mySoftware [Updates]

Once you create a user profile on Motifator and update with the appropriate information, the updates shown here will be specific to you.

rssFeeds [Syndicate]


forumforum
 

Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.

Viewing topic "Why Need FW16E Firewire Exp Brd"

     
Posted on: February 25, 2012 @ 12:30 PM
sorout
Total Posts:  12
Joined  02-18-2012
status: Regular

Hi,

I was wondering why do I need an FW16E Firewire Expansion Board for my Motif XF8, IF I buy a dedicated audio interface with more ins/outs?
- What are the advantages of FW16E?
- Can I use DAW Remote via USB?
- Can I monitor Cubase sound using headphones on Motif with FW16E?

Thanks!!! :)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 25, 2012 @ 12:55 PM
Apex
Total Posts:  683
Joined  10-21-2005
status: Guru

1) 16 simultaneous outs (mono) or 8 (stereo) with one cable.
2) not sure but yes I think so
3) yes I think so

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 25, 2012 @ 02:22 PM
Techman09
Total Posts:  75
Joined  03-16-2008
status: Experienced

I found that the best thing to do is to tailor your setup towards the Motif XF if you have the FW16e… I use it as my control surface, audio interface, ect… Makes for a clean setup if you are not picky about audio interfaces. I once was picky, so if you are, I could understand....

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 26, 2012 @ 07:03 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Why do I need the FW16E?
First, I’ll start by saying: the FW16E is not for everyone. If it were, it would come on the Motif XF as standard. The FW16E is for folks that want to do more serious Music Production on their computer using the XF as the centerpiece of their home studio.

A small home studio for a keyboard player could quickly become a bunch of individual boxes and a ganglia of wires connecting them… The FW16E allows you to conveniently take care of getting signals into and back out of your computer. But beyond the convenience, it is the flexibility and quality that are the real bonus.

1) the FW16E turns your Motif XF into an audio and MIDI interface for your computer.
Computers are built to do many things but one of them was not professional audio recording. A significant market has developed specifically to upgrade computer INPUTS and OUTPUTS. The mic jack (input) and speakers (output) provided with even a $3000 computer are simply a joke. I will not belabor this discussion (yes it is opinion, but one that an entire industry shares - otherwise you would not find so many audio/MIDI interfaces on the market and you would not find such a huge market for Home Studio Monitors speakers)!

We are talking about getting simple 1/4” guitar jacks into the computer and MIDI for goodness sake (Not standard in the world of computer music). The single FW cable takes care of both MIDI and AUDIO communication back and forth between the XF and your computer. 22 audio channels and the equivalent of 6 MIDI cables.

The A/D INPUTS on the back panel allow you to connect virtually any type of input signal (you can connect dynamic microphones directly, you can connect guitars/basses directly, you can connect a mixing console, etc., etc) the signal will then pass through the Yamaha 24-bit, 64-times oversampling A-to-D’s and can be routed on to your favorite DAW (using the downloadable low latency ASIO driver). Signal coming in the A/D INPUT can be processed with Motif XF INSERTION EFFECTS prior to being sent to your DAW via FW.

When you route your A/D INPUT to the main (system) outputs, you can additionally use the Motif XF System (Reverb/Chorus) Effects.

2) Simultaneous routing via 16 output buses means the greatest flexibility in multi-track to your DAW. And that is what it is all about. 6 audio returns from the computer are configured as 3 pairs: 1 to your MAIN XF OUTPUTS (where you connect your monitor speakers), the second to internal XF mixer (it can routed to the XF sampler if you wish), the third can be sent to the XF’s Assignable L/R Outputs (a second set of monitor speakers, or in larger setups, you can feed a separate headphone amp when you need multiple headphone mixes)

If your goal is just to record a simple stereo mix of your Motif XF sequence - there maybe no need to get an FW16E, (you can record a sequence directly to a connected USB stick for that) but if you are into larger projects where you are going to want to take advantage of adding other instruments and other musicians. If you are going to be taking advantage of individual multi-tracking techniques in your DAW -where you record many individual audio tracks - where you want to have each PART as a separate AUDIO track in your DAW, you want to take separate tracks for each drum, where you are overdubbing vocals, and guitar solos, and etc., etc.

