I have an xf8 that I love.  I use it live, never use arps or sequencing.  For me, the XF is really a live keyboard with amazing sounds.  I have a ton of sounds and performances on my XF that I’ve worked hard to build. 

Wondering if the MOXF8 would be a better choice (feature set and overall weight) for my use but have the following questions:
1.  Can the MOXF8 use sounds and performances already programmed on my XF or would I have to start over?  How much effort is involved in a switch from XF8 to MOXF8 from a setup and or programming standpoint?
2.  Can I use XF sound libraries (like vintage keys) on the MOXF8?
3.  For live use, are there ant positive or negative trade offs between these two instruments I’m not thinking of?

What am I not thinking of as I consider this???

Thanks!!

I loaded already the factory voices and performances from the XF to the MOXF and it was working good.., however with this exception that the MOXF has less place for the performances and voices…

This is a “Do these shoes fit my fit?” question. One that only you can answer. Will you miss your hometown when you move away? Is blue your favorite color? See we have no way of knowing your relationship with your Motif XF8 particularly when it comes to what YOU will miss.

If you are asking does the Motif XF really contain more features than the MOXF, well, yes it does. Are they going to be more or less important to you? Well, let me ask you, do the shoes I’m trying on right now fit my feet?

See, you can’t answer that without knowing what I’m feeling. You cannot tell if they will pinch my toes. We cannot know if you’ll miss a particular feature or function, or a simple workflow you have developed.

1) VOICES and PERFORMANCES are compatible. The Motif XF has 512 User Voices and 512 Performance, the MOXF has 384 User Voices and 256 Performance locations.
2) Yes Libraries for the Motif XF can be loaded directly to the MOXF (Voices, Performances, Waveforms, Arpeggios)
3) Yes, of course, there are positives and negatives - they are in the eyes, and hands of the beholder

zippydog - 06 November 2013 08:13 PM

[...]
1.  Can the MOXF8 use sounds and performances already programmed on my XF or would I have to start over?  How much effort is involved in a switch from XF8 to MOXF8 from a setup and or programming standpoint?

The MOXF is compatible with XF data. You can load what you’ve already programmed, but with some limitations:

The MOXF has one less User Voice bank than the XF (three vs. four). The MOXF has an additional Preset Voice bank (nine vs. eight), which holds the “unique” Voices that are loaded to USER 1 on the XF when it’s new or after a factory reset. For you, the ninth Preset bank might or might not offset the loss of the User bank.

The MOXF has half the Performance locations - two banks (256 locations) versus four banks (512 locations) in the XF.

The MOXF has only one slot for a flash module, while the XF has two. Therefore the maximum possible capacity is reduced from 2GB to 1GB.
 

zippydog -

2.  Can I use XF sound libraries (like vintage keys) on the MOXF8?

As to data, yes. However, you might have to change how you load it, depending on if the library normally loads to Bank 4 on an XF, which is nonexistent on the MOXF.
 

zippydog -

3.  For live use, are there ant positive or negative trade offs between these two instruments I’m not thinking of?

What am I not thinking of as I consider this???

I’m sure you’ve already considered the weight difference.

Do you need aftertouch? The MOXF doesn’t have it.

The MOXF has 100 additional Arps beyond those in the XF.

Those are some of the differences, there are others. For example, the MOXF can do audio and MIDI via USB, while the XF is limited to MIDI. Also, there is no sampling on the MOXF, so no SDRAM - all samples have to get installed to flash memory.

Point of order on the Audio capability: Many people miss this or simple misunderstand this, but the Motif XF’s can record audio to USB to an external drive (no computer necessary) or direct to computer via Ethernet (direct mixdown to stereo) plus it has 8 stereo bus outputs via FW for traditional Multi-tracking. The Motif XF can also output stereo audio via a wireless USB device connected to the TO DEVICE port. The MOXF has the ability (USB) to record to computer via a single stereo bus output or dual stereo bus output. It does not record via USB direct to a drive (the MOXF requires a computer to record audio) nor does it have Wireless or Ethernet audio capability..

Bad_Mister - 07 November 2013 05:32 AM

Point of order on the Audio capability: [...]

Thanks for the additional information on audio capability. To further clarify, I was referring to the following (excerpted from the MOXF Owner’s Manual):
USB Audio/MIDI interface
The USB terminal of the instrument serves as both a MIDI and audio interface—letting you record digitally the instrument sound and the audio signal from the A/D INPUT [L]/[R] jacks to DAW software on a computer. You can also output both the instrument sound and the DAW software input signal from the MOX6/MOX8.

