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Viewing topic "Recording the A/D Part"

     
Posted on: November 06, 2011 @ 08:32 PM
joesax
Total Posts:  185
Joined  03-11-2009
status: Pro

Can the A/D Part be one of the 4 Parts in a Performance?

If so how do I select it?

If I can then I should be able to use Direct Performance Recording to a Song with the A/D Part as one of the 4 Parts.

The manual states that the A/D Part can be used in Performance mode.

Thanks,
Joe

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Posted on: November 06, 2011 @ 10:10 PM
MarPabl
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The A/D input of PERFORMANCE mode won’t get recorded to the SEQUENCER. When you use direct performance recording, the mapping for PARTS 1-4 is fixed and it doesn’t consider the A/D input. Additionally, you can’t exchange one of the VOICE PARTS of the PERFORMANCE for the A/D input. Those are different and separate components for a PERFORMANCE.

I know you want to record a WAV file of the PERFORMANCE and the A/D input simultaneously. In order to do this on SONG/PATTERN, the SAMPLER would need to execute two tasks simultaneously:
1. Record the A/D input to a WAV file and map it to a SAMPLE VOICE.
2. Resample the whole SONG/PATTERN to a WAV file.

I don’t think the SAMPLER will be able to do both tasks at the same time…

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Posted on: November 07, 2011 @ 06:16 AM
Bad_Mister
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This is a what’s the difference between MIDI and AUDIO question…

Can the A/D Part be one of the 4 Parts in a Performance?

No. Actually the A/D PART is the fifth PART of a PERFORMANCE, and if you have FW16E, this digital-in can be the sixth. There can be four internal synth PARTS in a PERFORMANCE (these are controllable via MIDI commands, velocity, note-ons, etc.). There can be a configuration of the A/D INPUT customized to go with this Performance. (Please do not make us explain why the A/D INPUT PART is not the same as the internal synth Parts) - a microphone is not a MIDI device, neither is a guitar or bass - the devices you connect to the A/D INPUT are not internal to the XF and therefore do not have a MIDI channel, cannot be assigned controllers, they are analog devices and more importantly they are external devices. Not like an internal synth PART. If you think about it, it is very, very obvious.

If so how do I select it?

Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON EDIT]
Press [F4] AUDIO IN
Here you can set the attributes of the AUDIO PARTS. Be it the A/D INPUT or the FW INPUT

On your XF mixer (when in SONG/PATTERN mode, the AUDIO INPUT PARTS are available as the 17th and 18th PARTS:
Press [MIXING]
Press [F2] AUDIO

PARTS is an entity you only find in PERFORMANCE and SONG/PATTERN MIXING. By giving the AUDIO INPUTS a PART you can store certain basic things about them. VOLUME, PAN, Type of IN, SEND to the System Effects, and in the case of the A/D assign Dual Insertion Effects, Output routing… these parameters can be edited and stored with each Performance Program and with each SONG or each PATTERN as necessary. The flexibility of having different settings storable per Program is obvious and is a clear advantage.

In VOICE mode there is no PART to contain a different setting for each VOICE, so the AUDIO setup you select in UTILITY > VOICE AUDIO is for all of VOICE mode. Make sense?

If I can then I should be able to use Direct Performance Recording to a Song with the A/D Part as one of the 4 Parts.

the Direct PERFORMANCE Record function is designed to record MIDI data. This MIDI data is generated by either YOU pressing the keys or it is generated by the XF’s arpeggiators that might be assigned to a PART.  My question for you is… just what type of MIDI data is your microphone generating and if you did have MIDI data what is going to trigger the microphone when you playback? :-) rhetorical question, no answer necessary.

The manual states that the A/D Part can be used in Performance mode.

The manual is correct. An A/D PART can indeed be used in a PERFORMANCE but the A/D PART is designed to convert audio (sound) from the analog world to the digital world of the audio inside the XF. There you can sample it, if you want, or apply effects to it if you wish, then route it to an analog (or digital) output. You do not get any MIDI data from it!!!

Recording yourself playing and singing would be an example of a use case - working with a PERFORMANCE. This can easily be accomplished with a Firewire connection to your computer and Cubase, however.

With an optional FW16E firewire board, your options improve to include being able to route the A/D INPUT on its own discreet audio bus to your favorite DAW, simultaneously each of the PARTS of your PERFORMANCE could be routed as audio to its own audio track. And you have enough audio buses to record mono or stereo from each PART as you might require. By the way, you have no loss of front panel control functions - because you are not “sampling” and you are not “filing” at the same time, you are actually in one of the main “PLAY” modes.

