Hi,

I’d like to ask about audio output in Studio One. And give details about what I am doing, enough I hope : )

I have Studio One (pro) and, please shoot me, I prefer this DAW. I can make an Audio Track to record the MOX. Recording more audio tracks is no problem. And there is audio playback from the Macbook Pro to the MOX. In de Macbook, in- and outputs are set to the MOX. Also I can record a Performance as an Audio Track. Everything fine till so far. And with help of articles and threads. And, last but not least, with help of threads to get good audio input levels.

When I open the Yamaha VST in Studio One, the VST is working fine. That means that settings made in the VST immediately change the sound and, for example, turning the panning on the MOX changes the panning setting in the VST. When I change a sound in the VST, the MOX immediately gives that sound and I can play with it. So then, there is audio playback.

When I make an Instrument Track however, I am able to record a track and the midi windows shows the recorded notes. But then, there is no audio playback to the MOX.

When opening the Yamaha VST a message appears that there is no audio port connection.

In the VST, I select File, then VSTi Setup and there are no ports to see and no ports to select. I have selected the Online option.

Any other VST, like Omnisphere, is working, when I record, there is audio playback to the MOX. So the problem only happens in the Yamaha VST.

BUT, in Cubase (that came with the MOX) this problem does not happen. The VSTi Setup in the Yamaha VST does show the outputs or let me choose Auto to select the outputs. When I record an Instrument Track, there is audio playback to the MOX. So in Cubase no problem.

So my question is about not having audio playback for an Instrument Track in Studio One, only when using the Yamaha VST. I attached a prntscrn and hope that someone can give an answer or a hint in the good direction.

Bye,
Jaap.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

I have Studio One. I’m pretty certain that
you cannot assign the Yamaha VST as an
instrument track, even though it appears
as an instrument in the list. The reason is
that Instrument Track is for software VST’s
that are on your conputer and that Studio
One “ hosts”.

You can see these VST’s in your screenshot,
right below the MO X VST. And as you said,
you can get sound from the other VST instruments
in the list.

I’m not a Studio One expert, sorry. If you
have further questions, you should contact
PreSonus tech support.

I have Studio One. I’m pretty certain that
you cannot assign the Yamaha VST as an
instrument track, even though it appears
as an instrument in the list. The reason is
that Instrument Track is for software VST’s
that are on your conputer and that Studio
One “ hosts”.

Thank’s a lot Dave. If I understand you well, the Yamaha VST is not a software VST? Is that maybe because it takes it’s sounds from the MOX and not, like the other VST’s from the very software itself, like a soft synth? If this is correct, do you have maybe an idea why Cubase, also a sophisticed DAW, can do the trick by giving audio output ports to the Yamaha VST?

I’ll also ask the Presonus tech support.

Bye,
Jaap.

Jaap,

Cubase gives also VST Audio in and out by way of the Steinberg Yamaha USB driver.

I don’t know Studio One and don’t profess to have the answer, but VST routing means that if you have selected the audio ports elsewhere then they will not show up within the VSTi SETUP. For example, if you have the ports in use somewhere else within your program (say as regular audio inputs - that might be set by default), if this is the case then the returns will not sppear within the MOX VST.

Make sure there are no Audio inputs setup elsewhere in the program using the MOX returns you want to use within the MOX Editor VST.

I’m trying S1 at the moment.  I haven’t given it much of a workout yet so I can’t give a definitive answer, but I think it might involve setting up what S1 calls “External Devices” in its options menu.

You’ll need a “Keyboard” device for the MOX’s MIDI input, and an “Instrument” device for the MOX VST.

Also, have a look at this thread…

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/463596/

Some info there might be useful.

And some YT Vids - not specific to MOX, but again, possibly useful…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltW8MOpPoK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slpkkoiMj1Y

Let us know how you get on with this.  If only because S1 is one of the few DAWs that load VST 3 plugins.

Hi,

Thanks a lot for all the input. Have been busy to investigate all mentioned options and information. My conclusion till now is that most probably having no audio output (only) in the Yamaha VST has to do with the Steinberg driver. This driver sure works for Cubase and give audio outputs there for the Yamaha VST, but not in Studio One. It goes beyond my knowledge if it is possible to connect such a driver to Studio One.

And again, multitrack audio recording with my very beloved MOX in Studio One is possible.

Still waiting for a reply from the Presonus forum and if there is no reply I’ll ask the tech support.

It is not a life or death issue, what I wanted to do is to record from the Yamaha VST and then be able to do midi editing, mostly just adjusting the volume of some notes in for example a piano part that are too loud or too soft. From other VST’s in Studio One I can do this. My solution is just to record such a track in Cubase, do the midi editing there and bring the .wav of that track into Studio One.

But who knows, maybe there is an answer. If so, I’ll report of course.

