Hi,
Some settings of the Wave Editor I can not import into my MOXF6.

I created a test “drum set”, containing a single drum sample at C3. This time I startet from scratch. By selecting File -> NEW MOTIF XF ALL FILE , then right click and select NEW Waveform, then right click and Import Keybanks. Next import one drum sample and set a keyrange from C3 to C3 (one note).
After clicking the VOICES tab and click on DR:User I made a right click and choose initialize. Again a right click and select Edit Waveforms. Then clicked on C3 note on the displayed keyboard and selected USR from the popup menu below.
Now my own waveform is displayed at the right.
Notice that the USE box is already set active (keep it).
Then click OK and save as X3A file.

After import the X3A file (import Voice, select a unused Drum Set memory and checked Import with samples )to my MOXF6 this is the result:

1. The C3 key “Element SW” is set to off. I had to switch it on manually. It was set to “ON” at the Wave Editor (active checkbox was set).

2. The preprogrammed “Wave Bank” is not set to the flash (user) memory but to “Preset”. Again I had to correct this after import. It was set to “USER” at the Wave Editor.

3. Now the drum sample is working at C3 key.

Here are some screenshots and I attached the generated X3A file.
May somebody can import this in a MOTIF XF and report if the C3 drum sample is working without the corrections I had to do with my MOXF6 ?

Regards
popsel2

OneDrum.zip  (File Size: 10KB - Downloads: 215)

I have an XF. I downloaded your OneDrum.zip file and unzipped it. The result was a 23 KB .X3A file. Typical .X3A files without samples are about 2 MB. That already was a concern.

I next loaded your OneDrum C3 kit to a location in my UDR bank. I had the XF’s Load settings as follows (defaults):
USR > USR
FL1 > FL1
FL2 > FL2
All the keys (except C3) played a snare drum, as expected with an initialized kit. There was no sound when C3 was played - as you had found, the Element Switch was “off”, so I turned it “on”. There still was no sound from C3.

An explanation is needed before I go further…
Due to their hardware not being the same, the XF and MOXF use different terms relating to User memory. The XF has 128 MB SDRAM sample memory (referred to as “USR"), and two optional flash modules ("FL1" and “FL2"). As you know, the MOXF has no SDRAM sample memory, and Yamaha refers to the flash module as “User” memory. Therefore, if you direct a sample to “USR” while working with an XF editor, it will not be pointed to a flash module.

Getting back to the lack of sound from C3…
The C3 key was set to Wave Bank “USR”, Wave Number “0001”. I checked - there was no Waveform there. Selecting FL1 or FL2 didn’t help, and I verified that there was nothing related to your Drum Kit in the Waveform List of either flash module.

So, part of the problem might be due to the User memory terminology difference between the XF and MOXF. However, I’m not sure what explains a 23KB .X3A ALL file. I’ll take a closer look at it when I get a chance.

5pinDIN - 29 December 2013 06:00 AM

Getting back to the lack of sound from C3…
However, I’m not sure what explains a 23KB .X3A ALL file. I’ll take a closer look at it when I get a chance.

Hi,

the unzipped file size is correct. There is one Waveform with one sample included, like shown on the screenshots. My MOXF6 automatic installed the Waveform and the single drum sample. I can hear it after activating the parameters (which should be already set correct in the X3A file produced by the Wave Editor). I was interesed, if this X3A file produce a sound on a MOTIF XF without correcting the parameters because the Wave Editor is disigned for this model.

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know.

Regards
popsel2

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know.

In this thread you are - not sure if it is related or not - but seems it might be.

Bad_Mister - 29 December 2013 07:00 AM

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know.

In this thread you are - not sure if it is related or not - but seems it might be.

Hi!

This is an other topic and is clear now that I found the correct drum map.

Here, I wonder why I don’t get no sound on the single defined key when I already set all parameters in the Wave Editor.
Why I have to enter parameters again manually ?

