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Viewing topic "How to turn a Performance into MIXING program?"

     
Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 12:39 AM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

HELP BUDDY’S!!

I’m still on my quest to have more than (4) Voices that I can use for splitting and layering on my original songs.

I was told to do the following:

Method 1:
Copying the Performance Edit settings to the MIXING Edit (Copy Performance)

You go to your [MIXING] program
Press [JOB]
Press [F3] COPY
Press [SF3] PERF

Select the attributes you wish to copy. This operation copies the PERFORMANCE to four PARTS of the MIXING program - and sets the PARTS to the same MIDI channel (so you can play them all at once).

Again, all I’m trying to do is add just a few more Voices (that can be played at the same time, either through layering or having additional splits) on my XF7.

Well, when I tried the above Method I got nowhere fast. Admittedly I started off on the wrong foot when I was told to go to my MIXING program (obviously different than THE MIXING program)

What MIXING program is MY MIXING program?

Here’s all I want to do just ONCE:

I want to take ANY Performance and turn it into what I’m told is a Mixing program so I can add, and someone throw me a bone here, just let me have (5) Parts.

How do I do that specifically?

Thanks guys!!!!!!!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 11:26 AM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

SURELY some MOTIFATOR Forum Member can walk me through the steps of what I need to do to accomplish the goal of my heavily viewed, (but not answered yet) previous Post regarding this topic!!

Either:
1) None of you want/need more than (4) Voices.
2) It’s actually not possible.

Thanks!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 11:51 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Press [SONG] or [PATTERN]
Select an empty location in which you will work.
Press [MIXING] to enter the area where you can select sounds

Follow the instructions for Method 1, as explained above.

Once you have copied your Performance to this MIXING program you can add your fifth Part by setting the MIDI Receive channel of the Part…

With the MIXING light lit
Press [EDIT]
Press a Part Select button [1]
Press [F1] VOICE
Press [SF1] VOICE
Here you can see the MIDI receive channel
Use the numbered buttons 1-16 to select and view the parameters for the different Parts.

Remember to press [STORE] when you have completed your editing.

Try reading the manual once you have accomplished this so you get a sense of how it explains this type of thing. Do not assume that it is not explained.

See the REFERENCE MANUAL page 194 “PART Basic Settings”
See the REFERENCE MANUAL page 197 “Copying the Performance Edit settings to the Mixing Edit (Copy Performance)”.

It will help you fill in some of the basic concepts you seem to be missing out on.

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Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 11:53 AM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3056
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
jerrydpi - 03 February 2013 12:39 AM

Again, all I’m trying to do is add just a few more Voices (that can be played at the same time, either through layering or having additional splits) on my XF7.

Well, when I tried the above Method I got nowhere fast. Admittedly I started off on the wrong foot when I was told to go to my MIXING program (obviously different than THE MIXING program)


What MIXING program is MY MIXING program?

Here’s all I want to do just ONCE:

I want to take ANY Performance and turn it into what I’m told is a Mixing program so I can add, and someone throw me a bone here, just let me have (5) Parts.

How do I do that specifically?

Thanks guys!!!!!!!

Hey jerrydpi, I am not sure which part of this is not working for you, but I’ll try to help.

‘Your’ (’My’) Mixing Program just means “A” Mixing Program!  Hit the Song button, hit the Mixing button, and Bam! you are in “Your Mixing Program”.  Make sure after you hit the Song button you are at a Song you want to screw around with.  The Demo Songs live in the first several slots.

After that, simply follow the instructions you have reproduced above to drop the PERFORMANCE into PARTS 1-4, which will all come in on Receive Channel (1).  Now, if you want to, you can drop another VOICE into the next PART (5), OR you could even drop another PERFORMANCE into PARTS 5-8.  You need to change the Receive Channel to (1) for each of these added VOICES or PERFORMANCES in order to play them all at once...go into Edit, hit the desired PART to select, and change the Receive Channel at the top of the VOICE window.