Bye,
Jaap.

An addition from the Yamaha MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST manual:

An audio connection between the MOX6/MOX8 instrument and the computer is needed to use the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST correctly. With such a connection, the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST provides full functionality, including the freeze function, mixing within the Audio Mixer of Cubase series, and other convenient features common to other VST instrument software.
When connecting the computer and instrument directly via Yamaha Steinberg USB driver, the audio connection (Port settings, etc.) will be set automatically. When connecting the computer and instrument by using the separate audio interface via Yamaha Steinberg USB driver, you should set the audio connection manually. After installing the audio interface driver correctly, select the audio ports in the VSTi Setup window within the MOX6/MOX8 Editor VST
Note.  When using the MIDI connection via Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver, you need to select the audio ports in the VSTi Setup window. If no audio port is selected, or no audio device is installed to the computer, an error message appears. Make sure to set the audio ports in the VSTi Setup window.

Hello,

About having no audio output for the Yamaha VST in Studio One, I received this message from the Presonus tech support:

“In regards to the VSTi that you have with the Yamaha MOX8, I would make sure that Yamaha supports that plugin with Studio One 2. If so, they should have an idea of what could be causing the problem.”

Does anyone, maybe Bad Mister, have a suggestion who at Yamaha I could contact about this?

I also had a question to Presonus about my second beauty, the Tyros 4 : ) I would love to be able to record the T4 in Studio One on 16 track at the same, especially for the accompaniment tracks (9-16). Still busy with that, if anyone might be interested in the answer (if I can get it), please let me know.

Bye,
Jaap.

It sounds to me like Presonus are passing the buck.  A common tactic in the software world.

Anyway, I’ve got Studio One open in front of me now as I type, and I can assure you: it does work.

Try this…

1) Start a New Song in S1 and open the “External Devices” menu (Studio One / Options / External Devices)

2) Click the “New” button and create a “New Keyboard”

3) Name it “MOX Keyboard” - Select “All MIDI Channels” - Receive From “Yamaha MOX6/MOX8-1” - Send To “None” - Check “Default Instrument Input” and click “OK”

4) Now create a “New Instrument” from the same menu - Name it “MOX Synth” - Receive From “Yamaha MOX6/MOX8-1” (you might get a warning about shared MIDI ports here, just OK it) - Send to “Yamaha MOX6/MOX8-1” - Select “All MIDI Channels” - check “Send MIDI Clock” if you want the Arps to sync to S1 - Click OK and close the menu

5) Create two “Instrument Tracks” and drag the MOX VST on to the first one.  If the VST says “Offline”, just click it and it will sync and change to “Online”.

6) Name this track “MOX Control”.  You will not be using this track to record MIDI.

7) On the second Instrument Track, set the Input to “MOX Keyboard”, and the Output to “MOX Synth (The two devices you just created).  Name the track “MOX CH 1” and set its MIDI Channel to 1.

8) Now, create an “Audio Track” and set its Input to “Yamaha MOX Input 3/4” (or whatever you’ve named it).

9) Record some MIDI on the second Instrument Track (MOX CH 1).

10) Arm the Audio Track and play back the MIDI.

You can now record the audio from your MOX.

You can also use the VST (MOX Control) track to edit the MOX and change sounds etc.

Just create more Instrument tracks and follow step 7 above for other MIDI channels.

Create more Audio Tracks when you want to print a MIDI parts.

Just follow these steps and it will work.  If it doesn’t, then you’re doing something wrong.

I can assure you, it’s working fine here.

GOOD LUCK :)

P.S.  Regarding step 4 above:  “Send MIDI Clock” in Studio One is fu@#ed - it doesn’t work properly.  If you try to start a MOX song from S1’s transport, you can’t stop it the same way.  Just try it.  It’s crap!  However, the MOX Arps sync perfectly.  Just make sure you use an Empty MOX Song when working with MIDI.

I took another look at your original post and I think I know where you’re going wrong.

Hasseltmotif - 24 February 2013 01:49 PM

...I can make an Audio Track to record the MOX. Recording more audio tracks is no problem. And there is audio playback from the Macbook Pro to the MOX. In de Macbook, in- and outputs are set to the MOX. Also I can record a Performance as an Audio Track…

That’s good..!

Hasseltmotif - 24 February 2013 01:49 PM

...the VST is working fine.

That’s good too..!

But…

Hasseltmotif - 24 February 2013 01:49 PM

When I make an Instrument Track however, I am able to record a track and the midi windows shows the recorded notes. But then, there is no audio playback to the MOX.

I know why.  But first I need to explain what’s going under-the-hood in Studio One.  I sincerely hope this doesn’t sound patronising.  I’m just trying to help you solve this.

