Apols for further post, but I’m no further forward on this issue, and it really needs to be sorted or the mox is going back!!!

I’m looking to control the volume of one part ( strings or pad for example) of a two part layer performance, so that live, one of the control knobs ( AS1 or AS2 ) will control the volume of this part, so it can be faded up and down as required during a live performance. It needs to be a setting that can be stored as part of the performance itself, ie not convoluted edit and button pressing every time you want to use it - simply not practical for a busy live performance.

So far, I have kindly received a steer about setting the part I don’t want to adjust the volume on to not receive control messages, and therfore set up a controller to adjust volume, and only the string part will receive and react to it. Great!, the concept sounds like the answer BUT, how do you do that.?.

I have tried it all ways I can see and simply can’t get it to work, possibly I’m missing something simple, but its driving me nuts and is Key to me using this keyboard live.

If anyone out there can give me simple steps to make this happen I would be grateful. This mox8 sounds great, and in theory is well equipped, but why oh why make it so difficult to work with....

Pulling my hair out!,,

You could program one of your Assign Knobs to function as your Volume control, but I will tell you what most people do: purchase a Yamaha FC7 foot control sweep pedal. Plugged into the Assignable Foot Controller jack it defaults to cc011 (Expression). Each Part of the Performance can be set to respond or ignore changes in expression.

Best Method: FC7 Foot Controller
Press [EDIT]
Press a numbered button [1]-[4] to select the PART you wish to ignore Expression
Press [F5] Rcv Sw (Receive Switch)
Clear the box for Expession
Press [STORE], done

If you don’t yet own an FC7, you can program either the Assign Knobs to function as a volume control.

There are several ways to approach the issue ( in addition to the most common, as I described above):

Programming Method:
For example, at the VOICE level of programming you can prepare a VOICE to respond to the Controllers of your choice. As an example, call up the VOICE PRE 1: 014(A14) “Piano & Strings.
On this VOICE ASSIGN 1 Knob controls the Volume of the 4 Piano Elements
ASSIGN 2 Knob controls the Volume of the 4 String Elements

You can see how this was done:
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON]
Press [F4] CTRL SET (Control Set)
Press [SF2] SET 3/4
Here you can see how the programmer assigned AS1 to control Element Level of Elements 1-4 (Control Set 3)
AS2 is set to control Element Level of Elements 5-8 (Control Set 4)

To use this VOICE:
Press the KNOB Function button to select TONE 3 row
Press [STORE] and target a USER location.

You have now stored the VOICE with Tone 3 row selected. It will always come up this way and Knobs Assign1 and Assign 2 will automatically be accessible for individual VOLUME control.

Now that is what you can do at the VOICE level of programming - when you program a Voice to behave a certain way, it will continue to behave that way when you create a PERFORMANCE. Unfortunately, you did not mention any specific PERFORMANCE.

But the USER Voice banks contain placeholder Voices (repeats from the 8 PRESET banks) you are meant to overwrite these with VOICES edited to your requirements. You can see from the example VOICE above it would be a simple matter to assign control of a complete VOICE to either AS1 or AS2. Then assign your versions of the EDITED Voice in your PERFORMANCES. That is the design concept. It is a programmable synth - the PRESETs are provided as examples, the USER banks are for your customizations of the PRESET data and any new Voice Libraries you acquire.

This does require some wanting to get in and customize (learning the parameters and how to make them work for you is covered in articles here in the SUPPORT area) if you don’t have time or the inclination to edit Voices then we have another method that is simply a matter organizing your data differently for stage work… the Master mode. (And as you’ll see some thought was given to this in the design concept)…

Alternate Method: Address the PERFORMANCE as a SONG/PATTERN Template via MASTER mode. Result: You have a knob for each PART when you recall the Program.

If the thought of programming at the VOICE level, making your own custom versions of the VOICES that you use in PERFORMANCES, does not appeal to you - and you still do not have an FC7 (the easy solution), then you have yet another option.

Use MASTER mode to address your PERFORMANCE data as SONG/PATTERN TEMPLATE. so that you have a KNOB for each PART.
Again you did not mention any specific PERFORMANCE, but lets use “Lake Side” USR1:079 as an example.

Press [SONG] and select a blank SONG location
Press [MIXING]
You can COPY the “Lake Side” Performance to this MIXING as a TEMPLATE (which assigns each PART to its own MIDI channel). By doing so we will be able to have a separate Knob for each PART’s Volume, here’s how:
Press [F4] TEMPLATE
Press [SF2] PERFORM
Select “USR 1:079” Lake Side
Target PARTs “1-4”
Press [ENTER] to execute.

This will place the Piano in PART 1/Ch1, and place the Pad in PART 2/Ch2
You can Name (recommended) and the store your Song setup.
Press [STORE] to STORE your MIXING setup Make note of the SONG number.

