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squidfood
Total Posts: 2
Joined 10-14-2012 status: Newcomer |
I have an FC7 attached to the MOX6. I’ve confirmed the FC7 works correctly in the default assignment; when set to CC11 (Expression), it controls the volume smoothly. I’ve also confirmed that it outputs MIDI values 0-127 by plugging the FC7 into a MIDI monitor. But when I try to assign the FC7 to another CC by using Util -> CTL ASN -> FC1 (for example, to Pan, or Cutoff) it does the following: 1. The hand knob controlling Pan (or Cutoff) locks, so it no longer changes the (common) parameter. 2. However, the FC7 has no effect on the parameter, either. Changing the foot pedal doesn’t change the value at all. So the value freezes until I reassign the FC to something else. What am I missing? |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
Welcome to the forums! Ah, controllers… You are assigning the Controller to a parameter (destination) and another device is already controlling that parameter. This can be a bit confusing at first. There are going to be two different behaviors that you will discover if you assign any controller, say the FOOT CONTROLLER, to a parameter that has a dedicated controller already affixed to the parameter. Here is how the design engineers decided to make this work: There are a few instances where it is allowed, but mostly not.
FIRST BEHAVIOR: Both controllers work
For these to CONTROL CHANGE messages: It is like having two light switches that independently control the lights in a room. If you set the FC7 pedal to send cc001, for example, - which is already sent by the MOD WHEEL or cc007 which is already assigned to knob labeled VOLUME. When you recall a program the MW defaults to sending cc001 = 0 minimum, while the FOOT CONTROLLER sends cc001 = 127 - you have an argument brewing. The first one you move will cause the other’s position to look wrong - as in these assignments both controllers work. The last one engaged will determine the value. At some point one of the light switches will look as if the lights should be ON (max) and they will not be… the last one engaged rules. Moved at the same time would cause erratic behavior. This first behavior is fixed by the engineers so you can duplicate these devices. More than one physical controller can be assigned. The assignment of the MW to a FC, for example, is useful (actually).
SECOND BEHAVIOR: conflict where neither controller works:
Since you already have a control KNOB for these parameters, if was decided you don’t need to assign the Foot Controller to these parameters which are global OFFSETS. You also have cc071 RESONANCE, ATTACK cc073, RELEASE cc072, etc. these address the 8 Elements by offsetting them all together. In other words, moving the CUTOFF KNOB will adjust all 8 FILTERS assigned to a VOICE by adding or subtracting values to their stored cutoff frequency. If no Filter is assigned to a particular ELEMENT, the cc074 will do nothing to that particular Element. If you move the ATTACK KNOB it will adjust by OFFSET (adding or subtracting) values of each of the 8 Elements within the Voice. This second behavior is fixed by the engineers so you can’t duplicate these devices. It was decided that if you would like a Foot Controller (or any second physical controller) to influence PAN, or CUTOFF, or RESONANCE, or PORTAMENTO TIME, or ATTACK, or DECAY, or RELEASE, etc., of your VOICE, you should not do it with global MIDI cc#, INSTEAD each VOICE has the ability to PAN, do Cutoff, Resonance, Portamento Time, Attack, Decay, Release, etc., without using the standard MIDI CONTROL CHANGE. Simply select that parameter as the DESTINATION within a VOICE’s CONTROL SET… in most instances you can select control on a per Element basis (all except “Portamento Time” which applies to all Elements in common). These same Parameters that MIDI has determined are useful, are actually fully programmable parameters within each MOX VOICE (and you have most of them TIMES a factor of 8, as each of the 8 Elements is a separate complete synth engine and has many of these parameters controllable individually).
What you can do:
For example, if you want to PAN a VOICE (or any of those listed above) with your Foot Controller, here is the recommended technique:
Go to your VOICE
You will find 101 parameters destinations within each VOICE. Using this method you are using cc004 (a programmable device for Foot pedals) to control directly parameters within the VOICE… rather than duplicating a control device that already exists. Any time you want to control Pan, Cutoff, Resonance, Portamento Time, Attack, Decay, Release, or any of the others that already have a KNOB or other physical controller assigned The ASSIGN 1 and ASSIGN 2 knobs send cc016 and cc017, respectively, and can be assigned to any of the 101 Destination parameters as well. If you set your Foot Controller 1 to send cc016 or 017 it will additionally control the destination parameter assigned within the VOICE - but the situation will be like having those two light switches to control the lights in a room, at some point the controller’s physical position will belie the status. That is: at some point even though the pedal is toe-down, if you last moved the knob counterclockwise, the value may actually be minimum.
Hope that helps.
