Hallo MOXF users!

I bought my MOXF8 a couple of weeks ago and started to use it intensively.

I noted a very bad issue: when I press the same key over and over the sound changes!! Sometimes brighter, sometimes harder, sometimes softer...???

I mean quite a lot!  So it is not possible to repeat a phrase with the same feeling.

For example I noted it with the Fender sounds and with the Brass.
The fender sometime shoots a SBANG! out of the blue and the brass loose the brightness.

With other sounds it does not happen, for example with the natural pianos or organs.

I also tried to edit every single part of a voice but I see no difference..

This is really annoying.... is my keyboard defect?

partyband - 02 January 2014 09:30 AM

[...]This is really annoying.... is my keyboard defect?

Unlikely.

If you give us an example or two of specific Voices that do what you’re writing about, we can probably tell you why they sound the way they do.

Thank you for you reply.

Please see for example

Pre4: 104 (G08) Shiny Brass
Pre1: 028 (B12) Hard Vintage
Pre1: 026 (B10) Crunchy Comp

partyband - 02 January 2014 09:30 AM

Hallo MOXF users!

I bought my MOXF8 a couple of weeks ago and started to use it intensively.

I noted a very bad issue: when I press the same key over and over the sound changes!! Sometimes brighter, sometimes harder, sometimes softer...???

I mean quite a lot!  So it is not possible to repeat a phrase with the same feeling.

For example I noted it with the Fender sounds and with the Brass.
The fender sometime shoots a SBANG! out of the blue and the brass loose the brightness.

With other sounds it does not happen, for example with the natural pianos or organs.

I also tried to edit every single part of a voice but I see no difference..

This is really annoying.... is my keyboard defect?

Hi,
this is not a bug, it’s a feature ;-)
Sounds can be programmed to respond on how hard you hit the keys.
Some sounds use velocity switching to switch between several samples to get a more realistic sound like a natural instrument would behave.
Other sounds may use dynamic filter settings.
There are even more options to alternate the sound thru the ammount of velocity (how hard you hit the keys).

You could record several takes keep only the best or
you may edit the velocity after recording with Cubase.
You could set up a fixed velocity but then you loose the
ability of musical expression and this would sound not natural.

Hallo pospel2

I do not think it is a matter of velocity.
I have used keyboards for 20 years and never heard such funky random changes. Even if I play quite steady still the sound changes dramatically.

I think I will go to the store and test another MOXF8

partyband - 02 January 2014 09:40 AM

Thank you for you reply.

Please see for example

Pre4: 104 (G08) Shiny Brass
Pre1: 028 (B12) Hard Vintage
Pre1: 026 (B10) Crunchy Comp

As popsel2 noted, these Voices change sound depending on Velocity (how hard you play a key).

Look at the Velocity Limit setting for each active Element of these Voices. An obvious example, in Pre4: 104 (G08) Shiny Brass, Element 5 Velocity Limit is 1-70, Element 6 is 71-100, and Element 7 is 101-127. That causes switching of the Waveform between Brass Sect2 Soft, Med, and Hard, depending on how you hit the key.

partyband - 02 January 2014 09:51 AM

I do not think it is a matter of velocity.
I have used keyboards for 20 years and never heard such funky random changes. Even if I play quite steady still the sound changes dramatically.

I think I will go to the store and test another MOXF8

If you happen to play “steady”, but near the Velocity where there’s switching between Elements, you’ll find it difficult to not get what you’re experiencing.

By the way, another thing that can introduce some apparent randomness to how things sound is if there’s a MIDI feedback loop occurring. If you have the MOXF connected via MIDI (5-pin-DIN or USB), try disconnecting that and see if things change.

However, the switching of Voice Elements due to key Velocity creates a more dramatic/noticeable difference.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will try to set all velocity limits at the same values and see what happens.

partyband - 02 January 2014 10:12 AM

Thank you for the suggestion. I will try to set all velocity limits at the same values and see what happens.

