I have a MOXF Performance that has the following:

1) Stereo Drums, with an ARP, as Voice one.
2) Mono Bass, with no ARP, as Voice two.
3) Stereo Horns, with an ARP, as Voice three.
4) Stereo EP, with no ARP, as Voice four.

I want to record just two tracks simultaneously from that Performance, those being the Drums and Bass.

I know how to assign the outputs of the MOXF usb/audio interface and will do so as:
1) Drums assigned to channel 1 & 2.
2) Bass, panned far left, to channel 3.

On my DAW, I know how to set up Track 1 as a stereo track and will set up track 2 as a mono track.

I know how to assign the inputs on the DAW for each audio track.

One the drums and bass are recorded I will next make a third stereo track on my DAW and set that track to receive on input one and two and will record the Horns, with ARPs.

Two questions:
1) When I record/play the Horns (with its ARP), will the Horns will be in perfect sync with the Drum and Bass Tracks? 
2) Can the above be done without sequencing?

1) When I record/play the Horns (with its ARP), will the Horns will be in perfect sync with the Drum and Bass Tracks?

If YOU play in time the ARP will always be sync’d - whether or not YOU start early or late will determine if the data is recorded in “perfect sync"(Sic). Just as if you were not using the arp - the start of the first note is ON YOU!!!

By the way - there is only perfect sync. Sync that is imperfect is by definition NOT SYNC’d.

2) Can the above be done without sequencing?

Yes, long before there was MIDI you could record AUDIO. AUDIO recording predates MIDI sequencing by more than a century. Seriously. Why would you not be able to record this without sequencing?

I sense a TRICK QUESTION here. You are kidding, right? :-)

Perhaps the use of ARPEGGIOS (clearly a 20th Century invention) is clouding the issue here about what can and cannot be recorded in “perfect sync” et al… But Audio recording (a 19th Century invention) simply requires you deliver the audio signal to the recording device for you to capture it.

You are complicating the entire issue by thinking you need to record these items separately and directly to your DAW. Yet in none of your posts on this have you stated why you are approaching this the way you are approaching it. (I guess you feel there is some benefit for this methodology… we are not sure we see it just yet).

If I had to guess, you are running into issues starting the ARPEGGIO in sync with the rest of your recording. It is no more difficult than starting to play at the end of a count-in - but because it is somewhat automated you have some trepidation about doing this. Because if you miss the first note, the entire phrase will be OFF… Pressure!!!

If that is the case, then why not let the technology work for you?

Start with an entirely different approach - I’m sure I’ve suggested this to you before - but you didn’t pick up on it (you have a fear of MIDI)
:-)
Let the TECHNOLOGY WORK FOR YOU.

Record your data PERFORMANCE to the one piece of gear that was designed to record your playing four PARTS at once without much trouble at all. (Yes, the MOXF) It’s as easy as 1-2-3 (F1-F2-F3 that is):

Call up your PERFORMANCE
Press [RECORD]
The [F1] SETUP Screen appears
Set the target to a blank SONG
Press [F2] REC TR
Set the target to Tracks 1-4
Press [F3] OTHER
Set the KEY ON START = ON

Record your PERFORMANCE to the MOXF sequencer… rinse and repeat until you are happy with how it sounds on playback.

NOW - you have all your basic tracks with your four parts all recorded - as you say it is no problem for you to record this all at once…

Now you can take off your musician hat and put on your engineering hat.
Now you will find that there is no hassle in transferring the data to your DAW - all you need to do is sync the clocks and send the PARTS over as AUDIO at your convenience… No muss, no fuss.

I’ll just state this again for the record. Don’t make things more difficult than they need to be. Use the best tool for the job and stop stressing!!!!

Hope that helps…

Can the above be done without sequencing?

Yes, long before there was MIDI you could record AUDIO. AUDIO recording predates MIDI sequencing by more than a century. Seriously. Why would you not be able to record this without sequencing?

Phil, would you agree with me that on the majority of the favorite songs you and I like, the music/musicians were not in perfect time (synced) together?

If I had to guess, you are running into issues starting the ARPEGGIO in sync with the rest of your recording. It is no more difficult than starting to play at the end of a count-in - but because it is somewhat automated you have some trepidation about doing this. Because if you miss the first note, the entire phrase will be OFF… Pressure!!!

Of course I know how to start at the end of a count in. :-)

I just assumed (uh-oh) that the ARP’s HAD to be synced to work/record correctly.

Record your PERFORMANCE to the MOXF sequencer… rinse and repeat until you are happy with how it sounds on playback.

NOW - you have all your basic tracks with your four parts all recorded - as you say it is no problem for you to record this all at once…

If I record to the Song Mode, can I still go into the Song and replace any part of any Track that I wish to do so on?