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I had been looking into this issue myself.  I own an xf8 but am now two floors up, without an elavator. It is currently my only gigging instrument…

The XF8 is an awesome machine, but with many features that I don’t use.  I mainly got it because I needed an instrument that I could import new sounds and samples to (don’t need the sampling ability itself).

Therefore, in many ways, it might seem that I could downgrade to the Moxf8.  I could still use my B3 patches (yes, I’m aware I won’t have access to sliders) and I’m assuming it still has a master mode, which I rely on quite a bit.

As a pianist though, I’m worried about the playability of the keybed itself, and how much I would miss the XF8.  I’ve even toyed with the idea of purchasing an xf6 for the smaller gigs (think Celeste in symphony orchestras alongside a real grand) and getting hold of another 88 key for the gigs where I need the real estate.

My aching back has me considering many new options where lighter synths are concerned.

Interested to know anyone’s opinions....

Thanks!

jonnybignote - 11 November 2013 11:14 PM

I’m assuming it still has a master mode, which I rely on quite a bit.

It has master mode, but it may be important to note that that MOXF Master modes supports 4 zones, where the XF supports 8.

As for your main question, no one here is going to be able to tell you whether you’ll find the MOXF8 keyboard to be a suitable substitute for the action on the XF8. There’s no doubt that it’s different. Some people will think it’s fine, some won’t, and there’s no way to know which camp you’ll be in, you’ll have to try it yourself. If you can’t find a MOXF8 nearby to try, you can try a P35, P105, DGX650, or MOX8, all of which will feel similar.

If you must save your back but just can’t enjoy the GHS action, then finding the lightest 88 that you like the feel of, and pairing it with a Motif XF6 or a MOXF6 might be the most viable option. The combination of a Yamaha CP33 or CP50 (two different non-GHS actions) with a MOXF6 would still have lower total weight than the XF8, plus of course it’s easier to move a lot of weight in two pieces than in one, so even pairing with the XF6 instead of the MOXF6 would be beneficial to your back, even if total weight gets higher. You could also look at lighter weight non-Yamaha piano actions, like the Casio PX350/PX5S and Roland RD64/FP50. I personally like those Casio actions, and the PX5S has a lot of nice MIDI controller functionality.

Thanks for all that info - very valuable....

I like the idea of the CP50 paired with an xf6 as the cp50 is a good sound source in its own right, and would handle the duty when I just needed to go somewhere and play piano.  There are some gigs where I’m just needing light piano/rhodes duties or orchestral support, so the xf6 I could take on it’s own also.  My back is liking the sound of this.  I’m less sure of the cp50’s midi controller capabilities - I’m worried that if when I do need to pair with the xf6 that I would lose access to a lot of what makes the xf’s so great. 

If I understand basic midi implementation correctly, any xf sounds played through another controller, turn the xf into a slave only.  In other words, I can’t still use all the performance controls of the xf on sounds that are being played by the CP50.

I am also impressed by the Casio PX5S in that it seems to have a number of serviceable sounds and an expressive keybed while being under 30lbs!  It also has a much more thorough midi control setup.  The stinker with that one is that they decided to not include an expression pedal input - crazy.  This worries me most of all as I tend to need to fade in/out sounds quite a lot, or adjust volumes on the fly when both hands are tied up.  There is an inline midi expression unit here

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSLPEDCONTROL

that I would have to get, if I can use it to adjust overall volume. $130 is a bit rough though....

Am I missing anything else?

Thanks again

jonnybignote - 16 November 2013 01:55 PM

[...]I’m less sure of the cp50’s midi controller capabilities - I’m worried that if when I do need to pair with the xf6 that I would lose access to a lot of what makes the xf’s so great. 

If I understand basic midi implementation correctly, any xf sounds played through another controller, turn the xf into a slave only.  In other words, I can’t still use all the performance controls of the xf on sounds that are being played by the CP50.[...]

I assume that you’d control the XF6 with the CP50 mainly so you’d have 88 keys along with a feel you prefer. Using the CP50 as a controller where it generates MIDI events such as note-on, pitch bend, etc., doesn’t prevent you from (for example) operating a pedal that’s plugged into the XF6, or selecting an Arp from the XF’s front panel, etc.

Is there a specific XF “performance control” that you’re concerned about not being able to use?

I see I typed “CP33 or CP50” above, when I meant to say “CP33 or CP4” which have two different actions.

jonnybignote - 16 November 2013 01:55 PM

If I understand basic midi implementation correctly, any xf sounds played through another controller, turn the xf into a slave only.  In other words, I can’t still use all the performance controls of the xf on sounds that are being played by the CP50.