Press [MASTER]
Press [F2] MEMORY
Set it to MODE = SONG
Set the number to your SONG’s number
Press [F3] ZONE SW
Set the ZONE Switch = ON
The ZONE KNOB Assign will be set to ON (giving us a KNOB Volume for each PART).

Press [EDIT]
Press numbered button [1] to edit ZONE 1
Press [F1] TRANS
Set ZONE 1 to transmit to the INT TG = ON ("Piano" CH1)
Set ZONE 2 to transmit to the INT TG = ON ( “Pad” CH2)

You have now created a MASTER program to address your PERFORMANCE data so that you have a KNOB for the VOLUME of each. You can see this assignment by pressing [F5] KNOBS

Press [STORE]

Hope that gives you some idea of not only how you can accomplish your goal, but that the MOX is a very deep instrument. I recommedn the FC7, but working through MASTER mode to control complex setups is a dream. It is worth getting to know the various modes.
VOICE mode - where all fundamental programming takes place
PERFORMANCE mode - where you combine up to four Voices in the mode’s 4 PARTS
SONG/PATTERN mode - where you combine up to 16 Voices for Sequencer or for Live access, in the mode’s 16 PARTS (MIDI receive channels can be set per PART).
MASTER mode - where you can organize your programs into a single Bank, offers control of both internal and external devices via MIDI. Only mode that allows you transmit on multiple MIDI channels simultaneously.

By combining the SONG mode’s ability to receive on multiple MIDI channels, and the MASTER mode’s ability to transmit via the keyboard on as many as four MIDI channels, simultaneously, we have created a situation where we have the individual controls per PART that you desire. Hope that makes sense, even though you are not that familiar with the modes quite yet.

What about Yamaha MFC10 MIDI Controller Pedal? Can MFC10 do that in master mode without release the hands of the keyboard?

Is the following article applicable to the MOX?
Using your Motif ES with the MFC10 (MIDI Foot Controller)

...
PEDALING POSSIBILITIES:
Setting up a 4-Zone / 4 Volume pedal situation
...

Cheers bad mister, I will work through that and hopefully will now be sorted
Ta

Bad mister - first thanks again for comprehensive response.
I have tried all the methods you outlined, and the setting up a performance as a song seems to work, although did have some issues initially.this has its issues though as there are only 64 song locations, and I am also going to be using a set of midi files via the mox 8, this may become an issue of space.

The fc7 pedal method is just not practical (borrowed one to try), for a live player with 2 damper and a foot switch pedal already in the rig, using another pedal, also whilst using a damper pedal on the piano part is, for me, impossible. Also issues of controllability of the layer level during a live stage situation, when its often difficult to actually hear accurately the level of any given sound (sit next to live drummer).

QUESTION you outline in your previous response that working at the voice level, and setting the voice elements to respond to controllers, in this case level, is a way to go. I also did this, and edited a piano sound with all elements to respond to AS1 for level, and a separate string voice, but to respond similarly but to AS2. So far so good, works perfectly well in the individual voices. BUT, when you then use these two voices in a performance, this control does not work? I was wanting to simply have a 2 part performance and be using AS1-2 to control the levels of each voice, as per programmed into the individual voices, but it does not work. I suspect there is some clash between the controller or rc switch set ups in the voice/ performance set up?.
Can you advise what I need to do to ensure that the control elements as set up in the individual voices DO follow over into the performance? This would be a perfect way to gain control over the separate layers ( albeit it limited to 2 but that’s fine for my purposes). Even if there is a way to gain control over one layer, thats also fine, as piano sound is normally fixed anyway, it’s the strings n pads I need to move up and down at different parts of songs.

Thanks

First, there are 64 SONG MIXING locations and 64 PATTERN MIXING locations - from the standpoint of setups that is 128 Total. Plus they load from USB in seconds. You can prepare your MIDI Files to work with your MOX so that you can access them directly from USB drive (no need to always load them into the internal sequencer). Anyway, that option is available.

I disagree many (many) keyboard players work many more pedals than you outline - it is a matter of focus and need (ever kick pedals on a B3? lol) however, if the FC7 does not work for you, it does not work for you, this is okay. You can create a different solution.

But not hearing yourself, I can have no sympathy for you there. :-) You should fix that and sitting next to the drummer is not doing your ears any good, particularly if you cannot hear yourself. You should invest in a personal set of monitors if you cannot hear yourself. I know this is easy enough for me to say this, but I say this as a recommendation (I’m sure you would if you could, I’m just voting on the side of you SHOULD) - playing live on stage and not enjoying it is just not what you want to be doing. Make it so that above all, you can hear yourself. It brings the fun back to playing.

When you assign the control over a parameter to a KNOB (as you’ve done in VOICE mode) and then you place that VOICE in a PERFORMANCE, how the knobs work is as follows:

When you are in a PERFORMANCE use the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] feature to manage and gain control over your 4 PARTS.
_ Buttons [1]-[4] are marked PART SELECT: you press one of these so select which PART will be affected by the KNOBS.
_ Buttons [5]-[8] are marked ARP ON/OFF: you can activate and deactivate any assigned ARPs for Parts 1-4.
_ Buttons [9]-[12] are marked PART MUTE: you can mute or unmute any of the four Parts 1-4
_ Buttons [13]-[16] are marke ARP HOLD ON/OFF: this toggles the hold mode for the 4 arpeggiators, 1-4.