1. The C3 key “Element SW” is set to off. I had to switch it on manually. It was set to “ON” at the Wave Editor (active checkbox was set).

2. The preprogrammed “Wave Bank” is not set to the flash (user) memory but to “Preset”. Again I had to correct this after import. It was set to “USER” at the Wave Editor.

OK ?

Regards
popsel2

I have not really followed what you are doing… Making a file that is 23KB as an ALL data file? Really, not surprised it has some errors and does not behave properly. Not sure what happens or how that is even possible… Sounds like you shouldn’t be able to create a file that incomplete… I’m surprised it loads it at all, although I guess it doesn’t see anything illegal. But 23kb just doesn’t sound right at all. How big is the wav?

Perhaps it is not including the audio sample, at all. There maybe a sample size that is too small, just as there is limit on too large (64Mb).

Sorry, I’m on a tablet and cannot download and explore this now.

Just a suggestion: Why not create an entire file ... With actual Voices in it....  Not sure it will make a difference. But maybe during the week I can take a look at building a drum kit from custom samples using the Editor and then offer some suggestions.

popsel2 - 29 December 2013 06:43 AM

5pinDIN - 29 December 2013 06:00 AM

Getting back to the lack of sound from C3…
However, I’m not sure what explains a 23KB .X3A ALL file. I’ll take a closer look at it when I get a chance.

Hi,

the unzipped file size is correct. There is one Waveform with one sample included, like shown on the screenshots. My MOXF6 automatic installed the Waveform and the single drum sample. I can hear it after activating the parameters (which should be already set correct in the X3A file produced by the Wave Editor). I was interesed, if this X3A file produce a sound on a MOTIF XF without correcting the parameters because the Wave Editor is disigned for this model.

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know.

Regards
popsel2

I initially loaded your OneDrum C3 as a single Voice, because I didn’t want to overwrite anything more than I had to. As I explained previously, when I did that, the Waveform that should have been associated didn’t load to any of the XF memory locations.

Since I had backed up my own data, I then decided to load OneDrum.X3A as an All file. Loaded that way, OneDrum C3 played correctly on my XF without making any changes. The Element Switch was on, and the DMX BD Waveform was where expected, although probably not where you expected it to be.

As I said before, Yamaha chose to use different terminology in naming the User memory in the XF and MOXF. “USR” memory in the XF does not designate a flash module - DMX BD winds up in the SDRAM on an XF. You could try setting FL1 for the memory location (instead of USR) in the Wave Editor, but I have no idea if that will cause the a MOXF to load the .X3A file with the Waveform/Sample directed to its flash module.

In loading your file as “all”, I also determined why it’s only 23 KB - every User location other than UDR A01 is initialized. That’s every other Voice, every Performance, Song, and Pattern. Since I don’t have the Melas software (other than demos), could you explain how you created OneDrum.X3A? How did all those locations get initialized?

@5pinDIN

As I said before, Yamaha chose to use different terminology in naming the User memory in the XF and MOXF. “USR” memory in the XF does not designate a flash module - DMX BD winds up in the SDRAM on an XF. You could try setting FL1 for the memory location (instead of USR) in the Wave Editor, but I have no idea if that will cause the a MOXF to load the .X3A file with the sample directed to its flash module.

The Motif XF has three folders for its Waveform data… USR, FL1, FL2

The MOXF is uncomplicated, you don’t have “point” or direct the data anywhere when you are loading… It only has one place to go, the Flash Board. The MOXF, when asked to import data from a Motif XF file, can access a Voice, when it does it then looks in the appropriate Folder and gathers everything it needs to make that Voice sound, whether the Waveform data is in USR (SDRAM) or one of the Flash Boards or all three ...(imagine a drum kit that had some Waveforms in USR, some Waveforms on FL1, and some Waveforms on FL2… Loading that drum kit the MOXF would simply copy the data it needs to make that Kit play and install it on the Flash Board. Its folder of origin is not important. It simply loads the Waveform data one after the other to the lowest numbered empty location on the Flash Board… And automatically re points the Voice data to the Waveform’s new location.

