Do I understand correctly that the MOXF can read Motif XF files, and the Motif XF can read Motif XS files, but the MOXF cannot read Motif XS files?

As an extension of that, then, the Motif XF libraries available in the Motifator Shop should work fine on the MOXF, but the Motif XS ones would not?

anotherscott - 09 November 2013 04:43 AM

Do I understand correctly that the MOXF can read Motif XF files, and the Motif XF can read Motif XS files, but the MOXF cannot read Motif XS files?

As an extension of that, then, the Motif XF libraries available in the Motifator Shop should work fine on the MOXF, but the Motif XS ones would not?

That’s apparently correct. Page 157 of the MOXF Reference Manual covers data compatibility with previous models, and only lists the MOX and XF (and indicates limitations on XF data).

For some reason, MOX and MOXF were not designed to load XS libraries natively.

If you buy the Melas editors, they can load XS libraries (in the editor), then translate and dump them into the MOX and MOXF.

Easysounds shows all of their XS libraries available in MOXF format already. 

I’m sure Dave Polich is busily porting his DCP libraries to the MOXF format as we speak.

If you have questions about compatibility of specific libraries in the Motifator shop you can always email Keyfax and ask them.

If the Melas software isn’t an option, and someone has XS (or even ES) files that aren’t commercially available libraries, a cooperative XF owner could convert them to XF ones.

meatballfulton - 09 November 2013 05:55 AM

If you buy the Melas editors, they can load XS libraries (in the editor), then translate and dump them into the MOX and MOXF.

Which melas product(s) are you thinking about? Will Waveform Editor do that?

Do I understand correctly that the MOXF can read Motif XF files, and the Motif XF can read Motif XS files, but the MOXF cannot read Motif XS files?

Yes, basically. But not all your details are correct. And when it comes to data transfer between synth models, the devil’s really in the details

If that understanding includes the fact that the MOXF can import specific types of data from the Motif XF files: Voice data, including any User Waveforms and Samples created for the Voices, the Performances, the User Arpeggios, the 32 Mix Templates, and Waveform files.

The MOXF cannot open XS files at all.

If you leave it the way you say it leaves room for misunderstanding.

If you load a Motif XF ALL data file to the MOXF as File TYPE = all
What actually load is the first 384 User Voices, the first 256 Performances, all 256 User Arps, the 32 Mix Templates, the System data, and any Waveforms, including audio sampled to the Integrated Sampling Sequencer. It does not load any Songs, or Patterns, or Master programs. Nor does it load the Song Mixing or Pattern Mixing Setups (unless you have “Put” them to the system Mix Templates).

The ISS Samples are simply installed to Flash. When you import the sequence data, via SMF, you can easily reunite the MIDI trigger note with the waveform.

The MOXF cannot open Motif XS files of any kind… There is no compatibility directly between the XS files and the MOXF.

The MOXF is compatible with all MOX data.

As far as compatible Libraries are concerned, there is enough information about what is read by the MOXF to not speed ahead in the wrong direction. If you enjoy messing with the data, that’s fine but if you are looking for data made specifically for the MOXF, that will come in time. Relax. If you’re New to the synth, there is plenty to explore, before worrying about sample libraries.

When the data is in .X6_ file format then you know it was generated for the MOXf specifically. When converting data from a Motif XF file .X3_ format, there are going to be certain things you may need to do to get the data into your MOXF. Don’t over stress about it.

While the XF has the ability to import data from a .X0_ file format! the MOXF is not able to, it can import from certain .X3_ and .X4_ formats only. This should not be surprising after thinking about it.

Thanks for the detail, B_M.

Yes, “Voice data, including any a User Waveforms and Samples” is what I was interested in.

Good point that it will only see the first 384 User Voices of an All file. An All file from an XF includes 512 User Voices, the first 128 of which are normally the XF specific Voices which are already in the MOXF as PRE9, right? So if you were trying to get a set of Voices from an XF to a MOXF, assuming you did not alter the factory USER1 bank, I guess what you want to do is shuffle things around so that the XF User Banks 2, 3, and 4 becomes banks 1, 2, and 3 so that they end up in the right place on the MOXF, is that correct? (Sounds like another job for the Melas Waveform Editor.)

Would another way to do this be to create a .X3A “all” file on the XF, and use the “1BankVoice” loading option of the MOXF to load XF USER BANK 2 into MOXF USER BANK 1, then XF USER BANK 3 into MOXF USER BANK 2, and finally XF USER BANK 4 into MOXF USER BANK 3? Will this work, and if so, will it also bring over any associated waveform data and place it on the MOXF’s flash card if needed?

Yes.

anotherscott - 09 November 2013 07:02 AM

[...]So if you were trying to get a set of Voices from an XF to a MOXF, assuming you did not alter the factory USER1 bank, I guess what you want to do is shuffle things around so that the XF User Banks 2, 3, and 4 becomes banks 1, 2, and 3 so that they end up in the right place on the MOXF, is that correct? (Sounds like another job for the Melas Waveform Editor.)

Of course, if you didn’t have the Melas software, you could save an XF All file, then use 1BankVoice to load User Bank 2 from that file back to USER 1, etc., then save another All file with the shifted banks. It shouldn’t take very long.

I am trying to load the pattern files (.X0P) from the Motif XF Premium collection onto my MOXF.  As discussed above and on page 157 of the reference manual, the MOXF is not able to load them.