You’ll have to be more specific as to where exactly this doesn’t work as represented.

Edit:  Bad_Mister posted while I leisurely typed!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 01:01 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Whew, THANKS GUYS!!!

I’ll try what you say when I get home tonight.

As I said before, it obviously is User error from my end (as it is EVERY time).

From what I can remember, I FIRST went to Job, and THEN followed the detailed instructions given by Bad_Mister:
1) I pressed [F3] COPY
2) I pressed [SF3] PERF

The first place I got stumped (from Bad_Misters instructions AND Page 197 of the Reference Manual) was where it showed on the Display example, the “Current Mix Part” as 1-4.

It explains that this field “Determines the four parts of the current Mixing as destination” as Settings:
1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16.

But on my Display it showed the “Current Mix Part” as “1” (not 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16).

It was at this point that I said “HELP!!!!!!!”.

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Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 01:34 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

PS

Is SONG or PATTERN better for what I’m trying to accomplish?

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Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 01:37 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3056
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
jerrydpi - 03 February 2013 01:34 PM

PS

Is SONG or PATTERN better for what I’m trying to accomplish?

If you are not going to record anything...just using it live...it doesn’t make any difference.

If you are going to record to the sequencer, whichever fits your needs better is the way to go.

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Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 03:01 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Thanks!

And just to make sure that everyone understands what I’m trying to do, when I’m in the SONG mode, does that mean that once my mythical (at this point) (6) part Mixing program is completed and I Name and STORE it, ALL I have to do from that point on is go to SONG, select the correct Name Song (which is the Mixing program I previously STORED) and just start playing the keys?

I DON’T have to hit PLAY do I?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 04:35 PM
cmayhle
Total Posts:  3056
Joined  10-05-2011
status: Guru
jerrydpi - 03 February 2013 03:01 PM

Thanks!

And just to make sure that everyone understands what I’m trying to do, when I’m in the SONG mode, does that mean that once my mythical (at this point) (6) part Mixing program is completed and I Name and STORE it, ALL I have to do from that point on is go to SONG, select the correct Name Song (which is the Mixing program I previously STORED) and just start playing the keys?

Yes.

jerrydpi - 03 February 2013 03:01 PM

I DON’T have to hit PLAY do I?

No, hitting PLAY in a SONG MIXING or PATTERN MIXING would be to listen to what you recorded into the sequencer.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 03, 2013 @ 11:04 PM
jerrydpi
Total Posts:  934
Joined  11-02-2012
status: Guru

Holy crap, Batman! It WORKED!!!

Thanks everyone!

Now that I can do what I wanted, I’ve got (3) questions that popped into my mind when I was constructing a Mixing Program with (6) Parts.

1) Will the Voices I put in each Part retain their original sound?
2) If not, how do I assure that I’m keeping/copying the original sound of the Voice when I’m adding it to my Mixing program?
3) As I’m adding/editing the extra Parts, is there a way to drop a Voice more than (2) octaves?

The reason I ask is because as I’m adding the extra Parts, I’m putting them in the higher range notes of the keyboard, and the pitch of the Voices pitch are sometimes too high.

Thanks again!!!!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 04, 2013 @ 07:28 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

1) Will the Voices I put in each Part retain their original sound?

No. Several things will change - the act of moving a VOICE from VOICE mode to a PART (Performance or SONG/PATTERN Mixing modes) causes changes. The allocation of effects will change, for one. While you can insure that the INSERTION EFFECTS (the Effects that are apart of the VOICE) will be the same, the SYSTEM EFFECTS (that recreate the “room acoustics") are shared by all PARTS in the ensemble via a typical mixer SEND/RETURN scenario. If the VOICE was in a LARGE HALL when in Voice mode, when you move this VOICE (instrument) into the PERFORMANCE or MIXING, it now moves to a new set of room acoustics… that all the instruments share via a Send amount (much like a bunch of musician’s signals coming into a mixer that has 2 auxiliary sends to 2 system effects).