OK, but if you do that then all of the Elements will sound at the same time. That might not sound very good, either. Instead, you could try setting the Velocity limit to 1-127 for some, and turn off the other elements.

Ok I just tried… mmmhhh it seems it is really a matter o velocity of each sample....

I will have to work on the sound to make them more linear… strange issue anyhow… I wonder how they programmed the sound in the first instance.

I noted that there is a standard velocity cut: 1-80 and 81-127.
It is applied to Fender and Brass.
Probably is it not a good idea to use always the same parameters.

partyband - 02 January 2014 10:34 AM

Ok I just tried… mmmhhh it seems it is really a matter o velocity of each sample....

I will have to work on the sound to make them more linear… strange issue anyhow… I wonder how they programmed the sound in the first instance. [...]

If you’re unhappy with a Preset Voice, you should definitely edit it and store your version to a User Bank location.

However, you might come across some Voices where the Velocity Limit setting doesn’t seem to be the cause, or the “cure”. In those cases, the Waveforms being used might be ones that have velocity switching built in.

I noted a very bad issue: when I press the same key over and over the sound changes!! Sometimes brighter, sometimes harder, sometimes softer...???

I mean quite a lot!  So it is not possible to repeat a phrase with the same feeling.

For example I noted it with the Fender sounds and with the Brass.
The fender sometime shoots a SBANG! out of the blue and the brass loose the brightness.

With other sounds it does not happen, for example with the natural pianos or organs.

I also tried to edit every single part of a voice but I see no difference..

This is really annoying.... is my keyboard defect?

Just a thought… if you have the MASTER EFFECT set to ON, you will inherit whatever it is set to for all VOICES in VOICE mode.

And there can be some pretty wacky effects active in the MASTER EFFECT. Make sure you turn the [MASTER EFFECT] button OFF - otherwise you inherit whatever it is set to for each VOICE.

If this is not it, then I recommend you perform a FACTORY SET. This will return all settings to factory defaults (please SAVE all of your custom data, if any to a USB stick BEFORE executing the Factory Set):

Press [UTILITY]
Press [JOB]
Press [ENTER]
Press [ENTER]

This will restore the MOXF to factory conditions. If that does not fix it - Let us know.

I’ll toss out one more thought, though I don’t think its likely a factor in this particular case… Yamahas have a number of “random” parameters that can be invoked to add a more “human” or “organic” variation to the sounds. Open the PDF of the reference manual and search for the word “random” and you’ll find a bunch of parameters that can be invoked specifically to create random variations of sound.

You may try changing your keyboard velocity curve in Utility Mode to see which one best suit your playing style/weight.

Cheers

partyband - 02 January 2014 09:40 AM

Thank you for you reply.

Please see for example

Pre4: 104 (G08) Shiny Brass
Pre1: 028 (B12) Hard Vintage
Pre1: 026 (B10) Crunchy Comp

I am not that familiar with Shiny Brass, but I use the two Rhodes VOICES quite a bit.

The velocity dynamics built into these VOICES are what really makes them true EP VOICES!

Did you ever play an actual Rhodes piano back in the 70’s?  The 80’s?  Night after night?  The 20 years you have been playing keyboards means you started well after the Rhodes era was over.  That is exactly how they play...hit ‘em hard in the upper registers and go get your hearing checked the next day.  Hit ‘em hard in the lower register and then listen for a while to try to pick the pitch out of the fuzzy 2-1/2” physical vacillation of the tine!

Of all the EP’s, Rhodes are the most susceptible to exaggerated dynamic peaks at high velocity.  And all of the really good Rhodes emulations stay true to this very annoying reality!

What you are really saying is that you have discovered there are very harsh velocity dynamics associated with Fender Rhodes sounds.

Well, yes there are.  And welcome to the club, I long ago gladly sold every “real” Rhodes I ever owned (There were several, sorry Rhodes guys).  But ya just gotta play them for a lot of stuff these days (thanks Yamaha Motif)!

I really don’t think there is anything wrong with your keyboard.