Hi,

I play my Motif XF in performance mode. I would like to improve sound of Part 1 with some VST sound (MOOG Simulator) through CUBASE 5.
I checked all the option how is the MIDI data send over the MOTIF XF USB-MIDI-Chanel and it (looks) that Part 1 send to MIDI channel 1, Part 2 to MIDI channel 2, ....Part 4 to MIDI channel 4.
The only strange thing is that this channel information is defined under „ARP Other“ Tab in the Performance-Edit-Part Screen.

The problem is when I tray to filter this MIDI channel information to produce sound only from MIDI channel 1 (actually what is sending PART 1 of my performance). I would like to use only this channel because I want to improve sound only of my left hand (PART 1 of my performance).
But I can’t do that. What ever I do with the channel filtering (in CUBASE 5 this is input transformer function) I’m getting MIDI information from complete keyboard, and that include also PART2-PART4. My PART 1 is explicitly defined only on left side of the keyboard. Filtering in CUBASE works just fine with some other MIDI data. I checked that with my second keyboard. It looks that MOTIF is sending all the MIDI data to all 16 MIDI channels what ever you do. MOTIF XF VST is regularly initialized in Cubase and it works just fine when Motif is in “Song” Mode.

Can somebody give me advice or Idea how to solve it? Is this possible? Is somehow foreseen that you can use MIDI data during the performance mode play on MOTIF XF?

regards,
Mario

Welcome to the forum.

Performance mode is not multi-timbral, but the sequencer modes are. If you would like to have the Parts on separate MIDI channels, then you could copy the Performance to a Pattern or Song.

I checked all the option how is the MIDI data send over the MOTIF XF USB-MIDI-Chanel and it (looks) that Part 1 send to MIDI channel 1, Part 2 to MIDI channel 2, ....Part 4 to MIDI channel 4.
The only strange thing is that this channel information is defined under „ARP Other“ Tab in the Performance-Edit-Part Screen.

It is NOT strange that this Channel information is defined under the “Arp Other” Tab, because that’s where the MIDI OUT assignment for the Arpeggio data is made. The Arp data is generated by the XF in response to the incoming control trigger from the XF keyboard.

You checked all the options but concluded wrongly about channel assignments - it is not as you are thinking at all. During the playing of an XF Performance you are only transmitting OUT on a single MIDI Channel from the keys. Besides MIDI receive channel is not an editable PART function, in Performance mode, period.

Facts
First, an external device is not apart of the Motif XF. The Arpeggios are designed to trigger the XF primarily. Therefore this requires some additional thought and programming.
Second, the arpeggiators themselves are physically located between the XF Keyboard and the XF Tone Generator.
Third, all four Parts of a Performance are addressed on a single MIDI channel…
After all, if your were to plug in a MIDI cable to play the XF Performance from an external controller how do you think all four PARTS are all played by you, at the same time. All Voice mode and all Performance mode is addressed on the single BASIC MIDI RECEIVE Channel.
Fourth, the Motif XF keyboard can only transmit on one MIDI channel at a time (Master mode is the only exception)
The Arp generated data can be routed OUT via MIDI on any MIDI Channel.
The XF does not use MIDI to trigger itself internally in this instance.

Obviously (not strangely) the channel OUT information is generated after the Arpeggio data is generated.
Keyboard --> Arpeggiator --> Tone Generator --> OUT via MIDI

We are not sure and you don’t state what your exact goal is, other you think you are going to improve the sound. For what purpose, recording? Just playing?
If you are recording - I highly recommend you record the Performance data to the MOTIF XF sequencer using the Direct Performance Record function, let the XF do the channel setting as it normally does. Then on playback pick whatever tone generator sound you think improves the sound. 

What you are not appreciating is what the XF does between the time you record using Direct Performance record and the time when you playback. It copies the four parts of the Performance to four parts of a Mixing and reassigns the MIDI channel. If you were to connect the MIDI Out while playing an Performance what is output is exactly what you play… Same as always. If you want to additionally trigger an external Tone Generator you will need Activate the MIDI OUT, and select a MIDI Channel, then to prevent it from playing all the data you will need to edit that receiving tone engine to behave exactly like the XF internal Part… Including matching the PART’s NOTE LIMIT regions.

If your goal is just to play (not record) you will need to setup the Cubase INPUT TRANSFORMER (Local) to “"Filter" all Channel data that is “Unequal” to CHANNEL “2”, for example. Then set the Arpeggio PART you wish to OUTPUT to the external tone generator so that its Arp OUTPUT SWITCH = ON, and the MIDI Channel is set to 2.

