Hey gang.  Hope this holiday season finds you well.

I purchased and downloaded the Axxe library.

Decided to load it in as stock “all” file (which of course blew away my User 2 and 3, but no matter...I want to reload everything anyway). 

When loaded the normal “all” way, everything works fine.  The strumming is cool and all that.

I then decided to reload everything and put the Libraries (Vintage Keys, Bees Knees, Chick, and Axxe) in some semblance of order so I:

1. loaded Vintage Keys to User2
2. copied the 13 Chick voices from User4/A1-A13 over to User2/F1-F13
3. loaded BeesKnees to User3
4. loaded Axxe to User4

When I turn on the Arpeggio On/Off button, none of the Axxe “strums” will strum.

I loaded the libraries in this manner because the pesky Chick Voices are tied to samples and I haven’t yet determined how to safely pull those in and out without stuffing my Flash board full.  I’ll figure this out (most likely “without sample"), so don’t bother responding to this particular issue.

Anyway...when I load Axxe User4 (on the .all file) into the XF User4 what am I missing for those strums??

Thanks for any help!

Kevin B. Selby

I think I figured it out.  I loaded the separate “arp” file and since I loaded Axxe into User4, I’m guessing that the arps naturally attached themselves to the voices in User4.

All appears to be well.  I now have a fully loaded XF to unleash on the world.  Life is yummy.

Kevin B. Selby
http://kevinselby.com <-- Peaceful Music
http://facebook.com/BajaDunes <-- Live Performance

selbalicious - 26 November 2011 07:41 PM

I think I figured it out.  I loaded the separate “arp” file and since I loaded Axxe into User4, I’m guessing that the arps naturally attached themselves to the voices in User4.

All appears to be well.  I now have a fully loaded XF to unleash on the world.  Life is yummy.

Kevin B. Selby
http://kevinselby.com <-- Peaceful Music
http://facebook.com/BajaDunes <-- Live Performance

Kevin, I’m interested in this library as well. If I load it all into User4 - which is what the description says - will this work OK? Thanks.

Alan

As far as I can tell, if you carefully load Axxe User4 (when you drill down into the AxxeXF.n3.X3A file and rest your cursor on User4) into the User4 of the Motif then you must turn around and load the “AxxeXF Arps.X3G” file and I think it automagically attaches the arps to the voices in User4.

Obviously, Bad_Mister and/or Mr. Polich please correct me.

If I may also at this time make a simple observation:
I’ve been in software development for nearly 20 years (and of course, I’ve been a “user” of software much longer than that) and I gotta say, the reason this forum is CHOCK FULL of users scratching their heads when it comes to loading or saving anything is BECAUSE the UI for this is just plain confusing.

Sure, once I halfway understood it (and I won’t claim victory yet because I know there’s some other UI weirdness awaiting me) I suppose I can sort of “get” where the engineers were coming from, but in case it isn’t obvious to Yamaha: if the statistics show you a TON of people all asking the same question, then you need to ask yourself whether the confusion is either mass hysteria, OR, your UI for loading/saving is less than obvious.

Don’t get me wrong, once I wrapped my head around most of the load/save “things”, I’m pretty quick at moving things into and out of the machine, but I really feel sorry for the NON-computer/NON-software developers out there.  Poor souls.

Still love me my XF8 (XF7 is coming tomorrow!  YEAH!).

selbalicious - 29 November 2011 03:34 AM

Don’t get me wrong, once I wrapped my head around most of the load/save “things”, I’m pretty quick at moving things into and out of the machine, but I really feel sorry for the NON-computer/NON-software developers out there.  Poor souls.

Selbalicious, I am one of those “Poor souls”, and I appreciate your empathy.  For any others out there who find moving voices and performances in/out of the XF, or organizing, re-ordering, and creating pools of them for your own purposes wholly daunting, I heartily recommend John Melas’ Total Librarian.  Sure, you will need to have a computer connected to use it, but the UI here is VERY familiar to you because it is structured like the file tree system you have already become used to on your computer.  I am glad I bought it every time I fire it up.

I really feel sorry for the NON-computer/NON-software developers out there.  Poor souls.

