. I did just however find that I can adjust the volume on the XF from the Classic’s control sliders, but, the volume fader on the Classic’s screen, in the mixing section, does not move when I use the sliders. Which is why I haven’t been making my adjustments to volume and pan settings in the Classic’s sequencer. That means I would have to monitor both screens to see where the volumes are set on both keyboards. True , I can hit the knob control function button and see my adjustments to the track volume, but only in 4 track combinations. I can’t see the entire 16 track sequencer from that page. That is not ideal, but at least it is a work around So, I guess the question is, can I adjust the volume on the XF from the Classics Inc. Dec. buttons or the data dial in the mixing section of the Classic’s sequencer? I’m guessing the answer will be the same for the pan adjustments as well. Question 2-
I don’t know how to set the Classic tracks to only play the XF and not the Classic’s tone generator. For example: I assign tracks 1, 4, 5, 8 to play only the XF. I have the Classic playing tracks locally on 2, 3, 6, 10, 11, 12, 13 14, 15. And for instance, track 16 to play on both the XF and the Classic. Tracks 1, 4, 5, 8 play both the Classic and the XF. In the Utility mode, on the Classic, I can set the Local off, but, of course, that cuts off all the tracks, as it is designed to do. I have programmed a silent patch into my user voices, and assigned it to track 2 in some songs, so that I can adjust the volume of the plug-in, on the Classic, without bringing in an unwanted sound from the Classic tone generator block, on the fly, during song playback. I believe that works because the Plug-in is on midi port 2, therefore, I can have a different patch number for the plug-in from the silent patch that is in the Classic’s user voices. I don’t think that will work between the Classic and the XF because both units communicate on port 1.
Question 3- Basically, I figure this is’t doable. I just wanted to know, when I select a sequence on the Classic, can it send out midi info to the XF to select a corresponding sequence? And if so, can it send out a different number than the one that is selected on the Classic. Similar to having a patch mapping capability, where the local unit plays one patch number but sends out to the slave unit, a different patch number, but, in this instance, for selecting sequence locations, not patches. I appreciate the help. I’d really like to incorporate my XF into the gig. Thanks |
keyinstigator
Total Posts: 9
Joined 04-15-2011 status: Newcomer |
Sorry, on question 3 I left out the n. I meant “isn’t”, not is’t. Also , on question 2 , I left out a period. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
It is clear what you are missing. The Control Slider sends a MIDI Control Change message cc007 Main Channel Volume, this will affect all receiving devices on this MIDI channel forcing them to the same absolute value. The [INC]/[DEC] buttons and the DATA WHEEL, do not send cc007 and therefore only adjust the Motif Classics internal Volume. The [INC]/[DEC] buttons and the DATA WHEEL do not transmit OUT via MIDI. Make sense? You are judging the results without realizing why things are happening. If you want to adjust the volume of the XF from the Classic you have to use a message that is transmitted OUT via MIDI and is interpreted by the receiving device (XF) as a command to make a change.
It is also pretty obvious that you have not yet discovered when and why the Control Sliders of the Classic do not move (or do not seem to move). This is a fundamental for physical controls that have to control parameters that are recalled independently. If the CONTROL SLIDERS were motorized they would move to the value of the setting according to the mix when you recall it. They are not motorized and therefore have to be moved to the exact value that is STORED for that channel before they become active. This type of controller movement is called “hooking” or “catching” the value. If you look closely at the old classic screen - you will see that the FADER icon has a fader “cap”, that when first recalled looks one way, say the physical fader is all the way down, and you recall a mix where the channel volume cc007 is set to 100. You will need to move the physical Fader up until it “hooks”, or “catches” the value 100, at that point the Fader icon gains a shadow (sort of a 3-D graphic, shadow) indicating that the fader is now ACTIVE. All values from minimum to 100 the fader icon will not move, once you pass 100, the Fader is now ACTIVE and will remain active from this point on. In your updated Motif XF screen - you will see that the screen FADER has a red arrow that appears; when the MIX is first recalled it appears - in our example it would be at the point where 100 would be, As you move the Fader up it will “hook” or catch the value at 100, at that point the red arrow disappears indicating that the fader is now ACTIVE. All values from minimum to 100 the red arrow will still appear, once you pass 100, the Fader is now ACTIVE and will remain active from this point on. If the faders were motorized the fader would automatically move to 100 and you would not have this issue. Make sense?
The terminology is all fouled up here and it is preventing you from seeing the solution. A TRACK is a function of the SEQUENCER - MIDI data is recorded to Tracks of a Sequencer. The only Tracks here (as far as I can tell are on the Motif Classic’s Sequencer. There is no data on the Tracks of the Motif XF. A Track transmits MIDI data to a Part. A PART is what receives data and is a function of the Tone Generator. So what you wanted to say was this: “When the Motif (Classic’s) Tracks are transmitting - how do I configure the PARTS of the Classic and the PARTS of the XF to receive or not receive data when I want.” If you were using and understanding the terms TRACK (Transmit) and PART (Receive) then this is a simple problem of MIDI Channel settings.
On the Motif (Classic)
On the Motif XF
make sense? |
keyinstigator
Total Posts: 9
Joined 04-15-2011 status: Newcomer |
Thanks BadMister. I kept forgetting the part midi receive channel was referring to the internal tracks and not what would be coming in from the “midi in"of the Classic. As far as the CS’s not changing the placement of the volume faders on the mixing page, I found that my gig Classic worked correctly. I am aware of the latch lock concept which has been in use for years. I kept fiddling with midi and sequence controls, including port assignments, on my home unit, and all of the sudden the faders began responding as they should. I also had started another thread about an attack transient linked to the faders position that went away as well when the CS’s started behaving correctly. i obviously had something set wrong in my home unit. As far as the Inc. Dec. buttons and the Data Dial, I was hoping there was a way to assign them to control Vol 7. Not to be. Thanks again! |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
And for good reason. Imagine trying to scroll through a list of parameters or trying to change an Effect, or advance through Voices… And each time you pressed [INC] the volume increased on all your connected external devices or each time you moved the Data Wheel, the volume changed. The [INC]/[DEC] buttons and the Data Wheel are what is called “Data Entry” devices.
No ...I think their current workings are fine. You really don’t want these devices doing that, if you think it through. Besides the sliders (faders) are the best level/volume control.
What you do want, is independent control of the internal setting, separate from what goes out via MIDI.. Along those lines… Here are some useful things to know: BTW - an FC7 pedal plugged into the Foot Controller 1 jack will default to cc011 Expression - which is a separate type of volume control. This will allow you change volume of multiple devices on the same MIDI channel while maintaining their proportional volume levels. That is if the internal Part is set 25% louder than the external Part, moving the FC7 Expression will maintain their relative relationship in volume. (Unlike cc007 as sent by the CS, which forces all receiving devices to the same absolute value as soon as it is engaged). Also you can set any PART to ignore changes in volume using the appropriate RECEIVE SWITCH setting for the Part. RCV SW is a PART Edit parameter found usually at [F5] or [F6] Hope that helps. |
keyinstigator
Total Posts: 9
Joined 04-15-2011 status: Newcomer |
Yeah, Makes perfect sense. Thanks again. I have 3 FC-7 pedals. Been using them since day 1. Great Forum! |