Firstly, there are two types of track in Studio One - Audio Tracks & Instrument Tracks.

Audio Tracks are self-explanatory: They record and playback audio.  An Audio track contains and audio file and has an associated Mixer Channel.

Instrument Tracks are a little confusing at first, but the most important thing to bear in mind is, they don’t contain any audio data.  In other words; you won’t ever hear audio directly from an instrument track.  This is evident from the absence of an associated audio channel.

So how does it work..?

Basically, the MIDI output from an instrument track needs to be routed to either a soft-synth (VSTi), or an External Device.

Routing it directly to the MOX VST Editor simply won’t work and you won’t hear any audio.  Why..?  Because the VST Editor does not produce any audio..!

The signal from the MOX VST Editor goes out on a different MIDI Port (port 4 I think - correct me if I’m wrong BM), so your recorded MIDI isn’t getting to the the MOX Sound Engine anyway, which is set to MIDI Port 1.

As I pointed out in my previous post, you need to set up an External Instrument Device in Studio One ("New Instrument” Send To MIDI Port 1), then route the instrument track to that device - NOT THE MOX VST EDITOR..!

Don’t worry about the VST Editor setup.  As you said, “It’s working fine” - the audio in/out too - leave well alone, and set up an External Device.

When you think about it, it’s exactly the same as Cubase, except Cubase’s MIDI tracks have an associated channel strip in the mixer with MIDI volume, pan etc.

Although Studio One doesn’t have MIDI volume faders in the mixer, it doesn’t matter because the MOX VST Editor (which is on it’s own separate Instrument Track) is only a click away, and that’s where you set up your MIDI mix.

I hope this helps.

Hello Andy,

It’s a pity you don’t live here, I’d bought you a BIG Dutch cigar : )))

It works exactly as you described. And I’m very happy with it, being able to use the midi editor of S1 now. So many thanks, also for your explanation about how it works under the engine. I understand now how it works. I appreciate your time and effort.

There is one question remaining now, do you maybe have the answer to this too?

It’s about converting the instrument track to an audio track. I understand now that there is no audio in the instrument track. The attachment shows the result of your instruction. And the message that is given when I convert the recording to an audio track. And it makes sense now, because there is no VST connected to that track; the VST is dragged to the first track. I can record the recording back in the sequencer (Song Mode) of the MOX so I could record it as audio in S1 again, but I wonder if that is the solution.

Do you know how to record or convert the instrument-recording as audio?

Bye,
Jaap.

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

HAHAHA :)

Can I have a Dutch beer with that cigar Jaap..?

Hey, I’m glad you got it working now :)

And as to your second question…

Do you know how to record or convert the instrument-recording as audio?

The answer is - yes, I do.  It’s easy.

Firstly, what you tried to do in your screenshot only works for software instruments (VSTi), and it’s there for a good reason. 

Let’s say you’re using something like Studio One’s “Presence” instrument with an electric piano patch loaded.  Then you pile a bunch of insert effects on to that track (compressor, EQ, flanger, delay, reverb or whatever).  You’re giving your computer a lot of work to do (CPU Load) - just take a look at the performance meter in Studio One at the bottom.

If your project only uses a few tracks, this CPU load won’t be a problem - most computers these days are powerful enough.  However, if you’ve got A LOT of tracks, the computer will begin sweating and you might get audio glitches.

Converting CPU intensive Instrument Tracks to Audio Tracks means that all those plugins are no longer needed and the computer’s work-load is reduced.  The effects get “printed” onto the audio part.

External Instruments - like the MOX - don’t use any of your computer’s CPU to make great sounds.  But then you can’t directly use any software effects on those sounds because they’re not coming from the computer.

To get the MOX’s audio into the computer, you need to actually record it in real-time.  There’s no other way.

Here’s how…

1) Once you’re happy with the MIDI part, un-tick the record arm button on that track.  Then select the audio track and make sure it’s input is set to receive the MOX audio (see screenshot “S1 MIDI MOX").  You can use stereo or mono inputs here, it just depends on what you want.  For something like a bass or lead sound, I would use a mono input.  But for a pad sound, I’d use stereo.  It’s up to you.

2) Arm the Audio Track and hit record.  WARNING..! Any and all sounds you hear from the MOX will be recorded onto that track at this point.  So if you’ve already created a few Instrument Tracks that use the MOX (bass, drums & piano), then you need to record them to audio tracks one-at-a-time.  Do this by muting the ones you don’t want to record.  Then create a new Audio Track for the next part, and so-on…

3) Once your MOX Instrument tracks are recorded into S1, you can edit & mix normally.  You will no longer need the Instrument (MIDI) Tracks, so mute them all and pack them into a folder.  You can delete them if you want to, but I wouldn’t recommend it - you might need them again at some point.

