Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
Mr Trier
Total Posts: 14
Joined 03-02-2013 status: Regular |
Hello all! I’ve been using an S90ES for a couple of years and I absolutely love it! It’s easy to use, easy to program and so on. And most important - it sounds amazing! The sounds are warm, full, fat, sparkly, vibrant - call it want you want. It simply sounds good! Not the least the Natural S piano wich sounds very, very good. So a couple of months back I bought an Motix XF6 to put on top of the S90ES. And naturally I expected the XF to sound even better than the ES but to my surpris it doesn’t?
The biggest disapointment is the sound of the pianos. The stock piano Pre:01 sounds rather weak and harsh compared to the ES, almost spikey.
And I can sort of hear that the S700 sound in the XF is the same as in the ES but it doesn’t sound as good! (Please note that I use the same settings on the mixer for both synths and also play both sounds from the ES’s keybed so it’s not a question of different key-feeling.)
The questions I have is:
Overall - it does not sound bad, it does not sound faulty. But it does not sound as good as the ES does and that surprises me. I’ve tried to locate another XF nearby to try out but have not succeded. I would very much appreciate if anyone has some knowledge about this problem. //Mr Trier |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
The pre-set VOICES of the machine are a certain sound designer’s idea of how that particular sound might please the greatest number of users...how subjective is that! In your fairly lengthy post, you never once mention the obvious: There is an amazing array of tools in the machine to shape, form, twist, refine, and just plain change how these VOICES sound. So...do you use this incredible tool kit to work on the pre-sets and customize them for what YOU like? Or do you live and die by how they sound right out of the box on any given machine? |
SpongeBob
Total Posts: 1588
Joined 11-19-2006 status: Guru |
As noted the XF will benefit from tweaking to suit your needs. The S700 in the S90ES was one of those piano sounds that was just perfect sounding for so many users, but I think the stock XS/XF piano is pretty good as well, it just has a different character. Like you, I have the S700 loaded in my XF and added some reverb to suit my taste. You will have to experiment to find your favorite spot, but you should not look for it to exactly match the ES. The internals are a bit different between the devices so there may always be some difference. I have an ES6 and XS Rack (I should have Yamaha stock as well)and some will say the ES sounds better on some voices than the XS or XF. To me it’s simply a matter of taste. I think people simply prefer the sound of one to the other, so neither is really better or worse. Different stings on my acoustic guitar give it a different tone, but it’s the same guitar. Just an example. Bob |
Mr Trier
Total Posts: 14
Joined 03-02-2013 status: Regular |
Thank you both for your replies!
Tweaked the pre-sets?
The S6-samples are to spikey for my taste I have not succeded in making them sound good. I’m fully aware that taste differs (hence so many different voices =) ), therefore my question more or less is if the S90ES and the XF are targeted to different users soundwise? It wouldn’t be that far fetched (in my mind at least) if the S90ES was more suited for live situations and that the sounds themselves were designed to work as good as possible on a stage. And that the XF were designed with studio-work in mind and that the sounds were especially made for that? I know that there’s a pdf here somewhere wich especially deals with tweaking piano-voices. I’ll read that thoroughly. Once again thank you for your replies! //Mr T |
CesarSound
Total Posts: 572
Joined 12-25-2005 status: Guru |
I also have a S90ES and Motif XS and confirm that the pianos are better on ES. I love the S90ES. Julio. |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
Seriously guys, if you don’t care for some aspect of the XF (XS) stock pianos, CHANGE THEM! It is literally mind-blowing how you can customize these sounds! You are not ‘stuck’ with the preset VOICES! I am sure the S90ES is a wonderful keyboard. I have no experience with it, but my post here is not about the S90ES. The stock pianos on my XF8 didn’t thrill me either. I really did not care much for the sounds the Factory Programmer(s) had come up with for the standard piano presets. What did I do? I spent a half hour with the amazing tools the XF gives you to re-program the VOICES, and now I have excellent go-to Grand and Rock piano sounds that I have really made into MY pianos. Believe me, I am no programmer or sound designer, just a lifelong piano player that really appreciates what I am able to do with this machine by being willing to spend some time and experimentation to get the sounds I like! You bought an amazing workstation with amazing tools for customization! Why not use them? |
Mr Trier
Total Posts: 14
Joined 03-02-2013 status: Regular |
@cmayhle You miss my point. Of course I know that there are excellent tools in the XF for tweaking the voices to your specific taste. I use some of them. I also know that there is a lot of 3rd party voice libraries to buy. That is not my question.