LOAD/SAVE ‘things’ are new to you. It’s long been a dream of musicians to customize their own WAVE ROM - if you don’t know how a VOICE is constructed - you can learn about it. Then when someone says “Samples and Waveforms” you don’t have to keep thinking - “Aren’t those the same thing?” (they are not) - If you still think they are the same thing - you have not really appreciated what this feature is doing.

If you still are wondering “What happened to the sound, I loaded the “S700 for XS” piano and it played fine and then I powered down and back up and the VOICE data was there but the sound was gone” you have not stopped to even understand the problem that FLASH BOARDS solve. So each is on their own level. Don’t pity the “poor souls”, help them understand the volatile nature of RAM (you’re a computer person!!!)

Bad_Mister: did you accidentally post to the wrong thread?

My original post (and no other post in the thread) had absolutely nothing to do with effects routing (which I understand COMPLETELY by the way, thanks to studying the manuals and reading your excellent tutorials on the subject).  Nor were we speaking of the various modes of the Motif (which I’m ALMOST to the nirvana stage of understanding).

It’s like your answer seems to be pointing to someone else?

My post was about one single gaping flaw in the UI of the Motif: the file I/O when it comes to, say, loading an awesome sound library and/or trying to move Song files (or SMFs) or trying to get arps created by the sound library designer to be successfully attached to the sound library voices themselves.

I’ll just come out and say it (since you clearly have sidestepped the entire discussion here??):

The file UI SUCKS.  Big time.  Don’t attempt to hide it, don’t attempt to gloss over it, don’t attempt to get all technical and snarl people up in some esoteric discussion about how we learn as humans and how algebra seems hard at first, blah blah blah.  It sucks.  Period.  It violates all current (and dare I say it PAST) “rules” of good UI.  Heck...DOS 6.0 possibly had a better grip on file UI than this does.  It makes the user guess what different sections of the screen “mean” AAAAAND it changes its “design” in huge ways depending on the file types (which is somewhat understandable, but still sucky).  In case you can’t tell it sucks, just pull some statistics off of this excellent forum concerning EVERY TIME a new user (again, whether they are computer “literate” or not) stumbles over the sucky file UI.

Wheww...glad I got that out and I’m NOT unhappy at all...I just have to call it as I (and many others) see it.

Now before anyone goes out and orders a sniper rifle to shoot some sense into me, please understand: the concepts concerning files, voices, performances, patterns, songs, samples, and pretty much everything the Motif can do ARE somewhat complicated and Yamaha has done, in most cases, an EXCELLENT job in what we call “abstracting the complexity” so that the complex concepts can be more easily understood by common everyday users.  But none of that is any excuse for a UI that consistently and CONSTANTLY trips users up as evidenced by the many many threads on this forum that all center around the same confusion regarding file UI. 

Could it be that there is truly NO OTHER WAY to handle file UI?  Certainly.  But again, poor or confusing UI design, EVEN WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, is not the “fault” (if you will) of the user and no amount of chiding is going to erase that.

I really can’t stand the trite phrase “I mean no disrespect”, but I’m afraid I actually have to say that...because I LOVE this forum, I love the help and I adore my XF’s. Please don’t misunderstand my blunt force trauma directed at an obvious sore spot of the Motif.

I had some thoughts concerning the ridiculous 1 Mb of pattern/song storage, but I’m guessing I better leave that alone (grin!).

Kevin B. Selby

As the programmer/author of “Axxe” (I’m DCP Productions)...let me chime in here.

If you follow the instructions in the Axxe XF Manual for loading, and you follow them EXACTLY, you should have no trouble loading the library to the User 4 bank - that’s exactly where it is designed to load to, IF you load it as an ALL file, which is what the manual instructions recommend.

I don’t get what the confusion is about loading to the User 4 Bank - the library loads there anyway, IF you follow the manual instructions.

If you choose to load it as a single voice bank, then of course there is
a different method for loading, and you must then load the separate arp file. AND, you will lose the Performances, you will have to load those one at a time, separately, and “connect"them to the voices that belong to them, AFTER you load the single bank and arps.

Confusing? Yes. That’s why the library should be loaded as an ALL file,
as the manual states.

