Hello,

I am the proud owner of the new MOXF8 with flash board and wish to efficiently get my user voices, waveforms and performances from the ES8 into the MOXF8 so I can start gigging with it as soon as I get it. I will probably make edits eventually to take advantage of new voices in XF/MOXF8 to improve voices, but that will be over next few months.
There may be more than one way to do it, but I was looking for advice on any or all approaches.

Thanks,

Mitch

You can load Voices from the ES but not Performances.

No, sorry, the ES data cannot be loaded in the MOXF. At some point we will post conversions of the PRESETs of older products, but they are not directly compatible. the ES was a full 10 years ago. Too much has changed....

Please read carefully:

Loading Files:
The MOXF can load everything about the MOX6/MOX8 files. No restrictions.

Current Situation: The MOXF cannot load any data from a Motif XS, Motif ES, Motif (classic) period, no exceptions. It does not even see the file extensions.

There is compatibility between the MOXF and the Motif XF. Translating the chart on the page 157 of the REFERENCE MANUAL, you can see and load a Motif XF ALL data file (.X3A) but the only things that load are the following:

User Voices, Performances, Arpeggios, the 32 Mix Templates (if you load “with system”), and any Waveforms (including those recorded to the Integrated Sampling Sequencer), but please note that the PATTERN data and SONG data is not, repeat NOT, imported via this import process… Neither is the MIXING setup, only the Waveform recorded to the sequencer. Sequence data must be loaded into the MOXF by saving it as SMF (Standard MIDI File). The MIXING setup can be transferred if you “PUT” the MIXING in one of the 32 MIX TEMPLATES of the Motif XF, then it can be imported as ‘system’ data into the MOXF’s 32 Mix Templates.

The other Motif XF File formats listed, again only the specific data is imported. From an ALL SONG or ALL PATTERN file, the only items that gets imported is any audio recorded to the Integrated Sampling Sequencer. The WAVEFORM will simply be added to the list of data installed on the FLASH Board. You can reunite it with its controlling MIDI data by separately exporting/importing the Sequence data in a SMF, while importing the Waveform and creating a MIXING VOICE within the SONG or PATTERN in which you wish to use the audio.

Once you get your head around this - it is not complicated at all.

Phil and others,

I appreciate that the time difference and resultant architectural differences make it impractical to provide compatibility between data from the ES to the XF/MOXF, but never the less, the ES has been a workhorse for me and I have 10 years of accumulated programming in it.

What I am looking for is some strategies and suggestions that help accelerate the effort to move my user voices and performances from the ES to my new MOXF as I want to get it into the show as soon as possible.

My user voices are mostly heavy edits of factory ES voices (ie no user waveforms)and the performances are detailed splits and assignments using a combination of user and factory voices.

I know it will be work, but I’m trying to avoid “From the ground up” re-programming if I can.

Obviously I am very excited about the new MOXF8, so I realize this conversion effort is the cost of admission....

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may come up with.

-Mitch

mitchk000 - 17 October 2013 04:33 AM

[...]What I am looking for is some strategies and suggestions that help accelerate the effort to move my user voices and performances from the ES to my new MOXF as I want to get it into the show as soon as possible.[...]

As Bad_Mister‘s post attachment shows, according to its Reference Manual the MOXF is compatible with “Voice, Performance, Arpeggio, Mix Template, and Waveform Data” of the XF. Since the XF is compatible with ES data (to the extent indicated in this support article - see the ES_MO_2XS.zip linked there), it would seem that cooperation from an XF owner might be the key to resolving your situation.

Since the XF is compatible with ES data (to the extent indicated in this support article - see the ES_MO_2XS.zip linked there), it would seem that cooperation from an XF owner might be the key to resolving your situation

The support article referenced above is about ES to XS conversion. Does that mean I Have to find an XS volunteer and a XF volunteer to get a potential ES8 user voice file into the MOXF8? (ES-->XS-->XF-->MOXF8)

mitchk000 - 18 October 2013 04:15 AM

The support article referenced above is about ES to XS conversion. Does that mean I Have to find an XS volunteer and a XF volunteer to get a potential ES8 user voice file into the MOXF8? (ES-->XS-->XF-->MOXF8)

An XS owner shouldn’t be required - the XF is compatible with XS data, etc. The article was originally written before the existence of the XF, but is now titled “Convert Motif ES and MO6/MO8 Data to the Motif XS and Motif XF”. The X0V files in the zip will load without problem to an XF.

The architecture changes between the ES and XS were significant. Extremely significant in what concerns your request because not only did the Voice structure change from four Elements to eight Elements but an entirely different access to those elements was developed “XA Control”. The entire theory of the arpeggiator changed. All new envelopes (filters and amplifier) as well as the entire rework of the Effect processors (significant upgrade here).