As I said, I was surprised when I played many of the stock voices and therefore asked two specific questions:
//Mr T |
DavePolich
Total Posts: 6820
Joined 07-27-2002 status: Guru |
Can’t answer your first question without at least hearing your specific
Second question - the S90ES uses an older CPU chip and sample waveforms that are entirely different from the XF. Are the piano voices in each
So, yes, the XF pianos will definitely sound different than your S90ES
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anotherscott
Total Posts: 653
Joined 06-30-2010 status: Guru |
But aren’t the waveforms of the S700 piano for the XF (part of the Inspiration in a Flash download) the same as the S700 in the S90ES? Like the OP, I think, I had been under the impression that the S700 download for the Motif XS/XF should be virtually indistinguishable from the S700 in the S90ES. I’d be curious to know if other people have found them to sound different; and if so, if there’s any consensus as to which of the two sounds better; and what the source of any difference might be. |
DavePolich
Total Posts: 6820
Joined 07-27-2002 status: Guru |
Yes, I’m pretty sure the S700 piano is the S90ES piano. But because the
This whole discussion reminds me of numerous past ones, including arguments over whether the Motif Classic sounded better than the Motif XS. People simply get accustomed to a particular sound, and
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anotherscott
Total Posts: 653
Joined 06-30-2010 status: Guru |
In terms of general architecture, the XF seems to be basically a superset of the ES… i.e. 8 elements with XA vs. 4 elements without… so with the same waveforms, I think you should be able to get any “unprocessed” ES sound out of an XF, though not vice versa. But yes, DSP is different between the two, and in addition to effects, I assume it is also possible that things like EQ, filters and envelopes may behave slightly differently. The thing about something like a basic piano, though, is that (as I understand it), the basic sound is pretty much just one of sample key assignment and velocity mapping. Variations (like tacky/honky-tonk and so on) may involve effects, EQ, filters, etc., but I thought that the basic “primary patch” wouldn’t be likely to incorporate any such parameter that would vary from one system to the other. In that case, with basically sample mapping and no other processing, would any difference in sound between the ES and the XF be due simply to the different DACs? |
prodigio@hotmail.it
Total Posts: 14
Joined 04-27-2013 status: Regular |
Hi all,
Motif XF6 or XF7 have beautiful touch and feel! Great Organs, Brass and Pads… some good electrical piano sound, standard yamaha strings… programming is complete but very difficult… and the operating system in XF series is slow :( I Love only S90ES! and I use Motif XF7 just as the master keyboard (or few sounds) |
I_Too_Say_So_Long
Total Posts: 728
Joined 09-20-2011 status: Guru |
Always good to hear a happy story of personal journey discovering what they like. Thanks for posting yours. :)
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Michiel D
Total Posts: 191
Joined 11-16-2009 status: Pro |
Here’s my two cents .... Newer or biggen isn’t always better. As mentioned, there’s always personal taste.
My current XS replaced the ES and I had similar feelings the frist couple of weeks: I found the sounds of the ES more ‘alive’, maybe les polished or ‘hifi’ then the XS. The good thing is I sold the ES and now I’ve got used to the XS. The big colour display, from performance directory to ‘record mode’, getting to like the XS more and more (see my post ‘beter hammonds’ on the forum). The only thing I Miss is the biggen sequencer memory of the ES (biggen is better in this case)… OS is a bit slow, too. But that’s a minor niggle (when loading files from USB, things go slow). The Motif still is my one and only machine for quickly composing and recording songs! The SY77 feels like analogue compared to digital, when playing it directly after the Motif, but especially since there’s no PLG option in the XS, the SY is a great addition! : ). Soundwise, to me, the SY77 is the best, for quick recordings, ti’s the Motif.
Conclusion: of you really like a synth for it’s sound, don’t sell it! : )
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I_Too_Say_So_Long
Total Posts: 728
Joined 09-20-2011 status: Guru |
I agree. My Dutch is not good…
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motidave
Total Posts: 426
Joined 10-03-2010 status: Enthusiast |
Curious, if you could describe some of the more significant tweaks you made that you thought created a better sound (for you)? Yes, I accept its subjective, but you are a guru in these parts. I’m a fumbling journeyman programmer, I know all the features and screens in my XF at last, but I’m not schooled in basic synthesis, much less synthetic creation of acoustic tones, so sometimes I hit, sometimes I miss. |