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Viewing topic "saving muted parts"

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Posted on: February 12, 2014 @ 01:58 AM
Total Posts:  16
Joined  02-06-2014
status: Regular

ok..I have found out that yes you can save the volume.. is it possible to assign a particular volume of the channel in performance rather than zero the sound and bring that up?(in performance)

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Posted on: February 12, 2014 @ 03:08 AM
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Just for clarity’s sake. I only use the terminology of the instrument.

MUTE is a term used in the language of the product.
While it is a common language term, it has a specific definition within the product.

Whether you start with a Part ON or OFF to some in this discussion is being used interchangeably with the concept of MUTE or UNMUTE. I am not.

You can certainly start with a PART OFF and turn it ON when you require.
You cannot store what Yamaha calls a MUTE outside of the sequencer. While there is a similarity between a Part that is muted and a Part that is Off, technically speaking there is a difference.

Mute in the MOXF is the status of whether a Track or a Part is audible. Stay with me a minute more.
A Track Mute is different from a Part Mute, and both are different from a Part being On or Off.

A Track Mute is a status concerning whether a MOXF sequencer track is transmitting MIDI data.
A Part Mute is a status concerning whether a MOXF synth Part is receiving data.

Track Mutes can be stored by a proprietary Yamaha Track Mute event, on a dedicated sequencer track.
Part Mutes are dynamic and cannot be stored, they allow you to deactivate a Part temporarily.

Since when using the sequencer you transmit to a Part via a selected Track. Muting the Track stops MIDI data from playing, but the keyboard continues to transmit on that channel to all sound devices set to receive that channel.
Muting the Part, on the other hand, stops the MOXF tone engine from sounding. The MIDI data on the track can still transmit Out, and the keybd can still transmit Out, but the internal Part is silenced.

When talking about Performances you can recall four Voices (one per Part) if you want to start with 2 of them not sounding - the Mute function as defined by the Yamaha terminology cannot be used. Mute in the Yamaha definition is a function that can be stored as an event in the Sequencer modes dealing with Tracks.

It does not prevent you from accomplishing your goal, however And that’s all I’m trying to get across.

There are several ways:
Temporary Part Mutes. Forget about Mute unless you are actively using the sequencer Tracks to automate these. Mute here is very mature and works extremely well for those automating complex mixes. So we are not going to update that out of the operating system, sorry. I think you’ll appreciate it when mixing

On/Off - the Part Switches that activate and deactivate a Part are available but not that convenient for use on stage.

Volume = 0 - that’s right turning a Part to volume = 0, is a viable “mute” especially when the MOXF can instantly recall volume settings at the press of a single button. I would think this would be a viable method to pursue for use on stage.

Turn the transmit channel dynamically On/Off. This again can allow you store just the Parts you want active when you initially recall the program and you can at the press of a button bring in your silent instruments.

Program in advance obviously planning ahead offers the most flexible and customizable route. Not for those who immediately look for the quickest and easiest way. But thankfully still available for the clever and unafraid. This gets very deep

Let’s zoom in on 3 and 4 because they do offer some viable, quick/easy solutions

Volume = 0
Because a SCENE MEMORY can store Volume condition and you can preset six of them per program, you can COPY your PERFORMANCE to a Song/Pattern MIXING setup where among the other parameters it gains it can take on six SCENE Memory snapshots that can instantly remix your program at anytime.
Press SONG or PATTERN find an empty location
Press [MIXING]
Press [JOB]
Press [F3] COPY
copy your Performance to Parts 1-4 of the Mixing

Need Parts 1 and 4 in (unmuted) initially. Pull the volumes down on Parts 2 and 3 and store a snapshot to SCENE 1
Need to instantly bring in Parts 2 and 3? Raise the volumes as necessary, store a second snapshot to SCENE 2

Now at any time you need to switch its one button to bring the Parts you want at the volumes you want.
Press [STORE]

Turn the transmit channel dynamically On/Off
In Master mode the MOXF can transmit from the keyboard on four MIDI channels simultaneously. You can, using the Performance Template function copy your Performance to a Mixing, this time each Part on a separate MIDI channel. The MOXF can dynamically turn MIDI transmit channels On and Off at the touch of a button.
Press [MIXING]
Press [F2] PERFORM
Copy the Performance to Parts 1-4 this routine places each Part on a successively higher MIDI channel 1-4

STORE your mix.
Associate this SONG or PATTERN with a MASTER program
Set the Zone Switch =On
Press EDIT
Press [1] to view Zones
Set the [F1] TRANS to transmit internal to channels 1, 2, 3, and 4
Set ON the channels you want initially.
Press [STORE]

To turn OFF/ON internal Zones use buttons [1]-[4] while [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] is active
To turn OFF/ON external Zones use buttons [9]-[12] while [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] is active

There are other methods… No update is necessary.
I doubt seriously the terminology will change (I think it better you redefine Mute for how your instrument is using it and see these routines as outlined above, as some methods of accomplishing what you musically require).  I think the use of the word Mute as understood from the recording world is not a bad one. Don’t let the semantics of the product cloud your musical goal.

You can argue, complain and wait for an update that may not arrive ever… Or you can try the above and see which one works for you. I truly feel many of these routines are far easier than you would first think. And may open some new possibilities for you.

Let me know. And if you own an S90 XS don’t draw conclusions about your instrument from what the MOXF does… Or doesn’t do.

