AAAAAGHHHH, I JUST SPENT HOURS LOADING EDITED SOUNDS INTO USR1, SAVED THEM, SWITCHED ON/OFF/ON THE MOX TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE THERE BUT THEN I WENT TO LOAD UP MY VINTAGE KEYS DOWNLOAD AND LOST ALL THE USR1---IT WENT BACK TO THE DEFAULT SOUNDS (USR3 SUCCESSFULLY HAD MY VINTAGE KEYS BANK). ..... HELP GUYS WHAT DID I DO WRONG. KEEP IT SIMPLE.  REGARDS DAVE

Like anything new you have to pay close attention to the details. Sort of like not noticing your CAP LOCK is on when posting.
:-) Let’s see if we can get you straightened out… we do not think you have necessarily lost any work…

AAAAAGHHHH, I JUST SPENT HOURS LOADING EDITED SOUNDS INTO USR1, SAVED THEM,

The details that are important are the File TYPE you made when you SAVED and the File TYPE you selected to LOAD when you loaded. And until you are clear on the significance of the different TYPES, you will have issues. But the good news is, once you are clear on what the file extensions mean you never have the issue again.

If you SAVED your data (as you state) hopefully you saved the data in an ALL VOICE or ALL data file format - this will give you a file with the extension .X4V or .X4A. These File TYPES will contain all your USER VOICES - so no matter what, you still have all of your work (so relax). We assume your data is in one of these two file Types. This is GOOD NEWS!

When LOADING data from an ALL VOICE (.X4V) or ALL data (.X4A) file, you can select to load the entire thing or just one Voice or just 1 bank of 128 Voices (or the bank of 32 User Drum Kits Voices).

So if, for example say you created an ALL data file (extension = .X4A):

Now you want to load data from that file…
You press [FILE] and set the TYPE = ALL
When you select (highlight) the file .X4A name and press EXECUTE - it will literally load all of the USER Voices in the file into your USER banks: Overwriting all internal USER locations. ALL means ALL. If this is not what you want to do, (and it probably was NOT) then see below…

If you press [FILE] and set the TYPE = VOICE
When you select (highlight) the File .X4A name, and press [ENTER], it will “open” the file and show you several Lists of Voices, you can access each List by pressing the [USER 1], [USER 2], [USER 3] or [DR USER] buttons.
Select the individual VOICE you want to load…
Move the cursor and set the destination to which you want to load it. (loading VOICE will overwrite only one Voice).

If you press FILE and set the TYPE = 1 BANK VOICE
When you select (highlight) the File (.X4A) name, and press [ENTER] it will open and reveal a Folder for each of the USER Banks.
Select the folder you wish to load USER 1, USER 2 or USER 3 or DR USER.
Move the cursor and set the target (internal destination) bank for the data you wish to load.

So our question for you is: when you went to load your Vintage Keys file - what File TYPE did you select? And where did you TARGET internally to LOAD that data?

----------------------
*** When loading your VINTAGE KEYS, you wanted to set the TYPE = 1 BANK VOICE, then you wanted to direct FOLDER #3 “USER 3” to your internal USER 3, instead of what you did, which was to load ALL the data in the Vintage Keys file. After all, the Vintage Keys ALL data file did not contain your hard work on the USER 1 bank… instead it had just the original voices that occupied USER 1 and USER 2 - the Voices that were in the MOX when the author of “Vintage Keys” made the FILE. Make sense? you did load it as “ALL” data.***
----------------------

“ALL” means you are overwriting ALL of the data in the USER banks with the data in the FILE. You don’t get to pick a specific TARGET… the target is all user locations.
“VOICE” means you are selecting a single Voice from within the file data and are going to overwrite a single Voice location in your internal MOX. You must TARGET an internal location.
“1 BANK VOICE” means you are selecting a bank of 128 Normal (or the bank of 32 Drum Kits) and are going to overwrite just one bank of 128 Normal or the bank of 32 USER Drum Kits. Again you must TARGET a bank location.

