This forum is awesome.  So many times I go to post a question and the answer comes to me as I’m writing the question.  In pattern mode I’ve got 4 tracks that are on the same Midi Channel.  As you know if you move the volume slider it connects all 4 track volumes together as the same.  If I go to Pattern Mixer then highlight the volume and use the Dial.  I can change them all independently then save it as a scene.  Is there another way or am I on the right track?

I keep getting deeper and deeper into this thing.  Each scene can have different arp settings.  So it’s like pattern mode on steroids.  Love this keyboard.

mikebengel - 01 September 2013 05:39 PM

This forum is awesome.  So many times I go to post a question and the answer comes to me as I’m writing the question.  In pattern mode I’ve got 4 tracks that are on the same Midi Channel.  As you know if you move the volume slider it connects all 4 track volumes together as the same.  If I go to Pattern Mixer then highlight the volume and use the Dial.  I can change them all independently then save it as a scene.  Is there another way or am I on the right track?

I keep getting deeper and deeper into this thing.  Each scene can have different arp settings.  So it’s like pattern mode on steroids.  Love this keyboard.

If you would like to have the faders available for real-time volume change for individual PARTS of a PATTERN or SONG MIXING, then Master Mode is for you.

By associating your PATTERN with a Master Mode location, and activating the ZONE switches to address Internal sounds, and setting your 4 (Up to 8) ZONES to separate MIDI channels, you can play and volume-mix up to 8 different sounds (PARTS) at the same time in Master Mode!

If this sounds interesting to you, then you should start with This Article.

Thank’s.  I’ve skimmed over it before but I’m reading it again with a new understanding.  It’s funny.  Just before I posted this topic I associated my pattern to a Master.  It didn’t play my main sounds since there on midi 2, starting on track 2.  It’s gonna take a bit to figure this all out.  I’m reading through the article now.  Thank’s.

mikebengel - 01 September 2013 05:39 PM

...In pattern mode I’ve got 4 tracks that are on the same Midi Channel.  As you know if you move the volume slider it connects all 4 track volumes together as the same.  If I go to Pattern Mixer then highlight the volume and use the Dial.  I can change them all independently then save it as a scene.  Is there another way or am I on the right track?....

I meant to add this post a couple of days ago:  If you only have (4) PARTS (Or fewer) you are addressing, you certainly have the option of doing it in PERFORMANCE Mode.  Here, although all of the PARTS are on the same MIDI channel (The same as you have it set up in PATTERN Mode), you are able to use the faders to individually control the volume of each PART.  I use PERFORMANCE Mode quite often in this fashion...when I do not need to exceed (4) PARTS.

When you need more than (4) PARTS available, then the MASTER Mode solution outlined in the document referenced above is the way to go.

This thread has been unbelievably helpful to me.

I have a Pattern set up for a song I’m learning to play (Comes A Time by the Grateful Dead). Section A is the lead-in and chorus. Section B is the verse followed by the chorus again. Section C is a 2 bar jam. I have the “backup band” recorded in the first 3 tracks of Sections A-C.

I have lead instruments set up as follows: Track 4 (bass, left side of keyboard, Track 5 (Full Tine, right side of keyboard), Track 6 (sax, right side of keyboard). I use Scenes to switch between the two right side lead instruments.

What I do is hit Play in Section A and play lead. During the last bar of Section A, I hit the “B” key, and the machine switches seamlessly to Section B when the bar ends. Then I let Section B loop for as long as I want to.

When it’s time to do the jam part, I switch to Section C at the end of Section B. When I’m done jamming, I switch back to Section B.

In order to have different instruments for each hand, I had to “yoke” Tracks 4 & 5 together by having them both receive on MIDI channel 4. But that meant I couldn’t adjust the volumes individually except by using the spinner in Mixing mode.

I just finished setting up a Master to control this Pattern, and now I can control the volumes using the physical sliders. And the Scene buttons I set up in the Pattern work perfectly.

It all works great, and once again I’m totally pleased with and grateful for this forum. Thanks, everyone!

Glad you’ve figured it out.  I’m still baby stepping through using Master Mode.  It’s gonna take me a little bit.  I do have another volume kinda issue that maybe you could answer.  I have two different guitar arps playing on different scene’s.  With the guitar on both scenes being the same volume, the arp is alot louder on the second scene.  If I turn the voice volume down for the second scene, switching back to the first scene the volume goes back up like it’s programed before the arp finishes and starts the arp from the first.  Then it’s quiet again when the 1st scene arp starts.

Should I change the velocity for the second arp instead?  Not sure.  Basically, If your not following what I’m saying.  The scene change is instant for the volume but the arp has to finish it’s measure before it changes.  So it get’s real loud at the end of the measure when switching scenes.