2) If not, how do I assure that I’m keeping/copying the original sound of the Voice when I’m adding it to my Mixing program?

Study the parameters that are important about the VOICE and discover what really makes you like it. Then it is easy to make it work in your ensemble. Now, that is the best way to learn it. Once you know why you like it, you can improve it - but if you don’t know why you like it, you can only wonder about “what changed”. Explore the VOICE!

But, that said, once you recognize that an instrument alone, played alone (as you do when you are in VOICE mode) may need a different amount of reverb than when you place that same instrument in with an ensemble that contains other instruments. Now it may sound like it needs less or perhaps more reverb - depending on the musical situation you place it.

So making it sound “like it did in VOICE mode” is not even a useful… when it comes to the SYSTEM EFFECTS… Think about the System Effects in terms of the entire ensemble of instruments.

The INSERTION EFFECT are what give the Voice its main “personality” in most cases. So when people ask about it sounding the same - these are your main concern.

The “tone” may changes as well. In the VOICE mode, it is possible to store with the VOICE offsets to the actual parameters. Here’s why: when you have 8 oscillators in a VOICE, each with their own individually programmed Filter and Filter envelopes, each with it own Amplitude envelopes, and Pitch envelopes, each with it is own full set of parameters… it could take you a long, long time to make a simple tweak. So the KNOB parameters apply to all 8 Filters, for example, when you move the CUTOFF knob, you are adjusting (offsetting) by adding values or subtracting values from the individually stored filter cutoff setting (times 8). Some people mistake the CUTOFF knob as being the actual filter… it is not; it is a control that applies an OFFSET value to the possible 8 different Filter Cutoff Frequencies within the VOICE you are playing.

If you are playing a PRESET VOICE - most of them do not apply these OFFSETS - in other words, the programmers mostly have set the VOICES exactly in the playable condition (from their point of view). But these KNOB offsets allow a user to call up a PRESET VOICE and say - “you know I like it, but I would offset the Cutoff to +3 and the Resonance to -1” - as a user you can STORE that tweak to a USER location. The OFFSETS would would be stored to the USER VOICE as Cutoff = +3, Resonance = -1;

If you were to move this VOICE to a PART, the OFFSETS do not necessarily apply. If you want to also apply your OFFSETS to the original VOICE this is where the “PARAMETER WITH VOICE” comes in. Parameter with Voice literally means that the offsets you may have applied to an original Preset VOICE will be respected and applied to the Voice when you place it a PART (Perf/Mix).

The ARP is one of those parameters - it is an extra to the Voice - that does not really qualify as an essential item. It is tagged or pinned to the VOICE location. When you move the VOICE to a PART (PERFORMANCE or MIXING) the ARP does not necessarily come along - unless you activate “Parameters with VOICE” - to basically copy those things that are offset or tagged onto the original VOICE.

I should mention that it is possible to COPY the SYSTEM EFFECTS from any one of the VOICES you wish - but realize that the other 15 VOICES will share them via the SEND/RETURN setup.

Volume may appear different to allow room for additional instruments
EQ, the EQ in VOICE mode may be applied by Offsets to the MASTER EQ, when the VOICE is placed in a PART, the EQ is “zeroed out” - same as when you plug into the bands mixer. EQ is subjective and based on the overall sound (expect to EQ your sound in its new environment)

3) As I’m adding/editing the extra Parts, is there a way to drop a Voice more than (2) octaves?

No, not with PART parameters. Musically, you can accomplish this goal, but you will need to create a new instrument that is stored as dropped more than two octaves. Part parameters let you NOTE SHIFT (offset) a stored Voice a maximum of two octaves (+/-24 semitones).

If you need a flute, for example, in a radically different region of the keyboard (more than 2 octaves from its actual pitch) you will need to create a USER VOICE with the Flute tuned to that region (or at least within two octaves of that region).

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