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Viewing topic "Is initial touch / after touch sent by midi?"

     
Posted on: August 31, 2012 @ 04:14 AM
raymonster
Total Posts:  8
Joined  08-31-2012
status: Newcomer

Hello.  I’m new to this forum.  However, I want to use a Yamaha HS-8 (which has initial touch & after touch for both upper, lower & pedals) with an MOX connected via midi so that I can play the MOX’s sounds using all the organ.

However the whole reason I want to get the HS-8 is because it has the initial touch & after touch abilities.  When I play on the organ, will initial touch & after touch come out in the MOX’s voices?  I don’t know enough about initial touch & after touch & midi.

If anyone can help please?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: August 31, 2012 @ 05:35 AM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Welcome to the forums!

However the whole reason I want to get the HS-8 is because it has the initial touch & after touch abilities.  When I play on the organ, will initial touch & after touch come out in the MOX’s voices?  I don’t know enough about initial touch & after touch & midi.

When you play the organ will the initial touch and after touch cause a response in the MOX? If that is what you are asking the answer is, yes. The MOX responds to both “initial touch” and “after touch”.

Initital touch is simply the NOTE-ON VELOCITY - this is used in synthesizers when doing instrument emulation… specifically for when the instrument responds dynamically to an increase in physical effort. Unlike the organ which responds dynamically only when a pedal is advanced, many (most) musical instruments respond to an increase in the human physical activity that triggers or causes the instrument to make sound (vibration) by increasing not only in volume output, but also increase in harmonic content. And some even change in pitch behavior…

In other words, the harder you strike a piano key the louder the sound output; the more air you move in a saxophone the louder the sound output; the more vigorously you move the bow across the string the louder the violin, etc. Also the harder you strike a piano key the richer it beomes in harmonics, the more air you put through that sax, the richer it becomes in harmonics, and the more pressure/speed you apply to that bow the richer the tone of that violin string, and so on...So the keybed (specifically how fast a key is depressed) becomes a means to emulate that increase in physical effort that is used in so many acoustic instruments

The organ itself, as an instrument, is totally dependant on pre-set stops and/or the swell pedal for how loud it is - there is no response to physical effort on the keyboard. Biggest difference in the piano and the organ keybeds. But we are talking the traditional organ. Your HS-8 sends this initial touch in the form of a MIDI velocity value 1-127. This is because I’m sure it does instrument emulations (other than just organ sounds). A velocity of 0 will turn sound off. Velocity influences Amplitude (loudness) in most cases in a synthesizer but can be assigned to Pitch and/or Tone (Filter), as well.

Aftertouch is a dedicated MIDI command message that can be sent by the keyboard after the initial touch sends a velocity value. This “after touch” allows the keyboardist to continue to control a sound (again useful in synthesizer instrument emulation) with downward pressure on the keyboard.  A sensor located under the keys can interpret your physical pressure on the key with, again, an additional set of values 1-127.

Exactly what this is assigned to is going to be a programmable function. It can be assigned to volume, pitch, tone, etc. So you can use this after touch in a similar way you use the swell pedal (for example) but in this case, say you are playing and wish to fade in some strings - additional pressure on the keys can be assigned to swell the string orchestra sound behind your HS-8 sound.

If assigned to pitch modulation, as another example, you can use the downward pressure on the keys to control vibrato.
If assigned to amplitude modulation, you can use it to control tremolo.
If you assign it to filter modulation, you can use it to control Wah-Wah.

The thing is with a SYNTH, you decide what you want to control…

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: September 01, 2012 @ 10:24 AM
raymonster
Total Posts:  8
Joined  08-31-2012
status: Newcomer

Thank you for the depth in which you explained that.

The owner’s manual for the HS8 confirms it both transmits & receives aftertouch midi signals.

However, the MOX manual does not even mention aftertouch.  This makes me concerned that the tone generator can’t handle these signals?  I’m guessing it also means aftertouch cannot be configured in any way on the keyboard (e.g. to be assigned an effect for an incoming aftertouch midi message).

The Motif XS manual, on the other hand, under the section “MIDI messages transmitted/recognized by this synthesizer”, has sub-sections for Channel Aftertouch (CAT), and another for Polyphonic Aftertouch (PAT).  But what I don’t understand fully is why under the Polyphonic Aftertouch sub-section, it reads:

The Polyphonic Aftertouch cannot be handled by the tone
generator block although this event can be recorded to a
Song/Pattern track.

Does this mean the Motif XS will only handle incoming polyphonic aftertouch midi signals if it is in Song/Pattern mode?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: September 01, 2012 @ 12:26 PM
Bad_Mister
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Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
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However, the MOX manual does not even mention aftertouch.  This makes me concerned that the tone generator can’t handle these signals?  I’m guessing it also means aftertouch cannot be configured in any way on the keyboard (e.g. to be assigned an effect for an incoming aftertouch midi message).

No, I think I took the time to explain this - please read it again - of course it can be configured (how else could you use it?). You are basing your concern on your ability to find it in the MOX manual? Really? I found it in the manual and it confirms what I took the time to write out for you… (See the DATA LIST booklet).
Besides I own one and have controlled the MOX and the Motif XS and the Motif XF externally with both initial and after touch. If you don’t trust my answer. that is okay too, I guess :(

The Polyphonic Aftertouch cannot be handled by the tone
generator block although this event can be recorded to a
Song/Pattern track.

Does this mean the Motif XS will only handle incoming polyphonic aftertouch midi signals if it is in Song/Pattern mode?

No, that is not what it means. It means the Motif XS Tone Generator does not respond to Polyphonic Aftertouch. The Motif XS Sequencer can record and playback Polyphonic aftertouch messages (for external devices that send and can respond to those messages) the XS itself does not.

Hope that helps.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: January 21, 2020 @ 03:36 PM
Kahnn
Total Posts:  52
Joined  05-28-2011
status: Experienced
Bad_Mister - 01 September 2012 12:26 PM

No, that is not what it means. It means the Motif XS Tone Generator does not respond to Polyphonic Aftertouch.

Hello Bad Mister,
In another post, you’ve told me that it was possible to connect a CME Xkey both via USB and MIDI, so the XKey can power up from the USB port and send MIDI signals from the MIDI port. I’ve done that connection, and it works just as you’ve told. Thank you for that!

Now, the problem is that the XKey can send poylphonic AT, but my Motif XS7 cannot read those signals. So, since the XS engine won’t respond to poly-AT, the Xkey’s signals won’t work, is that it? Sorry to be a bit pushy, but I find it hard to accept that XS voices cannot be used when polt-AT signals are sent from an external MIDI device.

If so, is there a way that I can have my XS receive the poly-AT messages coming from the XKey as channel/mono-AT? (I’ve checked XKey, and afaik there is no way to change the poly-AT function to mono-AT.)

Thanks in advance.

  [ Ignore ]  


 
     


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