Is there any way to convert .X0P files to something that the MOXF can read?  (e.g. .X3P or .X4P or .X6P)

dbrubeck - 09 November 2013 12:50 PM

I am trying to load the pattern files (.X0P) from the Motif XF Premium collection onto my MOXF.  As discussed above and on page 157 of the reference manual, the MOXF is not able to load them.

Is there any way to convert .X0P files to something that the MOXF can read?  (e.g. .X3P or .X4P or .X6P)

Specifically which .X0P files? If zipped individually, how large is each file?

5pinDIN - 09 November 2013 01:19 PM

dbrubeck - 09 November 2013 12:50 PM

I am trying to load the pattern files (.X0P) from the Motif XF Premium collection onto my MOXF.  As discussed above and on page 157 of the reference manual, the MOXF is not able to load them.

Is there any way to convert .X0P files to something that the MOXF can read?  (e.g. .X3P or .X4P or .X6P)

Specifically which .X0P files? If zipped individually, how large is each file?

5pinDIN,
The files are:
KF_DRUMS 1.X0P at 532KB
KF_DRUMS 2.X0P at 129KB
KF_PERC.X0P at 468 KB
DUBSTEP SAMPLE.X0P at 55KB

On the MOXF in file mode, I can navigate to the folder but none of them appear in the list of files.  I assume this is because the MOXF can’t load X0P files.  This is why I’d like to find a way to convert them into X3P, X4P, or X6P which the MOXF can read.

As Bad Mister wrote above, the MOXF cannot load Songs or Patterns from the XF.  The sequencers are not file compatible.

BTW, X0P is an XS pattern file. An XF pattern file would be X3P.

dbrubeck - 09 November 2013 03:00 PM

5pinDIN,
The files are:
KF_DRUMS 1.X0P at 532KB
KF_DRUMS 2.X0P at 129KB
KF_PERC.X0P at 468 KB
DUBSTEP SAMPLE.X0P at 55KB

On the MOXF in file mode, I can navigate to the folder but none of them appear in the list of files.  I assume this is because the MOXF can’t load X0P files.  This is why I’d like to find a way to convert them into X3P, X4P, or X6P which the MOXF can read.

As indicated on page 157 of the MOXF Reference Manual, from .X3P files only Waveform data is compatible (not the patterns themselves). The reason I asked which files and their size is that I wanted to see if I had them, and if I did what they might contain. I do have the KF files, and there are apparently no Waveforms, so converting the .X0P files to .X3P for you wouldn’t be useful.

I’m not currently aware of any means of converting XS Pattern files so that they are compatible with the MOXF. I suppose individual Patterns could be saved as SMFs.

5pinDIN - 09 November 2013 04:33 PM

I suppose individual Patterns could be saved as SMFs.

Correct, with access to the right instrument (an XS or XF), the files and a flash drive it only takes a few minutes to convert into SMFs and then load those into a MOXF.

Except saving as an SMF strips out all the instrument specific information, like what voices to use, mix information (levels, effects, etc.) so you have to reconstruct all that.

Then if any sample waveforms are involved you have to deal with that separately.

Conclusion: not a practical workaround.

Except saving as an SMF strips out all the instrument specific information, like what voices to use, mix information (levels, effects, etc.) so you have to reconstruct all that.

Then if any sample waveforms are involved you have to deal with that separately.

Conclusion: not a practical workaround.

It does nothing of the kind. It does not strip out this data. That would be incorrect to say, if you have placed the mix data in the track it will transfer with the MIDI file. Not sure if you are just misunderstanding how this works are just want an opportunity to criticize.
(moving data between products is not always easy, particularly when specs are different, and most particularly when going from bigger to smaller… It will not all fit) rather than being critical, it would help if accurate info is provided. It’s a case of the pig reciting Shakespeare, and criticizing his accent!
:-)

It does not include any tone generator specific parameters by default. But it does not strip anything out.

Either way what is true is the SMF transfers any MIDI events that are documented in the tracks. If you place the functions of the mix in your tracks they are transferred.

MIDI data between any two sequencers is transferred by the Standard MIDI File… There is no need to reinvent the wheel here.

Transferring a MIXING setup between the Motif XF and the MOXF is handled in one of the following ways:
1) “PUT” the Motif XF Mixing setup into one of the 32 System TEMPLATES. These get saved with the XF All data file as apart of the “system” settings. When you then load that ALL data file to the the MOXF you can retrieve (or “Get") that Mixing setup.
2) manually place the PC and CC events into the track messages prior to exporting as a SMF. Again, the fact that the Motif series has more User Banks than the MOXF means not all programs will recall properly.

You mileage will vary… That will be true with or without a utility to translate the file data.

If you understand anything about the architectures you know that if you used a USER 4 Voice in your Motif XF Mixing setup, transferring the MIX is not going to be foolproof.

However, moving the WAVEFORMS recorded to the Motif XF’s Integrated Sampling Sequencer to the MOXF was a breeze. Moving the MIDI data that triggered them was also as easy as saving the .MID file.

Reuniting the waveform with the MIDI data that triggered it was as easy as loading the .mid file, and creating the mixing voice with the Waveform, in that PART number.

In fact, given they are two very different synthesizers, I find it very practical… In actual use.

There is no direct compatibility between the Motif ES and the MOXF, there is no direct compatibility between the Motif XS and the MOXF.