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emanuelsj
Total Posts: 121
Joined 08-20-2011 status: Pro |
Hi, So this is what I have: a Performance using 3 arpeggios for the left hand and a solo instrument for the right hand. When I simultaneously press C, E, G with my left hand I will get a C chord and till here everything’s fine. When I press E, G and upper C, I get the exact same C chord but I want to have an “overthrown” C… This “overthrown” note has a specific name that unfortunately I don’t know in English. For e.g., if you’ll open Performance “Dreamscape” (which is in SpLyr/Symph) and press C, E and G, you’ll have the C chord. If you press E, G and upper C you will have the same C chord. BUT if you’ll open another Performance, such as “Sarah’s Dream” (which is also located in SpLyr/Symph), when you’ll input E, G and upper C, you will get the “overthrown” C I’m looking for. This “overthrowning” procedure works for other chords either, which will positively change the overall sound of a performance. My question is how can I edit “Dreamscape” performance in order to be able to have this kind of “overthrown” chords (the same as in “Sarah’s Dream"). Thank you in advance! |
VikasSharma
Total Posts: 1523
Joined 10-05-2010 status: Guru |
I’m not in front of my Motif right now but I guess this has something to do with the way the Arpeggios used in these Performances have been created. There are three different CONVERT TYPES: normal, fixed and org notes. See threads below for explanation:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/456106/
Hope that helps. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
“overthrown” I’m going to guess is an” inversion”.
The arpeggios phrases in the “Dreamscape” PERFORMANCE are four measure phrases
This will allow you to hear the arp phrase of each PART play through once
These arps are set to KEY MODE = SORT which means they will follow a predetermined pattern based on the analysis of the KEYs being pressed.
All of these arps (in Dreamscape") were developed for specifically for the arpeggio engine as introduced on the Motif XS and exhibit a specific “Chord Intelligence”. This innovation expanded on the arpeggio technology developed for the Motif ES (2003) which had many specifc “phrases” not previously available in arpeggiators (at least they were not expected) and it this technology that is what allows the current arpeggio engines to “correct” keyboard-player-guitar voicings (among other things). What I mean by “keyboard-player-guitar Voicings” is that mostly keyboard players do not understand how a guitar player voices a chord - (They would never Voice Cmajor C-E-G like your example). So even though as a keyboard player you may use a chord with a cluster of notes (semitone intervals) that physically cannot be fingered on a guitar’s fretboard, the XS arpeggiod (of this type) will sort out what chord quality you are attempting to play and substitute an appropriate chord spacing for a guitar. Now the PERFORMANCE you selected is not a guitar (I know) but if you look at the names of the ARPEGGIO TYPES for this particular PERFORMANCE you will see they all have “_XS” at the end of their name.
ARPEGGIO TYPE with “_XS” at the end of the type name
ARPEGGIO TYPE with a normal name
The Dreamscape is full of harmonic phrases that use this chord recognition function to shape the melodies/counter-melodies that it plays. The other PERFORMANCE you mention “Sarah’s Dream” uses Arpeggio types with normal names, so it is always influenced by the notes you play - if you play a non-recognized chord like C-C#-D the arp pattern does not care and plays what you instruct it to play… C-C#-D With “Dreamscape” (arps with “_XS” it will recognize Major, Minor, Diminished, Augmented, Dominant, etc., chords and it will adjust the melodic line to match, as best it can, what you outline within the chord that it decides you are attempting to voice. See page 62-63 of your Motif XS Owner’s Manual for more on TYPES of arps and the parameters that control them. |
VikasSharma
Total Posts: 1523
Joined 10-05-2010 status: Guru |
So, Bad_Mister, could you please explain how these _XS type arpeggios are created with a small example to get us started? |
emanuelsj
Total Posts: 121
Joined 08-20-2011 status: Pro |
Hello Bad_Mister, and thank you for your fast and efficient reply! - Indeed, I was speaking about “inversion” earlyer. After I read your lines (and also checked the 62-63 page from the manual) I understood that there is no way to stop these chords from acting like that, right? It’s a petty, cause “Dreamscape” sounds really great but that chord intelligence makes a performance kind of “harsh”. I guess this technology was ment to help unexperimented players or something. For a future keyboard (or even better, on the next Motif XS firmware update) it would be just great having the possibility to turn on and off this keyboard capability, which makes it easy to use for some and almost impossible to use for some others (I refere strictly to the XS arpeggios). Thank you and have a nice day, Bad_mister! - VikasSharma, thank you for the useful links, I managed to read only the fisr one, cause I had a busy day at the office. Cheers! |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
The _XS type is a special kind of arp developed to specifically work with melodic and chordal phrases. They were developed and designed by the engineers initially for the Motif XS arpeggio engine. And much like the orchestral samples in the WAVE ROM, you cannot effectively “make your own” _XS type arps. You can make some Chord Intelligent arps however.
What you can do:
I can help you understand the basics of how to go about making a user arpeggio.
Call up a blank PATTERN
If you create three arps from this - your understanding of arps will take a step forward
When you complete the recording of the phrase, press [STORE] and write your Pattern to Flash
Press [JOB]
In the dialog box that shows up:
When you set the CONVERT TYPE = ORG NOTE the Original Note Root parameter appears
Press [ENTER] to execute
Now that you have created your melodic phrase and converted to an ORG NOTE Arpeggio
If you play just a C it will play the melody in the key of C
Rinse and repeat, this time assign the “Convert Type” differently
With the same source song melody… use the Convert Type “Normal” - this is what an arpeggio normally does- plays the rhythm of your source data and takes the information of the currently held notes to do its thing with it. It will never play the melody correctly on its own. Arps traditionally did not do melodies, this is a re-invention of the arpeggio. Arpeggio traditionally did up, down, up/down, down/up, etc. Later more complex rhythmic stuff, and finally phrase-based melody arps, counter-melody arps, and the guitar intelligent chord voicing arps that you have in the XS/XF |
halylilian
Total Posts: 43
Joined 04-08-2012 status: Regular |
Hi Bad_mister, I created a Bass sound pattern with 3 notes (D, F, and A) on a track and turn it in an user ARP. When I played either Dm or Dmajor (with 3 notes)...etc, the ARP sounds right (with three notes as expected). Now, I want to play a Dmajor7 (as a transition chord) which should have 4 notes. I understand that turning a pattern of Bass sound with 3 notes, the converted ARP will only play 3 notes as above. My question is: > Which are 3 or 4 basic notes I should play in a pattern so that after the conversion from a pattern into an ARP, the ARP can plays 4 note to sound like a Major7, Minor7 chord...or any other chords with 4 notes. This is because I want to play Dm, Dmajor, Dmajor7, and Gm, or even Cmajor7....etc. Thank you |