Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
My X3A “all” files have been running around 2.5 MB for years. All of a sudden, they are around 5.2 MB. I didn’t make any major changes that I know of. What gives? Is there some way to tell why the files are so much bigger all of a sudden? |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
A 2 to 2.5MB file would be a typical ALL File without any samples. It sounds like you SAVED a sample or two, that is all it would take to get to that size. Go to File Load and choose WAV or AIFF or Waveform as the file Type and click Enter on the ALL file and see what shows up. Or...is it possible your ALL file could of ended up with (2) of everything(?) I don’t even know if that could happen. |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
I don’t have any samples. This started after I was developing a Python script to read X3A files, and I was setting up various items on my xf and then saving them in a new X3A file, and then reloading my most recent backup X3A file. Is there something I could have done in that process to cause this? |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
This is an interesting situation. I’m inclined to think along the lines that cmayhle suggested (some samples), because otherwise something strange seems to have happened. Even if the sequencer memory gets filled, that only adds about 1MB to an ALL file, so it can’t be that. I don’t remember if you have a flash module installed, but if not there’s still the 128MB User memory. When you said “I don’t have any samples”, did you check, or are you saying that you didn’t intentionally load any? If you loaded one or more Voices while working on the Python script, perhaps there are associated samples that you’re unaware of. I’d suggest powering up the XF without loading any files (turn off Auto Load if you’ve been using it), so that the User sample memory is definitely empty. Then save an ALL file, and check its size. Since you obviously have a backup of your work, you could also do a factory reset, and again save an ALL file and see if the size reverts to “normal”. If there’s still a mystery, I suppose you could examine the content of the larger X3A files and compare to previous smaller ones. Please do keep us posted - I’d like to know if “the butler did it”. |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
I have one 128 MB flash module installed.
I never intentionally created or loaded any
I don’t use Auto Load.
Good thought. I’ll try that.
I printed out one of the larger ones with my Python script. It printed all the same stuff as it did with one of the smaller ones. |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
Correct me if I am wrong, but your script isn’t set up to identify or even “see” sample files is it? Just for fun, plug in your ALL file and go to LOAD and set the Type for WAV and/or waveform, and see if any files show up there. Since the TYPE field is really a filter, you can zero-in on what types of files are in the group. You could go through the same exercise setting the Type to VOICE, and see if there are duplicates. It’s interesting that your ALL file size is almost exactly double what a typical ALL file would be. |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
Does doing a factory reset have any effect on what’s stored in my flash module? |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
Yamaha has only either 512MB (FL512M) or 1GB (FL1024M) flash modules available. It’s the User sample memory, which is volatile, that’s sized at 128MB.
A factory reset will not affect flash module contents (contrary to anything that states otherwise). |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
Oops, that should have been 512 MB.
Excellent. Thanks. I’ll go ahead and do that and see what happens. |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
You’re correct. Eventually it will show more things but it doesn’t yet.
Great advice! I’ll try it. |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
I extended my Python script (see “Print Motif File” thread) to print out all of the datatypes documented by Chris Webb. Running that new script against my normal-sized files vs. my big new ones revealed that I all of a sudden have a lot of new Waveforms in the file. I didn’t do anything that should have caused this so their presence is a mystery to me. I’m attaching printouts of the old (small) and new (big) files and I’d appreciate it if someone who knows about Waveforms could take a look and tell me what they think might be going on. This seems like kind of an ominous bug to me, and I’d really like to find out how to avoid it in the future. File Attachments
bkp.2013-03-16.n3.X3A.txt (File Size: 43KB - Downloads: 791) bkp.2013-06-09.n3.X3A.txt (File Size: 69KB - Downloads: 297) |
cmayhle
Total Posts: 3116
Joined 10-05-2011 status: Guru |
There are many ways to STORE and SAVE duplicate WAVEFORMS inadvertently, and it appears that is what has happened...not a bug. For example, in your second file, the WAVEFORMS numbered 189 to 202 are identical to the WAVEFORMS numbered 336 to 349 which are identical to those numbered 630 to 643. These are just an example of duplicate (triplicate) WAVEFORMS that jumped out at me, there probably are many more. You will find that as of OS Version 1.10 there is a “Delete Same Name Waveforms” Job (In the Waveform Jobs). You won’t find this Job described in the Reference Manual, but it is in the Supplemental Manual (on page 9). You can use this Job to delete duplicate-named WAVEFORMS with the same number of KEYBANKS. The John Melas Waveform Editor software is also very efficient at this task. There is no mechanism in the XF to guard against STORING or SAVING duplicate WAVERFORMS (AFAIK), and duplicate WAVEFORMS could certainly account for the 2.5MB or so differential between your older “typical” ALL file and your newer “bloated” ALL file. |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
I’d suggest that you read the following support article, even if you’ve done so previously:
Since you have a flash module, note in particular the difference between LOADing FL1/FL2 with the setting ”without sample” versus ”None”.
Quoting a small part of the article:
|
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
Yep, that’s what I did. :-( That’s a really helpful article that I had not previously encountered. What’s the best way to fix this? All I have on the flash module is what came with Inspiration in a Flash. I could delete everything from the flash module and then reload my most recent smaller “all” file, setting it to load FL1 from the file. Then I could load the most recent larger file, setting it to load nothing into FL1. Would that work? Is there a better way? |
Michael Trigoboff
Total Posts: 647
Joined 09-05-2011 status: Guru |
I found this and tried to use it. The problem is, there are around 1500 different numbers on FL1 that have duplicate waveforms, and you apparently have to do the numbers one at a time. That’s impractical. Or am I missing some way that would get it to delete all of the duplicates at once? |
5pinDIN
Total Posts: 11891
Joined 09-16-2010 status: Legend |
What you’ve described would likely be the easiest and fastest way to eliminate the duplicate Waveforms, given the large number of duplicates, but only if the ALL file was saved “with sample”. (If you’re speaking of a 2.5MB file, that obviously didn’t include the IIAF samples.) Then it should do the trick, as long as the most recent file doesn’t have changes in the Voice-Waveform associations versus the earlier/smaller file. Otherwise, you might have to resort to the Waveform Job approach. |