Something else to consider…

LATENCY

Latency here means the time it takes from starting an action to it’s completion.

When you press a note on a keyboard, the information goes into the computer via MIDI, then it’s sent back to the MOX, again via MIDI.  This takes time, and the time it takes depends on your computer setup.

It also means that when you record an Audio Track from an Instrument track, the recorded audio will be late.

I’ve included some screenshots that demonstrate this.

Look closely at “S1 Audio Latency”.  You’ll notice that the audio peaks for this recorded drum part don’t line up exactly with the corresponding MIDI notes.  They’re a bit late.

On my computer they’re 9.9 milliseconds late.  You can find out your computer’s latency by opening the Yamaha/Steinberg ASIO Driver Control Panel (Studio One / Options / Audio Setup / Control Panel).  Look for “Output Latency”.

There are a few ways to fix this.  You can physically drag the recorded audio part backwards until it lines up, or you can use the “Delay” parameter in the “Inspector” for that track.

In my screenshot “Audio Latency 2”, I’ve set the Audio Track’s Delay parameter to -9.9 milliseconds.  Now when I play back the two tracks, there’s no delay - they’re perfectly in-sync.  Even though the audio peaks still appear late.

However, If I had entered -9.9 into the Instrument Track’s delay parameter BEFORE recording the audio, then the resulting audio file would have been perfectly in sync to begin with and the audio peaks would have reflected this too.  That’s the better way, but I chose to do it this way so you could SEE the delay.

To be honest, 9.9 milliseconds is hardly noticeable, and for a lot of material I won’t bother correcting it - pad sounds for example.  But for percussive sounds, especially if the song tempo is fast, it’s worth doing.

What you could do is create a Studio One Template Song with a few Instrument Tracks assigned to “MOX Synth” and their “Delay” parameters set to minus whatever your Output Latency is.  Then just use this template for any new songs you create with the MOX.

In fact, I should do this too.

As for Studio One, my trial period is almost up and I think I’m gonna buy it.  I really like the work-flow and it hasn’t crashed once so far.  I still have Cubase 5 on this system and like that too.  Cubase has much better MIDI editing and works really well with external gear, but it seems to take longer to do stuff compared to S1.

Anyway, it’s lunchtime now and I’ve typed a lot.

Good luck Jaap

Cheers :)

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

Hello Andy,

For this extended answer I’ve got a better idea than a Dutch beer, a BELGIUM beer straight from the abbey : )))

Many thanks again for your answer and also explanation about latency. It just works and indeed it is easy to record the midi-track to audio. I just forgot to switch the build-in audio to the MOX, happened before, such small things can keep one busy : )

I’m very happy to be able to use the Yamaha VST now. As for midi recording and midi editing and as for recording it to audio. The MOX is just such a great instrument.

It is for me also about the workflow that I use S1, just being a home amateur. Since I use it I had never to use the manual, and for my humble level of recording that says a lot. The issue with the Yamaha VST was the first one. No bad words for Cubase, I couldn’t even give a judgement about it considering my level of knowledge, but too much attention went to the recording technique.

Well, again, it is great you helped me out. Man!

Greetings,
Jaap.

OH YES PLEASE..!

I used to gig a lot in Belgium and I tried a lot of their beers.

BEST BEER IN THE WORLD..!

Can’t get anything like that here.

Anyway, I’m happy you’ve got everything working now. 

It’s 8pm here, so I’m gonna open a tin of Qingdao beer from China - it’s not that bad once you get used to it.

CHEERS..!

Andy M, big thank you for the tip!  I was pretty confused on how to use the MOX Editor on my setup but this has helped clear it up.  I was almost going to jump to Cubase because of the tight integration, but I really like the workflow of Studio One.  Once I set this up as a template, it will work nicely. 

Out of curiosity, why do you recommend setting the “MOX Synth” instrument to have MOX-1 as an input?  It seems that the only MIDI input that it takes is that which is routed from the other instrument tracks.

Also, this is my first setup where I’m using a software editor interface for a keyboard.  I have a few questions that maybe you can help with:
1)Is the general usage to fire up the MOX Editor in “Song” mode and then assign individual Studio One “instrument” tracks to address each channel?
2) When I sync the MOX editor VST, should the direction be from the computer to the keyboard or vice versa? 
3) If I’m using the VST plugin, then I don’t really need to store any mixing data on the MOX, right?  It will store it in the VST and re-load it whenever it syncs?
4) I noticed that if the MOX is in “song” mode, the name of the song doesn’t appear in the plugin.  Likewise, the plugin doesn’t give you an option of a location to store the mixing.  So if I ever wanted to store the mixing to the MOX, I’d basically have to go to an empty song on the MOX, name it, then load the MOX editor file and then store the mixing, right?

Thanks, Lee