Hey guys...I have figured out what freezes the MOXF...I know I wasn’t crazy as the people have supposed....

Please check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMi_sWOPqU

So the MOXF will freeze if you have loaded samples to Flash, but if you remove a wave that the MOXF voice is referencing, then it will freeze the MOXF.

This should not happen. A user should be able to delete a WAVE from Flash, without the MOXF freezing.

So just to confirm, I had a perfectly good sample of one of the pianos I’m selling. I then removed the release waves and voila...Freeze.

The reason why Jamal’s Flash was freezing was not that the samples were bad. It was because on the A-piano, I had a missing keygroup and on the Kawai, one of the samples had no data; hence the periodic and random crashes were confusing, but makes sense.

So please MOXF users test this on your end to double verify. Load some waveforms into your MOXF, then remove a wave. Play a voice that references that removed wave for about 10-15 minutes to see if it freezes....

See attached image....

Here is an image of the release samples of the A-piano. One of the keygroups was missing. So my theory is that the MOXF can’t index missing keygroups. It seem to have to have a sample from a wave to reference in a voice or it will freeze.

I loaded all of theCP1 voices. I deleted some of the samples. The voices are simply silent, no freeze here.

jshep0102 - 23 December 2013 07:08 AM

I loaded all of theCP1 voices. I deleted some of the samples. The voices are simply silent, no freeze here.

You have to delete a wave from the Flash. It is also not instantaneous. You would have to play it for some time. It takes about 5 minutes.

It probably would be better to use a voice that uses more than one waveform. For example if the CP1 uses a Sustain and release wave, then delete the releases and play just the sustains.

jshep0102 - 23 December 2013 07:08 AM

I loaded all of theCP1 voices. I deleted some of the samples. The voices are simply silent, no freeze here.

it could be just the release samples that are missing. Meaning, what if the release samples are missing, does that cause the freeze. Bugs are very weird, so that’s why I need others to test to see....

+1 for freezing.

I’m in the process of selecting which voices will make it in my 1GB flash. I deleted 290 MB contiguous space from my previously fully used flash. Then I installed the CP1 to compare it with some other piano voices. When I now played another piano voice (PowerGrand) it took just 20-30 sec for a freeze to occur. The samples of the PowerGrand were located just before the free space I made available by deleting. The PowerGrand voice worked perfectly before I deleted adjacent samples.

This is just an observation, I think problems of this kind are quite difficult to track down. I didn’t try if this can be reproduced, sorry guys, writing to the flash is a slow process… But it seems to be related to deleting samples. If you install your favourite samples one after another until your flash is filled everything works smoothly.

Please check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMi_sWOPqU

I think this video shows very conclusive evidence of my theory. I guess I had the perfect storm of missed keygroup samples on the A-Piano and KawaiEX just for it to freeze.

At least now we have eliminated the theory that my samples were corrupt. It could be, I guess, a corrupt patch, but IMHO, there should not be anything I could do on my end to cause a freeze like that.

After almost two months of frustration, and being made to fee like I’m crazy, I think we are closer to the problem and it doesn’t appear to be my samples being corrupt, because the video clearly shows freezing WITHOUT samples!

PS: I was able to open up the A-Piano All file with the Yamaha Motif XF Editor and re-save it, hoping it would remove whatever bugs were in the actual .ALL file, but it still freezes.

Video Link Demonstrating the Freeze: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beMi_sWOPqU

Just out of curiosity…

If you delete a waveform on the XF’s flash, what does the Wave Bank and Wave Number show for an element that uses that particular waveform? (I’d try this myself, but I’ve spent a lot of time getting my flash organized just right.)

Likewise, what does the Wave Bank and Wave Number show on the MOXF?

Seems like there’s some software on the XF that’s handling ‘missing’ waves and it’s not working the same on the MOXF.

lastfermata - 23 December 2013 10:00 AM

Just out of curiosity…

If you delete a waveform on the XF’s flash, what does the Wave Bank and Wave Number show for an element that uses that particular waveform? (I’d try this myself, but I’ve spent a lot of time getting my flash organized just right.)

Likewise, what does the Wave Bank and Wave Number show on the MOXF?

Seems like there’s some software on the XF that’s handling ‘missing’ waves and it’s not working the same on the MOXF.

It shows 129 and I know I never used 129 or had that many waves. I’m not sure how it got to that number.

It’s interesting that it shows user as the WaveBank instead of FL1. It could be that deleting a waveform results in an incorrect pointer that eventually causes the MOXF to lose its mind. Wouldn’t be the first time that a faulty pointer in software caused such a headache.

I can’t comment on the WaveNumber issue (other than noting that 129 is 128 plus 1, which might be significant).

However, unlike with the XF, the MOXF doesn’t have 128MB of SDRAM. Therefore, WaveBank “user” refers to the flash module with the MOXF, so that seems to be correct.

That’s so typical that flash on the XF (FL1/FL2) is called something different on the MOXF (user)...we software engineers do love to change things! ;-)

lastfermata - 23 December 2013 11:52 AM

That’s so typical that flash on the XF (FL1/FL2) is called something different on the MOXF (user)...we software engineers do love to change things! ;-)

Being consistent is highly overrated.  ;-)

I can just imagine the comment at the line of code that names the flash WaveBank “user” :  /* that should keep ‘em guessing */

:-)

Were these issues ever solved?