Finally, Press [PERFORMANCE CONTROL], and use the PART MUTE button to silence the internal XF Part assigned to respond to the arpeggio data.

That should work… Let us know.

Other methods to tackle this I’m sure exist but the facts will remain the facts. Using a MIXING TEMPLATE where the Parts are on separate MIDI channels, and MASTER mode to address the MIXING on four separate Channels… Is also a possibility… But you did not specify if this is for play only or record…

Hi Bad_Mister

Thanks for support. I didn’t write any criticism. I was simply asking is this possible.  What was „strange“ to me was if we defining something using MIDI channel terminology, why is this not visible outside of the MOTIF (as MIDI information). I’m sure that MOTIF doesn’t need MIDI channels to exchange information’s between the inside modules. When you press record in performance it is even drawn this small 5pin DIN icon to symbolize MIDI channel, but it is not like this.

I want to play in performance mode, I don’t want to record my performance. To play live, with my band.

Goal: I found one very nice performance that is close to the „Shine on your Crazy Diamonds“, and I just want to improve sound of the left hand (part 1,2,3 of the performance) with some VST MOOG simulator through Cubase. MOTIF left hand sounds („Everlasting Glory“ Part 1 + „Dreaming of You“ Part 2 + „Trancious Line“ Part 3) together with this VST Rumpelrausch MOOG sound even better as original (apologize if I insult somebody). I don’t want that my right hand play also this VST.
What you propose is not working. Whatever I do in performance mode, complete keyboard is going out to all 16 MIDI channels, I check that with USB-MIDI and classical MIDI. Even when I mute and switch all the ARPs and parts, still everything is going out on every channel. So the chanell filtering will not help.

I finally solve it with CUBASE input transformer, but not as channel filtering than with the following sequence:

Filter settings
Type is Equal Note And
Value 1 Bigger E4

This filters everything above E4 note, and practically this is my right hand

The main idea behind is that performances inside the MOTIF are great source for inspiration and creativity. Sometimes it need just a small „touch“ to became really great and even new song. Sometimes this „touch“ is done via external tone generator or whatever. So the question is if we are in performance mode and defining something like MIDI channel, why is this not visible outside.

I’m writing this because this is not the first time that I have similar difficulties (I don’t want to use word „problem“). I found some very good performance, I want to give it just a small touch, and actually MIDI channels information’s are not visible outside of MOTIF.

If you say it is not possible OK, I will change the principle here, and in future use SONG mode instead. But this require more effort.

Regards,
Mario

varehahparlag - 16 January 2014 02:46 PM

[...]I’m sure that MOTIF doesn’t need MIDI channels to exchange information’s between the inside modules. When you press record in performance it is even drawn this small 5pin DIN icon to symbolize MIDI channel, but it is not like this. [...]

You might want to take a look at the diagram on page 8 of the XF Reference Manual, and make note of the connections indicated with black arrows (MIDI messages flow).

MIDI isn’t limited to connections made via optically isolated current loop ports.

Sorry I wasn’t clear but I just tried this and it works fine (even without using the INPUT TRANSFORMER).

Let’s see if I can recount what I did:

on the Motif XF:
I turned KEYBOARD TRANSMIT CHANNEL = OFF (this is unnecessary to trigger the internal tone generator, and will prevent you from triggering your external module with what you play on the Motif XF Keyboard. (Very Important… I may have left this out - but was the first thing I did when actually sat at the Motif XF).

Next I call up a PERFORMANCE - in the one I used the BASS was in PART 2 so I:
Press [PERFORMANCE CONTROL]
Press [10] to MUTE the internal BASS PART

Press [EDIT]
select PART [2]
Press [F3] ARP OTHER
Set MIDI OUT SWITCH = ON
Set MIDI OUT CHANNEL = 2
(actually the channel out is only significant if the external soft synth lets you set MIDI channel - some soft synths simply receive any MIDI incoming signal… and since the only MIDI coming in from the Motif XF will be the ARP PART that is set with MIDI OUT SWITCH = ON...)

In Cubase
Launched VST
I used Arturial ANALOG FACTORY (which lets you set a MIDI IN channel) and then tried YC-3B which receives ‘any’ incoming channel… both worked in the place of the internal BASS part.

I did not need the INPUT TRANSFORMER, nor did I need to do any elaborate filtering of NOTE Regions - Setting the KEYBOARD TRANSMIT CHANNEL = OFF is the key. It prevents the keys you play from transmitting into the computer - only the ARP with its OUT SWITCH active arrives in Cubase. Make Sense?

It was easier than we thought.

Hope that helps.