That’s why once imported to the MOXF, the MOXF owner should make a new backup File of that data.
Make sense?

It is true in both instruments the location of a Waveform is dynamic… Meaning the fact that the Waveform is in a certain location when the Voice is originally made is of little consequence when you selectively load Individual Voice… If the original slot number is occupied, the instruments looks for another and updates the data in the Voice. Waveform location is dynamic.

The MOXF refers to the 3977 factory Waveforms as “Preset” and the 2048 you can install on the Flash Noard as “User”.

No reference is made to FL1 or FL2.

Bad_Mister - 29 December 2013 08:04 AM

I have not really followed what you are doing… Making a file that is 23KB as an ALL data file? Really, not surprised it has some errors and does not behave properly. Not sure what happens or how that is even possible… Sounds like you shouldn’t be able to create a file that incomplete… I’m surprised it loads it at all, although I guess it doesn’t see anything illegal. But 23kb just doesn’t sound right at all. How big is the wav?

Perhaps it is not including the audio sample, at all. There maybe a sample size that is too small, just as there is limit on too large (64Mb).

Sorry, I’m on a tablet and cannot download and explore this now.

Just a suggestion: Why not create an entire file ... With actual Voices in it....  Not sure it will make a difference. But maybe during the week I can take a look at building a drum kit from custom samples using the Editor and then offer some suggestions.

Hi!

With the provided screenshots and the above description it should be clear how I made this test drumset.

I created a test “drum set”, containing a single drum sample at C3. This time I startet from scratch. By selecting File -> NEW MOTIF XF ALL FILE , then right click and select NEW Waveform, then right click and Import Keybanks. Next import one drum sample and set a keyrange from C3 to C3 (one note).
After clicking the VOICES tab and click on DR:User I made a right click and choose initialize. Again a right click and select Edit Waveforms. Then clicked on C3 note on the displayed keyboard and selected USR from the popup menu below.
Now my own waveform is displayed at the right.
Notice that the USE box is already set active (keep it).
Then click OK and save as X3A file.

The sample has a size of 11.6 kB (have attached it here).
Yes, the sample is included because my MOXF was loading (installing) it.
Please note: I can not import my MOXF data to the Wave Editor due the lack of X6A / X6V import ablility. So I cam not create an entire file, only importing X3A / X3V files from others since I don’t have a MOTIF XF.

OK, I hope this is clear to you.

Regards
popsel2

DMX BD_127_36.zip  (File Size: 9KB - Downloads: 204)

Bad_Mister - 29 December 2013 08:25 AM

@5pinDIN

As I said before, Yamaha chose to use different terminology in naming the User memory in the XF and MOXF. “USR” memory in the XF does not designate a flash module - DMX BD winds up in the SDRAM on an XF. You could try setting FL1 for the memory location (instead of USR) in the Wave Editor, but I have no idea if that will cause the a MOXF to load the .X3A file with the sample directed to its flash module.

The Motif XF has three folders for its Waveform data… USR, FL1, FL2

The MOXF is uncomplicated, you don’t have “point” or direct the data anywhere when you are loading… It only has one place to go, the Flash Board. The MOXF, when asked to import data from a Motif XF file, can access a Voice, when it does it then looks in the appropriate Folder and gathers everything it needs to make that Voice sound, whether the Waveform data is in USR (SDRAM) or one of the Flash Boards or all three ...(imagine a drum kit that had some Waveforms in USR, some Waveforms on FL1, and some Waveforms on FL2… Loading that drum kit the MOXF would simply copy the data it needs to make that Kit play and install it on the Flash Board. Its folder of origin is not important. It simply loads the Waveform data one after the other to the lowest numbered empty location on the Flash Board… And automatically re points the Voice data to the Waveform’s new location.

That’s why once imported to the MOXF, the MOXF owner should make a new backup File of that data.
Make sense?