Hope that makes sense.

mikebengel - 08 September 2013 05:52 AM

Hope that makes sense.

It does, and I understand your problem. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the answer is.

I’ll be watching to see what the gurus have to say about this.

I do have another volume kinda issue that maybe you could answer.  I have two different guitar arps playing on different scene’s.  With the guitar on both scenes being the same volume, the arp is alot louder on the second scene.  If I turn the voice volume down for the second scene, switching back to the first scene the volume goes back up like it’s programed before the arp finishes and starts the arp from the first.  Then it’s quiet again when the 1st scene arp starts.

There are too many variables here to say exactly what is going on… Because how an arp behaves can be different depending on the Arp TYPE and the current Arp settings. I would be hard pressed to come up with a statement that would apply to all Arps.

Based on this description I began setting up what I thought you meant, then I realized for me to even experience what you are talking about I would need to know what we’re dealing with.

You say “the guitar on both scenes being the same volume”, do you mean they are set to the same volume setting or are sounding at the same volume?

Two items at the same Volume setting can sound widely different in how loud they are because, more than likely, the Voices being Arp’d are influenced by the Velocity of the data controlling it. Two Piano Voices set to a Volume of 127, can sound widely different in terms of musical output (how loud)… It depends on the performer.

And since Velocity values, as well as the controller Expression cc011, can be built-in to the arpeggio phrase data itself… There are too many variables to just answer your question, without really knowing specifics.

But here’s something else to throw in the mix, when you touch the keys to input chord control information, most keyboard players (I was surprised to learn) are totally unaware that the velocity of that chord control is a variable that can be used… And programmed.

That is, you have a parameter that lets you influence the musical output level of the Arp phrase. On many, but not all, of the arpeggio phrases the Velocity Mode is set to “original” which means you are accepting the velocity as programmed by the author of the phrase. If you set the parameter, Velocity Mode = “thru” the value of your key-on control notes will influence the playback velocity of the Phase.

Of course, the entire Phrase plays back at the trigger chord’s velocity… Unlike normal playing where you continually influence the output with velocity - here your trigger chord or note is responsible for the output level of the entire Phrase. Make sense… Much like turning on a sampled audio clip… The Note-on that triggers it is the sole event that determines the output volume throughout.

You can see why most musical Arps you encounter are set to Velocity Mode = “original"… It’s because you have to work a bit (practice) to make the “thru” function work smoothly… Of course it can be done, you just have to be aware you are controlling this.

Arps can be set to play there entire phrase looping continuously (hold), but they also can be set to trigger only when you are in contact with the keys. Whether the Arp phrase continues to advance, while unheard, when you lift your hand (sounds strange to say) is a programmable parameter. When Arp Hold = SYNC-OFF, the phrase continues to advance through its entire length, so that when you lift your hand the phrase continues to advance, unheard. This allows for unique rhythmic control options for the performer.

Anyway, all I can tell you without more specific details is there are many parameters in play; Not all Arps Types behave the same way;

I’m not sure if any of this helps in your situation but if you don’t find a solution, please give us some specific details or at least what is supposed to happen in your viewpoint (how you would like it to behave).

Thank’s Bad Mister for all the info.  I could have you duplicate my situation but I don’t really believe it’s necessary at this point.  It’s pretty simple, if I could just explain it that way.  Breaks down like this--->

1 guitar track with arp - scene1 - volume 100
same guitar track with different arp - scene2 - volume 50

Scene2 arp has alot higher velocity so plays louder.  That’s why the volume is at 50, so both scenes play at the same loudness.

Situation is when I’m playing scene2 then press scene1.  The volume for that track instantly goes back to 100 as scene1 indicates.  So the arp that was playing from scene2 jumps to volume 100 as it finishes to a whole measure then switches to the arp that’s in scene1.

I’m thinking that maybe I need to adjust the velocity level on the track for scene 2.  It’s a matter of switching scenes and having the programed volume or parameters instantly change for that scene before the arp finishes and changes to the new arp in the next scene.

Thank’s, for looking into this.

Everything is working as it should. The Scene recalls the settings you’ve made. Recalling an arp is a casual thing because it can be programmed so that you have a window of time in which to pre-trigger the command to change.

For example, if the Arp is set to change at the top of the next measure, you can trigger the SF button anywhere in the measure preceding where you want the phrase to switch. casual…

SCENE changes have to be made spot on point. Typically they are triggered when you are not playing the keyboard, or they are automated to their own playback track; the SCENE track.

Scene Events can be recorded and placed precisely in the sequencer to automate change. We are no fully aware of what you are doing but, according to your description… If you could hit the SCENE button precisely in the right place everything would be fine. see if automating the SCENE recall event will work for you.

SCENE RECALL EVENTS can be automated in a linear SONG… Don’t know if that would work for you.