When you press [PART SELECT 1] your knobs will affect PART 1
When you press [PART SELECT 2] your knobs will affect PART 2

When you select [COMMON] all but the ASSIGNABLE KNOBS will affect all PARTS together. For example, turning the CUTOFF knob when [COMMON] is selected will Open/Close the Filter on all PARTS together. The Knobs are prevented from doing a “common” function for the Assignable Knobs to prevent chaos - as what they control is individually programmableper Voice. You must select the PART [1]-[4] in order for the AS1/AS2 specifically assigned parameter to work. Make sense?

Since you are not afraid of programming - you can let your imagination run. On many sounds the MW is not doing anything… for example on a Piano + Pad combination, why not assign the VOLUME of the PAD VOICE so you can fade it out when you raise the wheel… or set it so that the PAD VOICE is absent when you first recall the PERFORMANCE and you fade it in by raising the MW.

Assign the VOLUME of the PAD VOICE so you can fade it out when you raise the wheel:
Setup a CONTROL SET
SOURCE = MW
DEST = VOLUME
DEPTH = -32

The PAD VOICE is absent when you first recall the PERFORMANCE and you fade it in by raising the MW:
Setup a CONTROL SET
SOURCE = MW
DEST = VOLUME
DEPTH = +32

Then set the VOICE OUTPUT = 0
Press [COMMON]
Press [F2] OUTPUT
Set VOICE OUTPUT Volume = 0

Make sure the MW has no affect on your piano Voice. This can be done with the RECEIVE SWITCH in the PERFORMANCE.

OK,
I have programmed voices I require to respond to volume control using MW, and then used these in the performances. This generally works fine, and use of the MW is a good compromise ( although some sliders or dedicated part knobs would still be better).
BUT, there is an issue which seems to be specific to certain voices that I am controlling using this setup- the curve or sensitivity of the volume increase is very short, ie the entire volume range fron zero to top is contained within about the first 10% of the movement of the MW, and as such is very ragged as it comes in (as opposed to a smooth transition), and is also very difficult to set with any accuracy as the movement is so small and sensitive. I am assuming this is a voice specific parameter of some sort that needs adjusting as it does not apply to all - preset ‘ romantic’ string behaves like this, whereas preset ‘ warm backing pad’ does not, as it has a smooth volume transition over the range of the MW movement ( obviously I have edited the control set on these presets and saved down as users). Can you advise how to get any sound on a smooth transition on the volume across the movement of the MW?

Your point on song/ mix memory space, agree, there should be enough. My preferance would be to use the performance as song solution only when I need control of volumes of more than two parts live, which will be rare.

On not hearing, completely agree, and I do have monitoring, however being a function type band we are often crammed together in a corner, and onstage sound is often very difficult to do anything with, and between live drummer and egotistical guitar players, its easy for a ‘ volume race escalation’ to start, so I have a pretty good level of back line and monitor ( also do backing vocals), and I mitigate the overall volume by using custom made attenuated earplugs. These work a treat and effectively just lower overall volume levels to non hearing damaging. However they are not perfect, and certain frequencies do drop away, and the overall noise levels leads to difficulty during some songs hearing subtle differences in levels between a piano and a pad fr example. To come to point, I often rely on visually seeing the level of the pad on the display when I tweak, knowing in advance that level will sound ok out front- the joys of being in a working band as I’m sure many on here will recognise!!

If you can advise on the above volume transition query on the MW,I think I have it cracked to get this mox8 on stage and running.

At least until I look to use it for my midi files, and I’m sure I will be back with lots of questions.....

Thanks

Can you advise how to get any sound on a smooth transition on the volume across the movement

Yes. The distance that you have to move a controller to get maximum resolution is determined by the DEPTH parameter setting.

A small positive value would mean that moving the control a small distance will do the job.
A larger positive value would mean you need to move the controller farther to get the same result (less coarse). At a Depth +32 you have the maximum response (linear). Values greater than +33 thru +63 will weight the response toward the end of the controller’s throw (you will not notice a change until the controller is moved a greater distance).

Thanks bad mister, that works, so issue sorted. As a pointer for anyone else following this, as wee tip, the overall volume that your part controlled on the MW ( or any controller) level it can reach overall volume wise ( output) is set within the performance, ie if you set the string controlled by the MW to 100, this s the volume it will reach max when you push the MW all the way to the top. Sounds obvious but easy to miss, and also remember set the output on the edited patch to zero.

All good so far, it’s starting to make sense, and il continue to delve in as I go, seems to be a lot that can be done with this board.

No doubt be in touch again soon.

First live gig with mox8 on Sunday....