If when you loaded data, you did not target an internal location - it means you probably overwrote ALL data when you loaded. So now that you know you can selectively pick what you load, and where it goes, you will not have to make that mistake again.

And since you did SAVE your work, you will not have to ARRRRRGGGHHH! do it all over again. Simply load your USER BANK (the one you worked on) to “USER 1”. Now you (should) know how. :-)

Hope that helps.

Hi Bad_Mister,
thank you for the comprehensive reply (as always).
apologies for shouting (caps on).
Something i would like to clarify. I purchased/downloaded the vintage keys off the keyfax shop. I followed the instructions to the letter to put them on to the MOX8. it clearly states select ALL.  Why would it state to do this if it is going to affect the rest of the keyboard.
I am now waiting to get my wrists slapped. If i have read the keyfax instruction wrong i will eat my paper hat.

What I didn’t do was save any settings to by USB pen i had just saved on the mox8. i shall follow your instructions , to save my user settings to USB
I will keep you posted on how i get on.

kind regards
David

Hi Bad-Mister,
just to prove a point, here are the instructions given with the vintage keys download. This is nowhere near the explanation that you gave. Maybe a word in their shell like.  NB Note instruction number 7. 

1. Insert your USB device into your computer’s available USB slot. It’s icon
should appear on your desktop.
2. Navigate to the “VINTAGE KEYS MO X” folder and double-click on it to
open it.
3. Navigate to the folder called “Vintage Keys MO X ALL File” and doubleclick
to open it.
4. Copy the file called “VKEYS.X4A” to your USB device’s icon (by either
dragging the file directly to the icon, or going to your file menu and
choosing “Copy” and “To” and selecting the USB device as your
destination).
5. When the file has copied completely to your USB device, properly eject
the USB device and insert it in the slot labeled “TO DEVICE” on the rear
panel of your MO X. You will see a screen message that says “USB
Device Connecting..”
6. Press the FILE button on the front panel of the MO X. Press the F3 button
(Load).
7. In the field next to the word “Type” on the screen, set it to “All”.
8. Press the right cursor button once to go to the right side of the screen,
then press the down cursor button once to select and highlight the
name “VKEYS .X4A”
9. Press the SF1 (Exec) button. The Vintage Keys MO X library will begin
loading. When the load process is complete, you will be returned to the
FILE screen.
10. Press the VOICE button, then press the BANK SELECT INC or DEC
buttons until you see “USR 3” next to the word VOICE at the top upper left
of your screen.
11. Press the A button and the 1 button to select A1 (the first voice, which is
Suitcase 1965

kind regards
David

Please understand me, I am not doubting what the instructions say, I am not doubting that you followed them faithfully. And I am not at all interested in having you eat any hats. I am telling you how the MOX works. Those instructions will allow you to load the VINTAGE KEYS library… and to be sure that is just what happened. And the instructions accomplish their goal.

However, it is your MOX and you need to know about how it works so that you do not overwrite any of the data that is important to you. I’m sure if you read the rest of the instructions that came with the Vintage Keys you will receive amble warning about the consequences of loading the data. The usually appear just ahead of the instructions you faithfully followed and typed above.

I don’t have that particular Instruction set, but I’ve seen most of DCP Motif Libraries and they all include a warning (usually in BIG RED LETTERS, about backing up your data first and WHY!!!!

Next point. Learn these two terms - as they will help you avoid losing your work in the future.

You STORE data to the internal MOX Flash ROM.
You SAVE data to a file on your USB Stick.

STORE writes data to a USER location inside the MOX. And the word is used consistently throughout your MOX synthesizer.

SAVE and LOAD are functions of the [FILE] system - writing and retreiving data from a drive. And here is the rule:
It is the STORED data that gets SAVED to a File.

Had you only SAVED like you said you did, you would not have lost your data, Sorry.

