philwoodmusic - 10 December 2013 04:09 PM

This is interesting but isn’t it flawed by the fact that we all hear differently, we have different monitors/speakers and the audio interfaces used (and cabling if recorded through analogue outputs) will likely add different colouring to the recordings?.

(given you are comparing recordings made in different places)

I appreciate your concern, but it might be a bit early to find flaws in what I’m going to do, since I haven’t revealed details of it yet.

I think we’ll be able to safely remove sound reproduction gear (amps, speakers, etc.) from the equation, since hopefully anyone who might participate will be playing all the WAVs (there will be more than one) on the same equipment. I also anticipate that folks will be using only their own ears - the need to depend on others is precisely what I’m attempting to minimize. That does leave audio interfaces, which is why I asked anyone kind enough to provide a WAV to also reveal the hardware/software that was used.

As you likely know, the XS and XF can do direct recording of a WAV to USB flash drive or via Ethernet. Using the SMF I posted, I’ve already recorded my two Motifs in that manner, and carefully normalized the results. They’re matched in average level within about 0.1 dB.

I’m hoping that cooperative forum members will post some more MOXF WAVs, so that I don’t have to rely on a sample of one. I anticipate normalizing any submitted MOXF WAVs so that comparisons won’t be biased by level differences.
 

philwoodmusic -

A fairer test would be both boards through the same gear and monitors/speakers in front of everyone interested?

I realise this is the internet, of course!

I’m doing the best I can, given, indeed, the limitations of the Internet. If you’d like to participate, and have a MOXF at hand, I’d appreciate your posting a WAV as pax_eterna did.
 

philwoodmusic -

I’m going to take an uneducated guess that you probably couldn’t get a cigarette paper in between the two boards for sound quality alone, or you could, but all it will be is a cigarette paper.

Also, what is sound quality? to some it means a nice clean output signal, to others it may have much more to do with how the two boards play the sounds/waveforms and similarities in that?

Output level is also something that will be tough to measure here in two separate recording locations with different gear.

I wasn’t expecting to find any substantial difference between the sound of the MOXF versus the XF, and I’ve said so in the past. What I’m trying to do is verify that, to whatever degree is practical. For many of us, unfortunately, “practical” doesn’t include finding a store where we can play multiple Motif models through the same audio system.

I’m not concerned about output level, or playability. Output level differences can be dealt with externally to the keyboard, and playability is much too subjective to enter into this particular discussion.

pax_eterna - 10 December 2013 04:21 PM

Changed - still checking - I didn’t have my reading specs on....

Confirmed it is West Coast note shift is at -12

Just before you ask ;-) I loaded the song to an initialised slot, so the -12 must be in the midi file itself perhaps?

Thanks so much for verifying the Note Shift issue (and that apparently my ears still work :-) ).

I downloaded the SMF file from the site, unzipped and reloaded it to both my XS and XF. The -12 Note Shift on Part 6 (West Coast) is not occurring with either of my Motifs. It’s unlikely, but perhaps what you downloaded somehow got corrupted. Sorry to bother you, but would you please download it again, and try loading it once more to your MOXF? If the Note Shift on Part 6 persists, that’s somewhat strange.

No probs at all - I will do it now. I will even restart the moxf and then re-initialise a song slot too :-)

X'sd Up (2).zip  (File Size: 13393KB - Downloads: 385)

Same recording details as before 5pin - oh and it was at 44.1~16..thought I had better mention that too :)

To 5pinDIN

ok, cool,

I’m not at work for a few days so I can’t get you a WAV right away, but if you don’t get too many, I of course could get one for you.

If interested, I could do another MOXF recording this evening using a MOTU 828mk3 Interface.

Michael

pax_eterna - 10 December 2013 05:53 PM

No probs at all - I will do it now. I will even restart the moxf and then re-initialise a song slot too :-)

Thanks for the redo.

philwoodmusic - 10 December 2013 06:20 PM

To 5pinDIN

ok, cool,

I’m not at work for a few days so I can’t get you a WAV right away, but if you don’t get too many, I of course could get one for you.

Thanks, I’d like to take you up on that, if I don’t get a few more volunteers.

Dromeus - 10 December 2013 10:49 PM

If interested, I could do another MOXF recording this evening using a MOTU 828mk3 Interface.

Michael

Please do, I’m definitely interested.

It’s just the kind of thing you do when you are out of musical ideas to do…

Please make some music - this is the silliest endeavor… let’s look at it this way.

