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Viewing topic "Do voice common EQ edits not get transferred to performance parts?"

     
Posted on: November 22, 2013 @ 01:04 PM
mitchk000
Total Posts:  19
Joined  09-27-2013
status: Regular

Hello,

I noticed that when creating a part in a performance using a voice with common EQ edit setting’s, the part did not sound the same as the voice itself. I created a simple test.
I started with the rock piano voice User 2 bank program 1. I edited the voice to have a 12db boost in the common EQ section. Noticeable indeed. I then initialized a performance and assigned this voice to part 1. It was flat without the noticeable eq boost.

Do voice common edits not get transferred to performance parts?

Mitch

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Posted on: November 22, 2013 @ 02:03 PM
5pinDIN
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Some Voice Parameters get copied only if Parameter with Voice is ON, some get copied whether P.WithVce is on or not, and others don’t get copied at all. Common EQ doesn’t get copied, but you can duplicate the EQ setting the Voice had in the Performance’s Part.

See P.WithVce on page 64 of the MOXF Reference Manual for details. See page 67 for setting the Part EQ in a Performance.

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Posted on: November 22, 2013 @ 05:17 PM
Bad_Mister
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I noticed that when creating a part in a performance using a voice with common EQ edit setting’s, the part did not sound the same as the voice itself. I created a simple test.
I started with the rock piano voice User 2 bank program 1. I edited the voice to have a 12db boost in the common EQ section. Noticeable indeed. I then initialized a performance and assigned this voice to part 1. It was flat without the noticeable eq boost.

Do voice common edits not get transferred to performance parts?

it may take a minute to get your head around all of the different available EQs. And which EQ is transferred with the Voice and which is simply stripped off. Here’s some help…

ELEMENT EQ
Each normal Voice in Voice mode has eight oscillators (Elements). Each Element could be a complete instrument or some component layer of an instrument. Each Element has its own EQ. this can be configured as a 1-band parametric (for specific tweaking), a 2-band parametric (for general detailing) or as a straight dB boost/cut. This includes each of the 73 Elements in a Drum Kit!

Edits to the Voice Element’s EQ are literally apart of the Voice, so had you added EQ to the Voice at the Element level it would automatically translate when you move the Voice to a PERFORMANCE Part or to a SONG/PATTERN MIXING Part.

Voice COMMON EQ
There is then a Voice COMMON EQ one that gets applied overall to all eight Elements or all seventy-three drum Elements… In Voice mode every Voice has its own 3-band EQ that can be stored with each Voice while it is in VOICE mode. This EQ has a parametric Mid-band and shelving Low and High bands. This EQ is useful when playing a sound “live” in VOICE mode. It will be stripped off when the VOICE is placed in a PART (either in Performance mode or in Song/Pattern mode), however, in a similar scenario to where you were to go to a venue and plug into the venue’s mixer.

Application
To help you understand how this works… The EQ done in Voice mode to the Element components is apart of the Voice itself and will translate wherever you use the Voice. When a Voice is used in combination with others (PERF, SONG/PATTERN) you place the Voice in an entity called a PART.

A “PART” is very much like a set parameters applied to your a Voice, as if you had plugged the Voice output into a mixer. This analogy is directly on point, and helps you understand how there are going to be ‘default’ mixer settings… Much like an empty mixer has all knobs set to some nominal position, initially. When you plug into the mixer you inherit the mixer volume setting (typically all channels default to volume = 100), all channels have a Reverb send = 12, Chorus send = 0, all channel panned to Center, and so on… And just like any mixer the channel’s EQ is defaulting to flat (no EQ) beyond the aforementioned EQ applied within the Voice Element itself.

If you apply EQ to a PART in a PERFORMANCE, you are EQ’ing at the Performance’s mixer. Purpose: This is to make the Part work in the context of its current surroundings. (This is different from your goal with the Voice mode COMMON EQ _ as the Voice is all alone in Voice mode).

If you [STORE] your PART EQ settings in the Performance, they would be reflected in the SONG/PATTERN mixer EQ settings when you COPIED the Performance to the Mixing program.

It is perfectly logical that when you plug into a channel of a mixer that the mixer channel’s EQ is initially set to Flat. The purpose of this EQ is to make the sound work in this context, it is not apart of the Voice itself it’s to blend it into the current situation.

EQ to repair the sound should be done within the Voice (at the ELEMENT level)
EQ to blend the sound into its musical surroundings should be done at the PART (mixer) level.

Alternate Method
That said, you have another opportunity at the Voice level to apply an overall EQ that will translate to all other modes, by “inserting” an Equalizer inline with the Voice signal as one of the Insert effects. The powerful 5-band physical model “VCM EQUALIZER 501"… This EQ can be activated in a Performance or in a Song/Pattern Mixing setup, and is considered apart of the Voice.

Master EQ is an overall EQ to match your sound to the room you are performing in...it affects everything.

Find out more about Equalizers
Although written several years ago the article (linked below) goes in depth into your extensive EQ options in the Yamaha architecture. As a former recording engineer I know that you cannot have enough quality EQs and that is what you have here… And although this article was written back when we introduced VCM effects to synths in 2007 (Motif XS) it still very much applies to the MOXF… It discusses all the various EQs you’ll find.

VCM Equalizer 501…

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Posted on: November 23, 2013 @ 03:15 AM
mitchk000
Total Posts:  19
Joined  09-27-2013
status: Regular

Phil, 5pin

After all these years with my various Motif’s, I learned something new. Probably because I typically EQ at the element level. A little context..

In this particular case, I was having much trouble matching the warmer (how I perceive it..) tube distortion from an ES voice I was trying to replicate to the more sterile/sharp distortion options in the MOXF. With the insert effects off in both boards, the voices between the ES version and the MOXF version are identical in sound. Distortion effects are tricky as they are highly subjective and probably dynamically react to the spectrum of the voices they are applied to. I have found combination of setting’s in the MOXF that get me real close to how the ES voice sounded, but found it not quite as “satisfying” as what I was able to dial in in the ES distortion effect.

It was here that I was trying to use common eq to solve this programming “dilemma”.

That said, thank you for the detailed explanation of the EQ routing. If you have any insight into the new distortion “models” as they relate to the ES implementation, I would welcome the information.

-Mitch

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Posted on: November 23, 2013 @ 03:54 AM
pax_eterna
Total Posts:  209
Joined  11-03-2013
status: Enthusiast

+1 on the detailed explanation BM - thanks

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