I am purchasing a Mtif XS off of ebay and want to be aware of any issues I may run into. And don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Yamaha and the Motif keyboard. Just want to realistically get an idea of what I am going to be getting into with this keyboard.

What do you mean by “issues”?  That could have many meanings.  What does a “list of weaknesses” mean? (It can’t cook your dinner)

I think you’ll have to be a little more specific as to what kind of information you’re interested in!

I have noticed an abundance of Motif ES’ floating around and it seemed that the XF came out pretty quickly. I have also heard of Latency issues with the XS. Is the XS a wise or good purchase as opposed to the ES, since I really can’t afford the XF right now?

Every keyboard has it’s pros and cons.  But all and all they give you the unlimited power of making music.  The most important thing is “you and me"… the wizards.

After seveal years I found only 3 relative weaknesses
- the MOX series has a more intuitive UI (in spite of smaller LCD, etc.)
- for all of its robust look, the metallic paint on the XS case isn’t very heat proof. Putting a cup of coffee down for a quick sec led to a spot of puckered up white paint :-) Now mostly covered by trackball.
- heavier than any other digital keyboard (63 lbs without case)

This being stated, the XS8 is still the main keyboard in one of my studios. I was going to replace it with a MOX8 there too, but the XS8 case is so sturdy, it holds up a spruce board with a glass tabletop carrying 2 mixers, a microphone, two rack units and two computer keyboards with nary a problem. (Picture available upon request.) A MOX couldn’t do it, the case is simply shorter. :)

The reason you see ESes for sale is they are two generations older than the XF and many users have upgraded (maybe to a non-Yamaha board). I sold mine last year after buying an XF to get the flash memory.

Biggest weakness of the XS: volatile sample RAM, solved in the XF.

.. and here you see the flaw in your question. Weaknesses for some are strengths for others. I have a range of Yamaha workstations here ranging from the S85, through the ES7 to the XS8. There are things about the SY85 that no subsequent machine by any manufacturer has matched, but it’s a 12-bit machine. For some sounds, however, it can do better than an XS8 or my Kronos.

The XS is a superb workstation, and don’t let anyone ever tell you different. In *my* view it only has 4 weaknesses:

1) The 1024Kb sequencer memory (which isn’t really that big of a deal as we can save/load stuff so quickly via USB)

2) Performances work on a single MIDI channel which limits the usefulness of that mode with respect to external MIDI controllers (again, not a big thing as you can use Song mode to overcome that)

3) Insert FX are fixed to a specific voice, in other words they are part of the voice. Actually this is AMAZINGLY COOL in song mode, as you get the insert FX for every part (up to 8 parts anyway) which makes it more ‘immediate’ to import voices into the sequencer than with other workstations. The ‘weakness’ is that they didn’t give you the option to share insert FX between multiple tracks so you can’t get as creative as the hardware could theoretically allow.

4) There are no alternative methods of synthesis. It’s all sample based. Yamaha do this better than anyone with the possible arguable exception of Korg (and their V.A.S.T. engine), but I do miss analogue modelling, string modelling, FM synthesis and so on. You can approximate much of it with samples, but frankly, there is no substitute for the real engine when it comes to some sounds, as the sound morphs and changes as you play it in a way that samples can only freeze-frame to some extent.

Others will have different views, I’m only stating MY preferences. And there is the problem with your question, it’s VERY subjective. Having Flash ROM vs. RAM (like the XF does) is something I really couldn’t care less about. For some it’s completely the opposite and they’ll pay for it. Vive Le Difference ;-)

Df.

Dreamflight - 27 May 2012 10:19 PM

4) There are no alternative methods of synthesis. It’s all sample based. Yamaha do this better than anyone with the possible arguable exception of Korg (and their V.A.S.T. engine),

Df.

Actually, V.A.S.T. is the Kurzweil synthesis system, not Korg’s.

Of course it is. Stupid typo ;-)

Df.

very useful info folks. Thanx much.

What I was concerned about was thaings like what you are mentioning so that I could be aware of things that may be an issue in my usage of the keyboard as my main songwriting and production keyboard.

I had heard there were some latency issues and was considering holding off my purchase until I had enough for the XF. But from what I know of the Motif (I had the first generation when it came out, but itwas struck by lightning and I couldn’t replace even though it was insured )

And the comments here make me feel reassured and confident of my purchase decision.

When I had the original Motif, polyphony was a major issue for me and since I wil be attempting to do complete arrangements and production on this at home, I don’t want to be limited in that way. and I will be going into studio when finalizing tunes, but I like to work at home at odd hours with as much freedom to experiment with parts as possible.

meatballfulton - 26 May 2012 04:24 PM

The reason you see ESes for sale is they are two generations older than the XF and many users have upgraded (maybe to a non-Yamaha board). I sold mine last year after buying an XF to get the flash memory.

Biggest weakness of the XS: volatile sample RAM, solved in the XF.

What is the issue that volatile sample RAM causes. are there memory leaks or loss of data, etc.?

rootvox7 - 05 June 2012 12:48 PM

What is the issue that volatile sample RAM causes. are there memory leaks or loss of data, etc.?

Nothing of that sort. The only issue is that you need to reload your audio samples from a USB pen drive (or a computer connected through network) every time you switch on your XS. It’s like the RAM in your computer which is volatile too. On each power cycle, your computer reloads the OS and other programs from the Hard Disk Drive to the RAM. Not a big deal if you can wait for a while. Also, in live situations, this can be solved with an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS). This was solved in the XF with the introduction of FLASH.

VikasSharma - 05 June 2012 01:03 PM

rootvox7 - 05 June 2012 12:48 PM

What is the issue that volatile sample RAM causes. are there memory leaks or loss of data, etc.?

Nothing of that sort. The only issue is that you need to reload your audio samples from a USB pen drive (or a computer connected through network) every time you switch on your XS. It’s like the RAM in your computer which is volatile too. On each power cycle, your computer reloads the OS and other programs from the Hard Disk Drive to the RAM. Not a big deal if you can wait for a while. Also, in live situations, this can be solved with an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS). This was solved in the XF with the introduction of FLASH.

USB thumb drive? What is the average size or smallest that I could get away with? I actually have a16 GB thumb drive. I am hoping that would be enough.

rootvox7 - 05 June 2012 02:57 PM

USB thumb drive? What is the average size or smallest that I could get away with? I actually have a16 GB thumb drive. I am hoping that would be enough.

16GB is more than enough.  Keep in mind you will also need DIMM modules installed in the XS if you intend to utilize new samples loaded from that USB drive.

[quote author="cmayhle" date="1338939148
16GB is more than enough.  Keep in mind you will also need DIMM modules installed in the XS if you intend to utilize new samples loaded from that USB drive.

ok… What is and how do I ensure that I have DIMM modules. I will be getting the keyboard in about a week.

rootvox7 - 05 June 2012 05:21 PM

ok… What is and how do I ensure that I have DIMM modules. I will be getting the keyboard in about a week.

DIMM modules (Computer memory) like These.

These are not the only ones that will work, but I do not have first hand experience with the XS memory, so others here can suggest some additional product options they have had success with.

Go to the support area Here and download the XS Owners Manual to get more information on DRAM (DIMM) memory and how it is used.

You can also take a look at This thread.