It’s not true that it turns it into a slave only. MIDI works in both directions, and the “master/slave” relationship just depends on how you want it to work. For example, if you want the weighted controller to play a specific XF sound, it is possible to set that up on either of the two boards. That is, you could create an XF preset that sets up the desired XF sounds for external control, or you could create a preset in your other board that calls up the sounds you want in the XF. It’s not a fixed master-slave relationship. So for example, there are ways to set up an XF sound so that you are playing it from your 88 controller, but you can still use the performance controls on the XF.

jonnybignote - 16 November 2013 01:55 PM

I am also impressed by the Casio PX5S in that it seems to have a number of serviceable sounds and an expressive keybed while being under 30lbs!  It also has a much more thorough midi control setup.  The stinker with that one is that they decided to not include an expression pedal input - crazy.  This worries me most of all as I tend to need to fade in/out sounds quite a lot, or adjust volumes on the fly when both hands are tied up.  There is an inline midi expression unit here

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MSLPEDCONTROL

that I would have to get, if I can use it to adjust overall volume. $130 is a bit rough though....

Am I missing anything else?

Even with the extra $130, the PX5S is pretty well priced for what it does. I mean, if instead of $999, it were $1129 and included an expression pedal, I don’t think people would have turned their nose up at it. Though as I mentioned, you can set things up so that the XF controls still work. So it would be possible to play XF sounds from a PX5S and still use the expression pedal that is plugged into the XF.

Another board you could look at could be the Korg Kross 88. It’s the same price as the PX5S and also has very good MIDI controller functionality. It doesn’t have the assignable knobs and sliders of the PX5S, but it does have an expression pedal input. It’s almost as light as the PX5S, but bigger/bulkier.

I agree the PX5S is a good price, and I don’t expect an expression pedal.  Lack of an input for one though is, I believe an oversight.

I’ve been running a controller on top of the XF8 that played string pads from the XF8 (on a different midi channel to the sounds played on the XF in mixing mode), but the xf expression pedal had no effect on the volume, so I assumed it wasn’t possible.  I obviously need to look more in to the details of the patches again.  Perhaps I have the expression pedal setup to control only the local or selected midi channel.  I never looked to see if it can be set for global master volume.  Would still probably make sense to add the MIDI Solutions Pedal Controller MIDI Generator anyway, to get better control of PX5S’s own sounds.

Right, when I talked about including the expression pedal, I meant the input.

Yes, the ability to use the Yamaha’s expression pedal to control a sound being triggered from another board depends on MIDI channel assignments. (Like most things on the Motif, there’s probably more than one way to do it.) I don’t believe it can be set for global master volume, though. Though if that’s all you want, you can put a plain old volume pedal on the output of the Yamaha.

I purchased a JamminPro StudioMix 702 7-ch line mixer to use specifically with my AW4416. The 702 records directly to USB and is very simple and easy to use. Now, I use it with my MOXF8 when a PC or Mac is not nearby.

HHNET

You might want to try out a GHS keyboard first to know what GHS is about.  Some people coming from BH keys might find GHS a little sluggish in key return.  Meaning less satisfying action.  But its always very subjective.  Try it out yourself to know it best.

An update to my situation.  I couldn’t be without the sound engine of the XF, so I got the XF6..under 40lbs and all my sounds transferred perfectly.  I found I really still needed all the hardware controls and access to 2GB of ram.  I got a great artist deal with Casio for the PX5S.  It is a great instrument also, and a very worthy board with a nice action and great piano/keys/synth sounds.  It will be fine for the gigs where I need to turn up and play piano, and a few rhodes/clav patches etc.  Drawbar and brass/strings are weak in comparison, but it’s a great instrument for not much money and around 29lbs in weight I think.

For my main gigs I’m bringing both boards and am limping along, using the PX5S as a controller only.  I haven’t really had time to figure out anything more complicated than that.  The Casio has a very functional midi setup, but I just use it to play on so far - I still run everything from the XF6, including patch changes and part selection etc.  I’m able to access the Motif locally and as a multitimbral device in song mode, running various sounds across the two boards in various key ranges. I’m still utilizing Master Mode as my quick librarian approach to accessing sounds I need for specific numbers but I do have to drop into song mode-proper sometimes to get the multitimbral side to work.

Definitely a work in progress, but I’m altogether better off, from a lifting perspective, as well as just having a more versatile rig.