The FW16E is a fantastic way of getting audio and MIDI into and back out of your computer. You will not be using those “cute” speakers that come with computers. Your audio will be routed from the computer to the main LEFT/RIGHT outputs of your Motif XF. So you will want to invest in a good pair of studio monitors for this purpose.

You will not find any other audio interfaces out there that will give you 16 audio buses from the XF to your computer. What you run through those 16 buses at any time is configurable… could be vocals or guitars, it could be individual drums from your XF drum kit, it could be mono signal, you can pair buses for stereo recording… it’s about flexibility. It would be impossible to give you every possible situation, but having the buses opens doors to things you cannot possibly consider when your interface is limited to just 2 channels (L/R).

3) Quality
Assuming you have a computer capable of running the FW protocol, you can anticipate pristine audio recording. WIth the flexible routing - you find that you can apply the processing power (hardware processing power) of the XF to any of your audio recordings. The VCM effects are hardware processors that (would are comparable to expensive plug-ins - without the drain on your CPU). The 3 pair of audio returns include ways you can RESAMPLE audio, process it in the XF and export the finished results back to your DAW. How you use your flexible routing will be determine by what creative thing you want to accomplish.

Asking is a 16 bus audio interface built-in to the XF more flexible than an external one with 2 or 4 channels, cannot be answered by simply saying it 8 times or 4 times more flexible… it is much more than that… it opens doors that would not exist otherwise.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 26, 2012 @ 08:16 AM
meatballfulton
Avatar
Total Posts:  3019
Joined  01-25-2005
status: Guru
sorout - 25 February 2012 12:30 PM

I was wondering why do I need an FW16E Firewire Expansion Board for my Motif XF8, IF I buy a dedicated audio interface with more ins/outs?

No you do not need FW16e if you have another interface. I own a Focsurite Saffire 40 and used it with my ES and then my XF before buying the FW16e. I still use it for it’s mike preamps (see below).

If you use an external interface you can record up to 4 analog channels from the XF (L/R main, assignable outs 1 and 2) or SPDIF digital copy of the L/R main channels (if your interface has a SPDIF input).

- What are the advantages of FW16E?

One cable connection to your computer, the simplest possible setup for recording

Signal remains digital for best quality

Split the XF outputs to multiple tracks (up to 16) in your DAW

Automatic integration with Cubase

Can resample digitally from DAW to XF

Can use XF as external FX processor for your DAW

The disadvantages:

Only two tracks of external audio can be recorded simultaneously via the A/D inputs

Cannot record a mike and line input at same time because of shared level settings on A/D inputs

No phantom power for condenser mikes (need phantom power supply OR mike preamp OR external mixer)

- Can I use DAW Remote via USB?

Yes

- Can I monitor Cubase sound using headphones on Motif with FW16E?

Yes

My take overall

Not recording external audio at all FW16e

Not using condenser mikes FW16e

Recording many channels of external audio simultaneously (full bands, more than 2 mikes, etc.) external interface

Recording without XF present external interface

No Firewire on computer external interface

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 26, 2012 @ 09:33 AM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

Split the XF outputs to multiple tracks (up to 16) in your DAW

There is no limit ("up to 16") to the number of tracks in your DAW that you can create from a single XF project. I’ve said it a thousand times TRACKS are not output via FW, PARTS are output via FW. A PART can be routed out as a MONO signal (uses 1 bus) or a STEREO signal (uses 2 buses, a left and a right).  So rarely, if ever does 16 MIDI tracks mean 16 audio tracks. It can mean less it can mean many more. Your mileage will vary. It is a very important point to understand before you get involved. 