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squidfood
Total Posts: 2
Joined 10-14-2012 status: Newcomer |
Thank you for your in-depth response! I don’t think I fully appreciated that the knobs were determining offsets rather than raw CC values, and that a FC value wouldn’t sync well with offsets. Given that the cutoff knob (for example) controls multiple Elements at once, of course it makes sense to design it this way. Pan was a bad example to use - my goal was to assign the FC to cutoff and/or resonance so that I could use it while playing live without taking either hand of the keys (I also find control pedals to be more “expressive” than knobs in general). It sounds like it’s possible, but will just have to be set up voice-by-voice - not a problem. I will need to follow your instructions a few times to get it down, but this sounds like it will do the trick… thanks again! |
nauform
Total Posts: 122
Joined 06-16-2011 status: Pro |
Thank you BM for the info but what about FEG DEPTH? I cannot find the way for recording that knob into the sequencer. Any idea? The same CONTROL SET procedure having a dedicated Knob? |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
First, FEG DEPTH is a parameter that you do not hear directly, only how much it applies its influence. In other words, with Filter Envelope Generator Depth it will control the range over which the Cutoff Frequency of the Filter changes. The farther the number is from 0 (plus or minus) the larger the range of movement of the Cutoff Frequency. The FEG DEPTH parameter does not send any Control Change message to be recorded… so it is not unusual for you to not be able to record it. The way this parameter is to be used is as follows: Say you have a synth sound where there is a programmed filter sweep (a programmed filter sweep is one where the Voice has a Filter Envelope programmed so that the Cutoff Frequency is in motion as you hold the keys down). The FEG DEPTH parameter acts as an OFFSET for the 8 potential Filter Envelope Generators - allowing you to increase the amount of movement that the filter envelope makes or decrease that movement.
Call up the VOICE: “Trance MW” ~ PRESET 5: 123(H11)
But lets see what the programmed FEG is doing. Return the MW to minimum. Turn the KNOB for FEG DEPTH to +10. Hit and hold a chord for 10 seconds. Listen to how the filter cutoff is now in motion. Increase the FEG DEPTH Knob to +20. Hit and hold another chord. Listen to how the filter cutoff now moves a greater distance. Increase the FEG DEPTH Knob to +30. Hit and hold another chord. List to how the filter cutoff now moves a greater distance and so on.
0 is no movement. 0 Depth, means the envelope is not applied at all.
So as you can see, the Depth parameter on its own does not do anything, it controls how much or how deeply the envelope is applied. The FEG in this case has a large spike opening the filter right after the attack then it closes the filter back down. How much of this envelope is applied is called the FEG DEPTH. It is a parameter you kind of decide on, based on what you want for your filter movement to be and you lock that in. Say you like the setting at +48 - because it causes the exact filter movement you require for your particular composition. You would go to the parameter and store it with this FEG DEPTH Offset. This is “quick” offset programming (as you can imagine on voices with 8 Elements it could take some time to edit all 8 Filter Envelopes individually).
From the main VOICE screen:
If you are using the VOICE in a PART (Part of a PERFORMANCE, or a MIXING)
Press [EDIT]
Now that said, the MOX is a synthesizer, and say you want to alter the FEG DEPTH so that you can get different FILTER SWEEP Depths at different sections of your composition. FEG DEPTH can be assigned to any of your physical controllers or device numbers. Then moving that controller or inputting a value for the assigned control number, will adjust the parameter so that the Filter Cutoff movement can be controlled as you require (either real time or by automating it with the sequencer). If you want to manipulate it yourself, assign FEG DEPTH to an assignable physical controller. AS1 or AS2 or a Foot Controller, or your MW etc.
If you want to manipulate it via the sequencer assign the FEG DEPTH to any available control number; for example cc002 (Breath Control)… then simply place a Breath Controller event on the track with a value to set the FEG DEPTH…
Final note:
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nauform
Total Posts: 122
Joined 06-16-2011 status: Pro |
First, thank you BM for your detailed answer.
Yes, I know that technique. I don’t know if you remember this thread:
In fact, I’m using it to create Control Arpeggiators based in CCs. MOX arps are a powerful tool. Arps of other manufacturers are toys as compared with MOX arps :-) But some parameters of the MOX synth engine are not available in CONTROL SET screen and I would like your opinion about create control arps using some SysEx events. Thanks and sorry if this thread has became an off topic. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
FEG DEPTH is certainly one of the 101 Destinations. My opinion about using System Exclusive data in an arpeggio, I don’t have one, really. Never needed it, never tried it ... You’ll have to let us know how or if that works… Never jumped to Earth from the stratosphere like that guy yesterday, never wanted to… You don’t need it for FEG DEPTH that is for sure. |
nauform
Total Posts: 122
Joined 06-16-2011 status: Pro |
Yes, I know it. The number of destinations is extraordinary :-) That said, I was talking about parameters non included as destinations.
OK, I will do it. I always prefer CC to SysEx but I could need SysEx sometime.
Wow! I feared for his life when his body began to turn out of control :-O Regards |