It is true in both instruments the location of a Waveform is dynamic… Meaning the fact that the Waveform is in a certain location when the Voice is originally made is of little consequence when you selectively load Individual Voice… If the original slot number is occupied, the instruments looks for another and updates the data in the Voice. Waveform location is dynamic.

The MOXF refers to the 3977 factory Waveforms as “Preset” and the 2048 you can install on the Flash Noard as “User”.

No reference is made to FL1 or FL2.

@Bad_Mister

Perhaps you’re unaware of this, but popsel2 is apparently using the XF version of the Melas Wave Editor. It appears that the “uncomplicated” MOXF gets confused by .X3A files created using the Melas software. It seems popsel2 is finding that loading the .X3A file he created to his MOXF resulted in the Wave Bank pointing to “Preset”, rather than “USER”. Since he wasn’t getting the expected result with the .X3A file, I explained the difference in architecture so that popsel2 might be able to look into a possible fix so that a Melas-generated file had the correct Wave Bank pointer when loaded to the MOXF.

Of course, USR, FL1, and FL2 are XF designations - but popsel2 is creating an XF .X3A file!

5pinDIN - 29 December 2013 08:55 AM

Perhaps you’re unaware of this, but popsel2 is apparently using the XF version of the Melas Wave Editor. It appears that the “uncomplicated” MOXF gets confused by .X3A files created using the Melas software. It seems popsel2 is finding that loading the .X3A file he created to his MOXF resulted in the Wave Bank pointing to “Preset”, rather than “USER”. Since he wasn’t getting the expected result with the .X3A file, I explained the difference in architecture so that popsel2 might be able to look into a possible fix so that a Melas-generated file had the correct Wave Bank pointer when loaded to the MOXF.

This is true.
I do not get what I had entered in the Wave Editor ;-)
I get the Root Note and Keybank range anf the samples get installed. Why I have to switch the Waveform on again and why I have to reselect the flash module when these settings were made already in the Wave Editor ?
;-)

Regards
popsel2

popsel2 - 29 December 2013 09:05 AM

This is true.
I do not get what I had entered in the Wave Editor ;-)
I get the Root Note and Keybank range anf the samples get installed. Why I have to switch the Waveform on again and why I have to reselect the flash mosule when these settings were made already in the Wave Editor ?
;-)

Regards
popsel2

As I said, if I load the .X3A file into my XF as “all”, the Element Switch is already on and the Waveform is in the XF USR Wave Bank, exactly where you apparently set it to be in the Editor. Why I can’t load just the individual Drum Voice successfully into the XF is another issue.

There are obviously some compatibility issues - without more examples, it’s difficult to determine which might be related to possible quirks in the Melas software, and which to how the MOXF interprets “XF” file data (that might not actually have come from an XF).

5pinDIN - 29 December 2013 09:15 AM

popsel2 - 29 December 2013 09:05 AM

This is true.
I do not get what I had entered in the Wave Editor ;-)
I get the Root Note and Keybank range anf the samples get installed. Why I have to switch the Waveform on again and why I have to reselect the flash mosule when these settings were made already in the Wave Editor ?
;-)

Regards
popsel2

As I said, if I load the .X3A file into my XF as “all”, the Element Switch is already on and the Waveform is in the XF USR Wave Bank, exactly where you apparently set it to be in the Editor.

There are obviously some compatibility issues - without more examples, it’s difficult to determine which might be related to possible quirks in the Melas software, and which to how the MOXF interprets “XF” file data (that might not actually have come from an XF).

That’s why I ask for a test with a MOTIF XF (thank you 5PinDin) to see if there might be a problem with the created X3A file or a problem with the “import translation” the MOXF is doing on X3A files.
Here I noticed that included samples sometimes get not installed if the source is an X3V file. So I choosed the X3A file, even if there is only one voice used.

What more example files do you have in mind ?