Hi bad_mister, you are right, i stored my voices on the MOX and didnt save to an USB. This has been a great lesson for me and another learning curve on how the MOX works. Thanks very much for helping me through this one. No one has been harmed during this exercise as the voices i put into user1, were just sounds taken from the preset banks, and they are still there.
Once again thankyou
kind regards
David.

For any other users out there that have not been following this thread carefully:

The reason most Libraries instruct you to LOAD with the ALL FILE method is because it is the simplest and easiest way for a novice user to get the VOICES and PERFORMANCES into the machine (Bad_Mister explained some alternate...and usually better...ways to accomplish this process).

However, this method WILL OVER-WRITE your other USER DATA (As Bad_Mister has explained), and that is why you will ALWAYS (I’ll stand by this until someone can disprove it) find a warning to SAVE your USER DATA to USB before loading posted prominently in the instructions to these libraries...to allow you to re-load USER work you have saved later on.

Ignoring this warning will be perilous to your UN-SAVED VOICES and PERFORMANCES!

Thanks cmayhle for those additional comments.
Do you not think , however, that keyfax should have given a better description to us rookies of how to download the voices without affecting the other user banks.(i was aware that the voice bank would load to user3)_Who would want to “ OVER-WRITE your other USER DATA”
Even if i did save my voices etc, to a flash prior to putting on the vintage keys bank, i would have still done the same mistake of selecting ALL as per the instruction. After Bad_mister’s excellent tutorial i now know what to do, it was just unfortunate i had to ask the forum for a solution to my problem. 
10 out of ten for the forum.
kind regards
David

davfox1@gmail.com - 04 September 2012 01:26 AM

Thanks cmayhle for those additional comments.
Do you not think , however, that keyfax should have given a better description to us rookies of how to download the voices without affecting the other user banks.(i was aware that the voice bank would load to user3)_Who would want to “ OVER-WRITE your other USER DATA”
Even if i did save my voices etc, to a flash prior to putting on the vintage keys bank, i would have still done the same mistake of selecting ALL as per the instruction. After Bad_mister’s excellent tutorial i now know what to do, it was just unfortunate i had to ask the forum for a solution to my problem. 
10 out of ten for the forum.
kind regards
David

Keyfax is not the creator of Vintage Keys or the manual that comes with it. I am (I’m DCP Productions).

As others have stated, every DCP library comes with a manual that includes very specific warnings (in red letters) to back up any data you want to save BEFORE you load the library.

Why do I recommend the load type be set to “All”? Because one of the Vintage Keys voices (Pink Floyd 1) includes a user arpeggio that has to be loaded in order for that voice to work. “All” means exactly that - it loads ALL the data, including any arpeggio data, at once. Otherwise, I’d have to split the Vintage Keys download into two different files - an AllVoice file, and a separate Arps file. This would create way more confusion for novices (like yourself) who would have to load the AllVoice file, then the Arp file, then assign the user arp to the right voice...I think you can see, or should be able to see, how many more people would be posting complaints because they don’t understand the MO X architecture yet. And I can pretty much guarantee you that if I did make Vintage Keys a dual file download, with separate voice and arp files, I’d get complaints from people asking why I had to make it so complicated, why didn’t I just make it one file that loads everything.

For every DCP library, I write the manual assuming that the person reading it is a complete beginner, and this is his/her first voice library purchase. Yes, there are other methods available to load files (All, AllVoice, 1 bank voice, voice, Performance) but rather than devote three extra pages of instructions for loading all these file types, which the end user may or may not comprehend, I just include the simplest method, which is loading as an ALL type file.

Really, the loading instructions in each manual are pretty much “insert this, press this, press that”. If you follow them exactly, you will have no problem loading any DCP library - provided you read EVERYTHING the manual states, including any warnings.

Hi Davepolich,
thankyou for your input. I understand your comments. 

I Really appreciate all the time and input given to my lack of knowledge of the MOX8. i am now wiser for it.
regards
David