Now, Keyfax and I produced a video explaining all about loading and saving and flash memory in the XF - we did this to answer these same questions that get posted over and over again, every week. The downloadable version is here:
http://www.keyfax.com/index.php/motif-xf-fully-loaded-download-only.html

The “boxed version” is available here:
http://shop.motifator.com/index.php/dvds/motif-series-yamaha-dvds/yamaha-motif-xf-fully-loaded-dvd.html

Whether you think the XF user interface sucks or not, it is what it is,
and complaining won’t fix it. You just have to get down and learn it.
The “XF Fully Loaded” video was created to help you do just that.

DavePolich - 29 November 2011 03:05 PM

...it is what it is, and complaining won’t fix it. You just have to get down and learn it.

Learning the UI or any other feature for that matter in its current state is fine, but Yamaha, being a company that listens very carefully to its customers, is known to accord user-feedback its due importance.

I had three other User libraries already loaded (including Chick’s Rhodes which has samples) and had already wiped them out once and didn’t really feel like re-loading them yet again.  So I chose to load Axxe specifically to User4 (and not via the “all” method).  I just didn’t realize immediately where the arps had gone.  The other libraries either didn’t have arps, or I didn’t care about their arps.  But the Axxe arps?!!  I very MUCH care about them because they are insanely cool.  I stumbled onto the fact that you can load them separately and they seem to “look” to User4 to get hooked up again.

I will agree with you and Phil that if you follow the instructions EXACTLY you will have great results.  Problem is: the instructions don’t really account for users who have other libraries loaded that they don’t want to blow away.  So the user must pick and choose carefully to get all things loaded correctly.

I gotta say, now that all of it is loaded and I’m on my way, I’ve got a VERY powerful system.

My next step is to take the time (too many gigs right now...gotta carve out some time in December) to painstakingly go through every single Preset and User voice (running through my Yamaha HS80M’s in the studio no less!) and cull out the sounds I don’t really need/want right now and create a very organized set of User banks that will last me into the coming months/years.  Of course it doesn’t help that I’m lusting after the DCP Acoustic Steel Guitar library.  SHEESH you guys do great work!

Regarding my sour grapes, yeah...I was kind of harsh and I apologize. I went into the post knowing I can’t change the UI, but I also can’t help but see many many other users stumbling over the same thing.  Phil seemed to take issue with my offhand comments to the other “poor soul”, so I felt compelled to open my big mouth.  Much apologies.  I really don’t want to alienate anyone nor bitch about things I can’t change. 

All is well!

First gig this Thursday with JUST the XF7.  Yeah!!!

Apologetically,

Kevin B. Selby
http://kevinselby.com <-- Peaceful Music
http://facebook.com/BajaDunes <-- Live Performance

Thanks for purchasing the Axxe library, and apologies accepted, although
not really necessary.

The tedious process of “picking and choosing” will always be present simply because you will never have enough user bank slots or flash RAM
to load everything you want to use (and trust me, there is even more coming from DCP that you will want to use). There’s just no way around
having to decide what you keep and what to leave out.

Not all libraries feature arps. As long as you have the separate arp file,
it’s never a problem to load a voice bank to a bank of your choice (using the “load 1 bank” option) if you FIRST load the arp file. The voices
are looking for user arps with specific numbers, so once the arps are in,
the voices, no matter what bank they are in, will connect to those arps.

DavePolich - 29 November 2011 05:41 PM

(and trust me, there is even more coming from DCP that you will want to use). There’s just no way around
having to decide what you keep and what to leave out.

Dang you!  ah...it’s a good thing.  Plus it will force me to pare things down.  I just HATE to toss perfectly good presets cuz I “just might need that some day”.  Heh heh.

DavePolich - 29 November 2011 05:41 PM

it’s never a problem to load a voice bank to a bank of your choice (using the “load 1 bank” option) if you FIRST load the arp file. The voices
are looking for user arps with specific numbers, so once the arps are in,
the voices, no matter what bank they are in, will connect to those arps.

Aha!  I did it the other way around I think.  I shall note this for future loading.

Thanks for your patience!  I will be using your work during this Thursday’s gig.  Let the fun begin!

Kevin