Regards
popael2

Perhaps you’re unaware of this, but popsel2 is apparently using the XF version of the Melas Wave Editor. It appears that the “uncomplicated” MOXF gets confused by .X3A files created using the Melas software. It seems popsel2 is finding that loading the .X3A file he created to his MOXF resulted in the Wave Bank pointing to “Preset”, rather than “USER”. Since he wasn’t getting the expected result with the .X3A file, I explained the difference in architecture so that popsel2 might be able to look into a possible fix so that a Melas-generated file had the correct Wave Bank pointer when loaded to the MOXF.

Hopefully, an updated version of the Melas Waveform Editor, and the current firmware in the MOXF.

I’ve converted several custom Motif XF libraries to .X3A files with the Melas Waveform Editor version 1.6.1 which fixed errors in creating MOXF compatible .X3A files.

It is the methodology that does not make sense to me reading through what was done, and then attempting to create a file without nothing in it but a single sample in a single Voice.... That is what is confusing both me and the MOXF. 

Later I’ll post a File done with the Melas Waveform Editor, and I know it works because I’ve used it for presentations.

Seriously, I think its TOO SMALL… .01MB that’s 10kb… I’m not sure that’s a doable size… They did not publish a minimum size - but I’m sure one does exist.

popsel2 - 29 December 2013 09:23 AM

That’s why I ask for a test with a MOTIF XF (thank you 5PinDin) to see if there might be a problem with the created X3A file or a problem with the “import translation” the MOXF is doing on X3A files.
Here I noticed that included samples sometimes get not installed if the source is an X3V file. So I choosed the X3A file, even if there is only one voice used.

What more example files do you have in mind ?

Regards
popael2

You’re welcome.

At this point, I could load any files you create that don’t work correctly with the MOXF, to see what happens.

Just as an experiment, after having loaded the 23kB file as “all”, I resaved it via the XF. Since the Waveform is residing in my XF’s SDRAM, it saved as a .n3.X3A (no FL1/FL2 content). However, it grew to 108kB (still small, but then there’s not much User data). Apparently files generated by the Melas software aren’t precisely equivalent to what the XF itself creates. I’m not suggesting that’s necessarily a bad thing - I’m familiar with how small an “All” file can be and still accomplish what you want. For example, one of only 64 bytes:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/461620/

Bad_Mister - 29 December 2013 09:42 AM

I’ve converted several custom Motif XF libraries to .X3A files with the Melas Waveform Editor version 1.6.1 which fixed errors in creating MOXF compatible .X3A files.

Later I’ll post a File done with the Melas Waveform Editor, and I know it works because I’ve used it for presentations.

Hi,

I get the experience if you convert or combine and then create a new X3A file from a pre made sound libary this is working good. But I HAVE TO USE the Wave Editor to create my drumsets and can not do this on a MOTIF XF.

It is the methodology that does not make sense to me reading through what was done, and then attempting to create a file without nothing in it but a single sample in a single Voice.... That is what is confusing both me and the MOXF. 

I do it this way to keep things simple. I did a test with more samples, too and got the same result. So if there is only one sample placed on one key there is no room for interpretation.
Either there is a sound or not if this key is pressed. Of course at the end it makes no sence to have a drumset with only one sample. That’s why I called it a TEST “drum set”. It’t only for testing and to see if we get the expected results.
If alredy a single drum “drum set” is not working as expected, why that should change if there are more samples included ?
I have had never get an information of a minimum ammount of samples in a drumset.

Seriously, I think its TOO SMALL… .01MB that’s 10kb… I’m not sure that’s a doable size… They did not publish a minimum size - but I’m sure one does exist.

I took a look at the avaliable file structure information of such X3A files. These files start with a header, followed with data strurcure and may include sample data. Melas’s software seems not to save the unused entrys in the X3A file. This is no disadvantage and the result is the small file size. 
Besides it works in most cases. So I get the layout and samples installed. Now that we know it works on a MOTIF XF I believe there is a missing MOXF parameter translation from the X3A file (MOXF firmware).

Here is an information on the X3A file format:
X3A File Format

Hopefully my aim is clear to you.

Regards
popsel2