I offer you two stacks of money. In the first stack is $1699 US Dollars, in the second stack is $3599 US Dollars… the challenge: You can have either pile of dollars you prefer… and don’t tell me you only need $1699 and will never use the features and benefits that extra $1900 will afford you…

Pick a pile!

Most rational people will pick the $3599 pile, no?
That is the point. If you can afford the Motif XF8 get one, if you cannot, then I’m here to tell you you will be very happy with the features and benefits we have chosen to include in the cost-down version, the MOXF8. It is already the best selling synth workstation, period, by a very wide margin.

In a blindfold test, the real issue comes forward. Go to your local music store - if they have them through the same sound system, both in stereo, have someone play something while your back is turned - on each keyboard using the same sound or sounds. In a blindfold test you will not be able to tell.

And if you are short the $1900 difference to purchase the Motif XF8, you certainly will not hear a $1900 difference. You will be happy, you will make great sounding music, and I promise, no one will say… “You know, it would have sounded better if you had a Motif XF8”.  Mostly they will not ask you what you recorded it on at all, they will simply ask if you wrote the tune, and perhaps ask your advice on how they could do something as cool as you have.

Or you can spend your time wasting it on an argument/contest, or whatever this is… yikes!!!

Make some music. The only one’s egging this on probably own neither. Whichever one you own, please post your music in the MO SONGS forum and let others here what is possible!!! But have fun… leave the science to the engineers, and the music to the musicians!!! Be a musician…

BM said it perfectly.  Obviously there are differences between XF and MOXF.  The most obvious is the price.  But in terms of sounds, there are differences too.  But you won’t be able to tell just by listening.  People who can afford the XF will be very happy playing.  Similarly, people who buy MOXF will be equally happy making and playing music on MOXF.  Top notch voices at costs well below the flagship.

mm6 - 11 December 2013 08:06 AM

BM said it perfectly.  Obviously there are differences between XF and MOXF.  The most obvious is the price.  But in terms of sounds, there are differences too.  But you won’t be able to tell just by listening.  People who can afford the XF will be very happy playing.  Similarly, people who buy MOXF will be equally happy making and playing music on MOXF.  Top notch voices at costs well below the flagship.

From someone who doesn’t appear to own one yet ;-) http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/470511/

Bad_Mister - 11 December 2013 06:58 AM

It’s just the kind of thing you do when you are out of musical ideas to do…

Please make some music - this is the silliest endeavor… let’s look at it this way.

I offer you two stacks of money. In the first stack is $1699 US Dollars, in the second stack is $3599 US Dollars… the challenge: You can have either pile of dollars you prefer… and don’t tell me you only need $1699 and will never use the features and benefits that extra $1900 will afford you…

Pick a pile!

Most rational people will pick the $3599 pile, no?
That is the point. If you can afford the Motif XF8 get one, if you cannot, then I’m here to tell you you will be very happy with the features and benefits we have chosen to include in the cost-down version, the MOXF8. It is already the best selling synth workstation, period, by a very wide margin.

In a blindfold test, the real issue comes forward. Go to your local music store - if they have them through the same sound system, both in stereo, have someone play something while your back is turned - on each keyboard using the same sound or sounds. In a blindfold test you will not be able to tell.

And if you are short the $1900 difference to purchase the Motif XF8, you certainly will not hear a $1900 difference. You will be happy, you will make great sounding music, and I promise, no one will say… “You know, it would have sounded better if you had a Motif XF8”.  Mostly they will not ask you what you recorded it on at all, they will simply ask if you wrote the tune, and perhaps ask your advice on how they could do something as cool as you have.

Or you can spend your time wasting it on an argument/contest, or whatever this is… yikes!!!

Make some music. The only one’s egging this on probably own neither. Whichever one you own, please post your music in the MO SONGS forum and let others here what is possible!!! But have fun… leave the science to the engineers, and the music to the musicians!!! Be a musician…

BM are you always this negative? Sheesh, it took me all of 3-4 minutes to help out here...if someone wants to undertake a project (whether for purely personal edification or information for a wider audience) who are you to say nay? Either help out or butt out imo.

You are a great source of knowledge for many folks on these forums, that is a given and is very much appreciated however sometimes I do think you overstep the mark...this is one of them. JMO!

Guys,

I have a MOTIF XF and a MOXF.

Feel free to ask me any question you want.

PS

Bad_Mister,

I’m making music on both of them every free moment I get.

:-)

I’m just struggling right now on how to get the songs to my DAW (Sequencing/Analog Out/USB/Firewire/MIDI/etc).

MOXF, MOTU 828mk3 Interface, 44.1kHz 16bit

Xs'd Up.zip  (File Size: 14553KB - Downloads: 394)