It always makes me laugh a bit when the ‘nay sayers’ (they know who they are) say there are no significant changes or differences in the products. The devil is always in the details. By saying such things these people only reveal their own lack of knowledge about the details. I take it as a responsibility of my position to be able to help with those details, because I’m a musician, just like most of you, and the ES was my workhorse go to board… Well, right up until the XS, and the XS was until the XF. So I live through this also.

And the engineers at Yamaha synths, who are also musicians, understand the desire to move work from one synth to the next generation… And when possible they take the time and extra effort to make the “look up tables” so conversion of data can be done as well as possible.

But jumping two generations is not going to be something that it would be even wise to spend time on…

Now all that said, if you read the referenced article, the disclaimer is that although the ES Voices were made available in a format that would get you close, that does not mean the voice will sound the same. The waveform, if available, will be used, if not available the “look up table” built-in by engineers substitutes a replacement that has been deemed as suitable. But things like Arpeggios, Effects and filter settings can be radically different… To the point where the Voice can be virtually unrecognizable when imported to the newer product.

Things like PERFORMANCEs are problematical because they only “point to” Voice locations… So if your Performance used Preset 2: 002 in the ES, there is no guarantee that the same Voice occupies that location in the newer product.

My first advice would be - if you are moving to a new keyboard… You are moving to a new keyboard. Face it. If you still want your ES in your new keyboard consider keeping the ES.

The Motif XS, the Motif XF and the MOXF are different keyboards, they are not and do not include everything from the previous models, and especially from the ES.

The Motif (classic) and Motif ES were of the four Element engines…
The XS, XF and MOXF are the next generation eight Element engines with VCM (physical modeling) Effects.

That said, if you want to convert data because, (and I know where you’re coming from) some of the Setups are very important… My second bit of advice would be… Keep the ES while you rebuild your Setups.

You will want to take advantage of all of the new features and functions that have developed in the last decade. It would be a travesty not to. Could you make the MOXF sound like the ES… My informed opinion is YES you could, but the fact that you can make the sound actually far better cannot be ignored… And should not be ignored.

What if your desire was possible - and you could load the ES data into the MOXF and it sounded exactly the same… It begs the question ... Why are you getting the MOXF? ( has to be: convenience, perhaps weight) I get this, too. But from a sound standpoint, you have an opportunity to rebuild your data and seriously improve on your sound. And that fundamentally why we release a new product… Improve the sound!

It will be a lot of work, but you did not do it all at once in the ES… You will not be able to do it all at once in a MOXF… It’s a new keyboard… One thing is that it is one that you know how to work!!! 100% of the knowledge you gained from programming the ES will be useful in working and programming the new one… That’s the good news.

The better news is you will find you have expanded options… And lots of them… to improve on your setup and your sound.

Welcome to the future. :-)

Last thought consider this… At Yamaha we pay attention (as best we can) to what sounds become essential to professional players. You may find that most of your favorites have made the cut and survive in the current product… (Albeit, updated to take advantage of new features! And the nice thing: with a FLASH BOARD many (in fact all of the pianos) Voices have survived in Sample Libraries you can download.

In my Flash expanded MOXF I have not only the current “Full Concert Grand” and “Natural S6” but also the “Power Grand” and “Jazz Grand” from the Motif (classic)/ES, and the “S700” from the S90 ES plus the brand new four velocity data that was used in the CP1 Stage piano. So I have my own ‘million dollar’ set of acoustic grands!!!
:-)

Phil,

I Agree with all your points. I appreciate the comments and wanted to leave you with some feedback about my motivation to purchase the MOXF8 for what its worth.

Firstly, the MOXF8 will be used to replace the ES8 as the only keyboard in my 10 year working cover band. The ES has to cover a lot of ground with as many as 4 parts across the keyboard for some songs.

I purchased the MOXF8 knowing fully about the internal architecture changes over the years relative to the ES. I even owned a XS6 for home use (not stage) for a while to play with the 8 element architecture (and all the other improvements) when it came out.

I felt it was time to update my ES8 stage set-up mostly driven from a desire to get the weight down believe it or not. I am taking it on faith that once I convert my voices and programs (no songs or arps) my sounds will range from quite similar to vastly improved assuming I do the programming effectively. I did not believe this goal would be possible with say a KROME or other similar 33lb 88 key board. ( I even tried the KROME and returned it)

My secondary motivation is to be able to create sounds that I couldn’t before using all the very things new to the MOXF8 you detailed in your post.

I look forward to many more years of enjoyment from this board from a playing perspective and a lifting perspective.!

Thanks again,

Mitch