Example: On a recent project my first pass from XF to Cubase included just the DRUMs. In the Motif XF my drum track is just a single track of MIDI data but it generated the following 9 audio tracks:
FW 1 = Kick
FW 2 = Snare
FW 3 = HH
FW 4 = Crash
FW 5/6 = Toms
FW 7/8 = Latin percussion
FW 9 = handclaps
FW10 = Ride Cymbal
FW 11/12 = misc percussion

1 MIDI track here equals 9 Audio Tracks (and I did it in a single pass). 6 mono tracks and 3 stereo tracks. And I still have the L/R and FW13/14 available.

On the next pass I work with the rest of the PARTS:
FW 1/2 = Piano
FW 3/4 = Strings
FW 5/6 = Brass
FW 7/8 = Pads, etc
FW 9 = Bass
FW 10 = Guitar Lead
FW 11 = Guitar Rhythm
FW 12 = Synth lead
FW 13/14 = Organ

So my 11 tracks of MIDI just turned into 18 tracks and I still haven’t mentioned the VOCALS and Backing Vocals

Only two tracks of external audio can be recorded simultaneously via the A/D inputs

This is not true - practically speaking only ONE track of audio can be recorded via the A/D INPUT… that one track can be MONO or it can be STEREO but only ONE - don’t see this as a disadvantage as ONE is always simultaneous!
:-)

Multi-tracking - if you record using multi-track technique (as pioneered by the late/great Les Paul) where one track is typically recorded at a time, “simultaneous” is of less concern.

I would never recommend FW16E to someone looking to SAVE TIME - the number of options that it opens rarely means you save time.... yes, sure you can do the drums all in one pass as opposed to doing it in 9 separate passes, as you would HAVE TO with an external (non FW16E audio interface) but because I have 16 buses, I find I spend more time thinking and being creative and coming up with more production ideas - so at the end of the day I’m happier with my project - but if I look at the clock and try and establish did I SAVE TIME - well yeah from one point of view, but then again I might not even have considered doing the separate DRUMS if all I had was an external interface where I had to do it ONE at a TIME, nine times - most likely I would have passed on the idea.

If you see my point. The “door” gets opened to more possibilities - and that means you might want to actually use them! If it’s more important to feel good about your project versus being done quicker… you cannot beat the FW16E with a stick (or an external interface).  When I need to record other musicians on a project I often use an external mixer _ if that mixer is going to enhance the recording of that musician. For example, if I find a singer whose voice would be enhanced by a phantom powered microphone, I get a mixer that would do that job for me. Most of Yamaha mixers are now audio interfaces (but some are not) either way I can connect the mixer easily enough to the A/D INPUT of the XF (convenient) and route it as necessary.

Devices to provide phantom power come from inexpensive ‘til you run out of money :-)

Typically I’m *overdubbing* just that musician, so *simultaneous* is of much less concern… they are the only signal I’m routing. If you are talking about recording separate musicians (as many as 16) to 16 audio tracks then you are talking getting something like the 01V96i -

This updated version of the workhorse 01V line adds a 16 bus, USB audio interface @ 96kHz (for “live” documentation of gigs - this is heaven on earth). The FW16E gives the Motif XS/XF unprecedented routing options within your 16 PARTS (we are sure that is what was meant to be conveyed) plus it allows you to route an external INPUT to a track of your DAW. That external INPUT can be a mono or stereo source, as simple as a dynamic mic, guitar, bass or as complex as an analog mixer containing the one musician or the entire band! How you make use of it is up to you.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: February 26, 2012 @ 10:55 AM
JBlongz
Avatar
Total Posts:  34
Joined  05-20-2011
status: Regular

Studio Computer + FW16E = a very productive Motif XF.

else
You will have to bounce a mixdown, or stems in serial instead of parallel.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 05, 2013 @ 06:23 AM
Leojazz0
Avatar
Total Posts:  9
Joined  01-11-2012
status: Newcomer

Hi!

does it work the same on the motif xs?

Thanks!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 05, 2013 @ 07:03 AM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  11071
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
Leojazz0 - 05 November 2013 06:23 AM

Hi!

does it work the same on the motif xs?