Now you can take off your musician hat and put on your engineering hat.
Now you will find that there is no hassle in transferring the data to your DAW - all you need to do is sync the clocks and send the PARTS over as AUDIO at your convenience… No muss, no fuss.

I’ll just state this again for the record. Don’t make things more difficult than they need to be. Use the best tool for the job and stop stressing!!!!

Hope that helps…

Ya’ got that right! It’s the recording part (at least for now :-)) that stresses old Jerry!

Thanks,

Jerry

This has nothing to do with live musicianship and great musicians you like not being perfectly in time.  You seem to be getting a bit too concerned about that. 

It is nothing to do with the quality your musicianship OR a suggestion that all music in the whole world should be strictly in time with such ridiculous precision.

It’s purely about what happens when you are in a situation where you have to combine a new ARP with a previously recorded ARP...and you need to maintain their timing relationship.

Do you think when Bad_Mister tells you that you should convert your Performance into the MOXF sequencer first, that he is telling you for fun or to be awkward?

He’s not telling you because he thinks you suck at playing keyboards in time, he’s telling you because the nature of ARPs is that their timing is strictly regimented, so even if you are the slightest bit loose on starting one against another you already recorded, they will both be strictly out of time with one another for their duration - this will not be the same as what you get when you play live in your trio.

When you play live with your trio, you have the luxury of everything being in time no matter what, because you are playing all 4 parts together, in one go.

When you come to multi track the parts separately, you lose that luxury and you have to find a way of getting them back in time like they were.

Bad_Mister is giving you a way to prepare your music so you can multi track your parts individually but maintain the timing that you are used to when you play the Performance live. 

Nothing more and nothing less.

How about the answer to the question “If I record to the Song Mode, can I still go into the Song and replace any part of any Track that I wish to do so on?”

Thanks again!

Jerry

Yes,

Song mode is the internal sequencer on your MOXF, so if you understand how to use it, then you will be able to edit and move things around to your hearts content.

If you don’t know how to use it then you might have more questions to ask.

If you do as Bad_Mister suggested, you will be a very happy man, in the end.

Could be a big turning point, Jerry.

:-)

Bad_Mister, sorry to butt in.

philwoodmusic - 15 January 2014 12:08 PM

Yes,

Song mode is the internal sequencer on your MOXF, so if you understand how to use it, then you will be able to edit and move things around to your hearts content.

If you don’t know how to use it then you might have more questions to ask.

If you do as Bad_Mister suggested. you will be a very happy man, ultimately, in the end.

Could be a big turning point, Jerry.

:-)

I hope so :-)

Last question for this afternoon.

If the track has an ARP on it and I want to replace a section it, can I do so?

Thanks!

Yes, of course. Once the Arp is recorded to a Track of the sequencer, it is no longer an “Arp”. It is MIDI event data written to the track. Any one who was not there when you recorded it would know that it actually originated as an Arpeggio. In other words, it now looks exactly like any other Track’s data.
You can edit it, erase it, mute it, re-record it, punch-in/out, etc., it’s now just like any other MIDI data.

@philwoodsmusic
You’re not butting in, in fact, thanks for your contribution. I can tell our friend jerrydpi is a bit confused with use of arpeggios. I think between of the newness and the MIDI intimidation, there is a lot to take in.

I think one has to use it for a while to realize that, yes it is possible to be out of time, when using arpeggios… And that this is actually a feature!

But even if you start the arp 60 clock ticks late… (And as we both were trying to explain..) The entire arp phrase will be faithfully 60 clock tick offset… It is regimented data, so start point is critical ( and as humans we are not ever really on time… We are more off time than on time, and that’s just fine!

But arps off time can be, well, disturbing due to their consistency in being off :-)

As MIDI data this offset is an easy fix. And that’s the beauty of MIDI!

MIDI is used in today’s composing/studio recording environment to ‘perfect’ the performance before committing it to audio. And this would be particularly useful in the MOXF since it has just a dual stereo audio output configuration.

What I was suggesting was that by utilizing Direct Performance Record initially, the playing performance of the PERFORMANCE could be documented in its entirety - then at leisure, the PARTs could be transferred to the DAW as audio… In multiple passes as necessary.

This way you get to optimize the MOXF as an instrument.

Thanks Phil² !

Last questions before I try it tonight.

I know how to set up on my DAW track 1 as a stereo track with input on bus 1 & 2, and I know how to set up the drums to output on channels 1 & 2.

I know how to set up on my DAW track 2 as mono track with input on bus 3.

1) On the MOXF, do I set the channel output for the bass as 3 & 4 and then pan the bass voice far left?

2) If I want to play (not record) an ep while I’m recording track 1 & 2, do I set the ep to output on 3 & 4 and then pan the ep Voice far right?

The reason I ask (2) is because when I was recording track 1 & 2 last night I kept getting some bleed of the ep on track 2 (the bass guitar).

3) How do I have the two measure “count in” we talked about if I’m the Song Mode?