I hope this is helpful

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Posted on: February 12, 2014 @ 03:57 AM
Total Posts:  618
Joined  09-22-2005
status: Guru

Thanks BM, a very illuminating point I would make, is that we have 256 Performance slots with which one can create all sorts of live ready setups.

By needing to have a user utilise Song/Pattern Mode with the setups you outlined above (excellent though they are) means 64 is the maximum available. It could be argued that if Master Mode were employed one could then have perhaps 128 options available, however this is still only capable of drawing on the small (relatively) number of 64 slots.

Perhaps if the external storage system Yamaha has for the entire Motif series was a little more dynamic, in that a user could use a external storage device to directly load from when calling a Song or Performance, (without needing to go to an archaic File system to open various folders first to get to the required data then wait for it to load then.......) then your above methods would be quite acceptable as one could have as many setups under Song/Pattern mode utilising scenes they desired.

And yes, I do know under pattern mode one can create a rather complex layer of options, however this becomes rather convoluted and awkward if one, due to overall user slot restrictions, has to create “multi-song” setups under one Song or Pattern slot.

The Performance Mode is the ideal place to allow a user to store everything they require for the PERFORMANCE they require for a given tune, except this under discussion - storage of the Perf Control and Mute status. I imagine it will never be changed, nor will the file loading structure, as I suspect both are so entrenched in the code it would take considerable resources to alter.

Perhaps a totally new line to replace (not augment) the Motif line could see a change, who knows...all I know is that the inability to NOT save all panel settings to a location is a, well not a fault as such, hmmm....let’s say an “error of judgement” just my personal view and no doubt many will argue.

However all that said, I have found a alternative by simply assigning the Volume to the knobs and saving that with a performance that works for me, it is simple, quick and requires no menu diving. Although some do like a springboard ;-)

The above methods described by BM are very, very clever, so for others it may be unwise to disregard them. For me, my method does what I need.

The variation would be to assign the foot pedal (FC-7) to the part either assigned to CC7 (Volume) or CC11 (Expression) set to 0, and then apply the pedal when the part is needed.

One big advantage using the Song/Pattern system though, is one is then free to have more than the 4 instruments proscribed by performance mode...however for me, with only 64 slots , makes it unworkable. Heck even 256 Performance slots are not really enough either.

If one had dynamic (storage) access (by that I mean direct loading of a song setup) to unlimited Song setups then I would be using Song/Patten Mode for everything, it is rather a powerful tool.

I am in NO way criticising or condemning the solutions provided by BM, they are quite ingenious, however they are requirements to achieve what , to me, is a very simple task and therefore should be unneccessary.

YMMV - good luck with it.

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Posted on: February 12, 2014 @ 11:44 AM
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

........ then your above methods would be quite acceptable as one could have as many setups under Song/Pattern mode utilising scenes they desired.

I think they actually still are acceptable in spite of your comments.

Heck even 256 Performance slots are not really enough either.

256 keyboard Setups… I never want to sit through your gig, sounds positively exhausting for the audience. I think if 256 Setups is even not enough, I think I’m going to ask you to agree that your requirement is a bit unusual. Because if you think everyone needs what you do.. I invite you to communicate more with others once in a while (between making and memorizing all those Setups).

I feel your pain… I take you at your word ...256 keyboard Setups is not even enough.  Wowsers!  But don’t wait around for your dream keyboard ...  you’ll be dreaming forever.

Don’t want to hurt your head, but really, and I don’t want to pull rank, but you don’t really know enough about the MOXF to make many of the conclusions you draw.

Needing an unlimited array of Setups ... My suggestion… Work a bigger storage device into your rig… A computer perhaps…

MOXF fully loaded FL1024M
Favorite Waveforms ready for access.
Say you own 15 Voice Libraries (128 Voices each) and 10 Sample Libraries
You can install all of your scores and scores of Voices in Cubase MediaBay as VST Presets
Use the MOXF6/MOXF8 Editor VST to to access your setups.
Your computer gives you virtually limitless room for your libraries and every Voice is available without loading!!!

Every Voice you own can be accessed through the Sound Browser
You can even save an unlimited number (means more than you can use) of MIXING Setups which can be arranged so that you can recall them with a single click.

No loading of Voices from various drives, forget that. The Editor can captures your entire MOXF as a snapshot.
Let me say that again… The Editor captures your entire MOXF as a snapshot. And can bulk an entire Mixing setup, every Voice, Mixing Voice, every tweak, your samples are all installed on your Flash Board already, you are moving only MIDI bulk data… Its quick hopefully you get a second between 256+ Setups (or is it non-stop?)

Need 1024 Setups for the gig next Saturday… I’ll take that challenge. Seriously. Unless you’d just like to argue for argument’s sake ... Not enough Voice locations? Got a Computer? Not enough Mixing Setups? Checkout the Editor (some people don’t respect it cause its free, but it’s unbelievably useful

Cubase AI has all of this… Have you looked into it at all? Seriously, I know you think you have some points to make but before you write something off ... I’d take a closer look at what you already have but may not have yet discovered a use for…

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Posted on: February 12, 2014 @ 12:34 PM
Total Posts:  618
Joined  09-22-2005
status: Guru

All I can do is laugh...what a joke! I mean you are joking right? No-one can be this much of a tosser!

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