mySoftware [Updates]

Once you create a user profile on Motifator and update with the appropriate information, the updates shown here will be specific to you.

rssFeeds [Syndicate]


forumforum
 

Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.

Viewing topic "S90ES and CP4 keyboard differences"

     
Posted on: October 25, 2013 @ 10:24 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

What is the most pianistic keyboard between the two?

the Balanced Hammer Effect is even across all keys - there is no grading of the weights. As to how it plays: The BHE is more akin to the action of an upright piano. While the NW (natural wooden key) GH3 action found on the CP4 is not only graded like a piano and how it plays is more akin to an acoustic grand piano. Notably It features three trigger sensors.

On an acoustic action you can retrigger the key without the key having to completely return, the 3 sensors on the NW-GH3 make this the far superior action. Upright and Grand actions are different because of how gravity works in favor of the Grand, and against you in an Upright action. And while neither if these are actual piano actions (which I’m sure you know Yamaha makes), the NW-GH3 action is as close as can be to a grand piano action for use in a Stage Piano. It is the cutting edge of this technology… Play it, you’ll see!

For those who really play and want a piano action it (the NW-GH3) is the preferred action.

BHE is found on many Yamaha top-of-the-line synths because it provides a great piano weighed response yet can work well in its role in a synthesizer (where more than just piano sounds are required) it also features Aftertouch (an important function for synth control) and yet gives a smooth piano weighted experience in terms of its responsiveness. Designed to be used on more sounds in addition to just piano. It is an action designed for and found mostly on Synthesizers. The demands from those who really play Synths are slightly different from those who play principally piano. And at Yamaha “actions” be they non-weighted, synth weighted, organ, graded, non-graded, upright, grand, etc., etc., are the result of exhaustive research.

The first “S” in S90 ES stands for synthesizer.
The “CP” in CP4 stands for Contemporary Piano.

The S90 ES is a synthesizer. The CP4 is a piano. This should be clear. And you can bet the tone engine is matched to the keyboard action, this is not just random or by chance (as it would be with a virtual piano/computer/external controller).

The NW-GH3 action as found on the CP4 is designed for a no-compromise “stage” piano. The wooden keys, the synthetic textured Ivorite key tops, the three trigger sensors used and the meticulous grading of the weighting across the keyboard, make it the most “acoustic grand piano” like action we make for electronic pianos… Short of the big Yamaha Silent Grands et al, which feature actual real (full regulatable) piano actions.

Can CP4 keyboard be used to practice piano exercises the hard way… ?

Yes. Without question.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 26, 2013 @ 01:54 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

Thanks Bad_Mister

Your replies are always a first class exhaustive treatise. 8-)

I own a S90ES and a XF7 but I was looking for a decent digital piano to restart my piano lessons.
S90ES is too precious to use it as a practice piano, so I need another instrument.

I’m aware that CP4 is on the way (in Italy it will be perhaps avaliable on November or December) and I might take advantage of the CP5 price drop… :-)
Anyway, after several digital piano tests including P155, CP50 and other brands, I found a good compromise with the Kawai ES7 for which I already payed a deposit.

Kawai ES7 has a very good price/quality ratio, expecially the keyboard action that’s outstanding, but I’d prefer CP4/5 timbre, although there are two conflicting aspects:
- price, CP4 is way more expensive than ES7
- keyboard action, that’s not as good as ES7’s

Away from the fact you’re the Man from Yamaha, what would you do if you were in my place?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 26, 2013 @ 02:11 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

I’d play the instrument, then decide.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 26, 2013 @ 03:07 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast
Bad_Mister - 26 October 2013 02:11 AM

I’d play the instrument, then decide.

In fact, CP4 trial is obviously lacking in my experiences.... :-(

Maybe I’d rather wait for the CP4, then decide…

Thanks
dp7

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 26, 2013 @ 10:18 PM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

Just to close the circle, are CP5 and CP4 keyboard the same?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 12:51 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

No, the CP5 was the NW Stage action, the CP4 is a NW-GH3 action with triple sensors…

Both are wooden white keys, with synthetic ivory keytops, but the CP4 feature the GH3 action.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 08:58 PM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast
Bad_Mister - 27 October 2013 12:51 AM

No, the CP5 was the NW Stage action, the CP4 is a NW-GH3 action with triple sensors…

Both are wooden white keys, with synthetic ivory keytops, but the CP4 feature the GH3 action.

This means, again, CP4 is better than CP5.
Perhaps I need to learn again how to understand spec sheets.

CP4 specs

CP5 specs

If you read both, at “keyboard” (description) there’re no differences…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 27, 2013 @ 10:11 PM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Because you should play them, the only important differences become clear. Go PLAY the instrument. Buying a musical instrument based on specifications, is like buying a musical instrument without playing it. It is its own example of what not to do! Please go play them.

When it comes to things like this specs don’t do justice to Sound, to Feel, to Inspiration, these things you can assess only by actually playing the instrument.

Yep! Please read closely, I see differences, don’t you?
CP5 KEYBOARD: 88 keys, NW-STAGE keyboard (Wooden synthetic ivory weighted keyboard)

CP4 KEYBOARD: 88-key Natural Wood Graded Hammer (NW-GH) keyboard with Synthetic Ivory Keytops (with real-wood white keys)

Image Attachments
CP5 spec.png
CP4 Stage.png
  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 28, 2013 @ 02:05 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

Thanks Bad_Mister

Now everything’s clear… Hoping Yamaha Italy sooner or later gets a move on making CP4 avaliable…

regards
dp7

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2013 @ 03:15 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

Just to close this thread… :-)

I bought CP4 this morning after a long and exhausting comparison with the Kawai ES7…
But, to be honest, with CP4 was love at first sight and touch.
Both keyboard and piano sounds are mouthwatering.

All’s well that ends well, and Yamaha strikes again.

Thanks Bad_Mister :-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2013 @ 12:19 PM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Enjoy!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 28, 2013 @ 07:56 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast
Bad_Mister - 26 November 2013 12:19 PM

Enjoy!

I prefer continuing this thread because there’s no a specific section for Yamaha stage pianos within Motifator.

What if I wanted to use a Soft Pedal (Control No. 67) with the CP4?

According to CP4 reference manual soft Pedal messages can be used to modify the sound of notes in the same way as a piano’s Soft pedal. Setting a value between 64 and 127 turns soft on, reducing the volume and slightly softening the timbre; meanwhile, values between 0 and 63 turn it off.

So, what is the recommended pedal to achieve my goal?

Will be more suitable an assignable foot switch or a foot controller?

As far as I can see, perhaps an assignable foot switch should do the job, but I’m waiting for your final word :-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 05, 2013 @ 01:33 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

So, what is the recommended pedal to achieve my goal?

Yamaha FC4 (momentary pedal with TS jack)

Will be more suitable an assignable foot switch or a foot controller?

Assignable Foot Switch… a momentary pedal is a switch. ON when you engage it with your foot, OFF when you let go.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: December 05, 2013 @ 01:57 AM
digitalperformer7
Avatar
Total Posts:  251
Joined  12-07-2011
status: Enthusiast

Thanks! :-)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: October 11, 2017 @ 01:31 PM
pdiddy
Total Posts:  34
Joined  11-07-2003
status: Regular

Drats - old thread. For a minute thought Bad Mister was back!

  [ Ignore ]