Thanks!

The FW16E is compatible with the Motif XS.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 05, 2013 @ 03:07 PM
Leojazz0
Avatar
Total Posts:  9
Joined  01-11-2012
status: Newcomer
5pinDIN - 05 November 2013 07:03 AM
Leojazz0 - 05 November 2013 06:23 AM

Hi!

does it work the same on the motif xs?

Thanks!

The FW16E is compatible with the Motif XS.

Thanks 5pinDIN!!! I’m Ready to Buy this Card “Audio Interface” :)

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 18, 2019 @ 07:26 AM
murrug
Total Posts:  1
Joined  11-18-2019
status: Newcomer

Example: On a recent project my first pass from XF to Cubase included just the DRUMs. In the Motif XF my drum track is just a single track of MIDI data but it generated the following 9 audio tracks:
FW 1 = Kick
FW 2 = Snare
FW 3 = HH
FW 4 = Crash
FW 5/6 = Toms
FW 7/8 = Latin percussion
FW 9 = handclaps
FW10 = Ride Cymbal
FW 11/12 = misc percussion

1 MIDI track here equals 9 Audio Tracks (and I did it in a single pass). 6 mono tracks and 3 stereo tracks. And I still have the L/R and FW13/14 available.

Please, can you explain me how to do that? How to transfert the different drum parts in just one single pass? Thanks!

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 19, 2019 @ 01:27 PM
5pinDIN
Avatar
Total Posts:  11071
Joined  09-16-2010
status: Legend
murrug - 18 November 2019 07:26 AM

Example: On a recent project my first pass from XF to Cubase included just the DRUMs. In the Motif XF my drum track is just a single track of MIDI data but it generated the following 9 audio tracks:
FW 1 = Kick
FW 2 = Snare
FW 3 = HH
FW 4 = Crash
FW 5/6 = Toms
FW 7/8 = Latin percussion
FW 9 = handclaps
FW10 = Ride Cymbal
FW 11/12 = misc percussion

1 MIDI track here equals 9 Audio Tracks (and I did it in a single pass). 6 mono tracks and 3 stereo tracks. And I still have the L/R and FW13/14 available.

It’s possible that there hasn’t been a reply because it might not be obvious that the above is just a partial quote from Bad_Mister’s post.

 

murrug -

Please, can you explain me how to do that? How to transfert the different drum parts in just one single pass? Thanks!

Since I don’t use Cubase myself, I was hoping that someone else would reply to your post. However, perhaps you’ll find this support article helpful:
http://www.motifator.com/index.php/support/view/motif_xf_as_an_external_instrument_using_cubase_7

If another member can be more helpful, please post.

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 19, 2019 @ 02:47 PM
🎹Lex
Avatar
Total Posts:  66
Joined  05-20-2009
status: Experienced

I don’t have my Motif on hand so I’m working from the manual and VST Editor for reference, but hopefully this will be accurate enough.

Splitting a drum kit’s output can be done in combination with any software that supports ASIO, not only Cubase.

Assuming you are working in Song or Pattern mode, on the Motif XF enter the Part Edit screen for the drum kit. Then, on the Output settings screen, set the Output Select to “drum”:

Press the [MIXING] button
Highlight the Part containing the drum kit
Press the [EDIT] button
Press [SF2] (Output)
Highlight “Output Select” and scroll to choose “drum”

Now, the output channel for each drum key will be set on a key-by-key (element-by-element) basis. To change the output for a given key, enter the Voice Edit screen for the drum kit and change its output there:

Press the [MIXING] button
Highlight the Drum part
Press [SF6] (Vce Edit)
Press the [1] button to enter the Key Edit display
Press the key on the keybed corresponding to the drum you want
Highlight “Output Select” and scroll to choose the FW channel(s) that you want
Press [STORE] to save the edited Mix Voice

The relevant pages in the manual are 153 (About “drum” setting) and 129 (Key Edit parameters).

  [ Ignore ]