That said…
OTHER POSSIBILITIES: It is possible to record audio (called SAMPLING) into RAM of the Motif XF at the same time you are playing and recording the performance on the keyboard. It does have some limitations, however. By placing the INTEGRATED SAMPLER into RECORD TYPE = RESAMPLE, you will be able to record all inputs to the XF simultaneously as a sample (.WAV). That is, anything coming in the A/D INPUT, the FW INPUT and the input from the tone generator are combined and recorded to the sampler.  The trade off here is you loose real-time control via the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] functions. Your prinicipally SAMPLING.

Similary, you can attach a USB stick to the “TO DEVICE” port of the XF, or connect your XF to your computer and establish either an Ethernet or Wireless network, then via the FILE > [F4] AUDIO RECORD/PLAY feature, you can record your playing and singing “live” direct to the file. Again the trade off here is limited access to real-time control functions. You are creating a FILE writing the audio in real-time.

Hope that helps.

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Posted on: November 07, 2011 @ 07:35 AM
joesax
Total Posts:  185
Joined  03-11-2009
status: Pro

Thanks, BM. Your explanation was clear. It looks like I would need the FW Board to do what I want, that is:

Play a Performance (with Performance Control) with an additional Voice coming from my Tyros 3 attached via the A/D Input and record this real time, not track by track, as a WAV File, not MIDI.

My confusion was thinking there was a way to record the Digital Output of the Motif (which would include the Performance and the A/D Voice)on the Motif as WAV file while still maintaining Performance Control.

I do not multi-track. I play and record live. Having the Tyros spoiled me as I can record the Left, R1, R2, R3 voices, Multi-Pads and the Style with all Variations either as MIDI or Digital Audio very easily. I tried playing the Motif through the AUX IN of the Tyros to record there but had some sound issues that I could not overcome so I rout the Tyros through the Motif A/D Input instead.

I may just get a Sony PCM-MD 50 Digital recorder and run the Motif Digital Out to the recorders Digital In. That should allow me to play the performance with control along with the A/D Voice and capture it on the Sony. That is if the A/D Voice is included in the Digital Out. That is correct is it not?

Thanks, Joe

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Posted on: November 07, 2011 @ 08:40 AM
Bad_Mister
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It is pretty easy to be spoiled by a $5500 instrument :-)

Not sure what “issues” you ran into with your Tyros3 but to answer your question, yes the signal that is output via the S/PDIF (digital) output is a digital version of the signal that is delievered to the main and headphone outputs. (It is not, however, affected by the main VOLUME slider). Your [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] functions will all be available including the CS1~CS4 Control Sliders… everything but the main volume which is an analog control. Volume for the digital OUT is addressed:
UTILITY > [F1] GENERAL > [SF1] TG > VOLUME = 127

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Posted on: November 07, 2011 @ 10:45 AM
joesax
Total Posts:  185
Joined  03-11-2009
status: Pro

Thanks Again, you’ve been very helpful.

The issues on the Tyros were:

The lead voices ( Piano, Sax, Flute, etc.) had their notes clipped (shortened) like a negative Release )

Lower voices from C1 to F2 ( the split point) had something like a low end note off noise.

I turned off all effects. No change. It all works great through the XF.

BTW, I only paid $3K for the T3.

Joe

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Posted on: November 07, 2011 @ 05:27 PM
Redhotpoker
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joesax - 07 November 2011 10:45 AM

Thanks Again, you’ve been very helpful.

BTW, I only paid $3K for the T3.

Joe

Hi joesax,
I think Phil was referring to the marvelous newer Tyros 4.
Coincidentally, I went to a fun ‘clinic’ last week to watch an incredible demonstration & to listen to a master of Yamaha keyboards, Mr. Peter Bartmans, playing an AvantGrand, on the Clavinova and ofcourse thee marvelous Tyros 4.... WOW!!!!

I’d ‘like’ to own a Tyros also.

Chas

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Posted on: November 08, 2011 @ 06:15 AM
Bad_Mister
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No, I was referring to the Tyros 3 retail price. I’m not referring to what you paid for it, (I could not know that) but the retail price of the Tryos 3 was $5499 as best I can remember. The Tyros 4 is closer to $5999 (retail).

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Posted on: November 08, 2011 @ 12:26 PM
Redhotpoker
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Total Posts:  3601
Joined  11-18-2010
status: Guru

Hi Phil,
Ah, I never new the Tyros 3 cost so much, my apology.
Now I remember why I purchased my Motif XF8 rather than the marvelous Tyros 4…

Either way, incredible machines each in their own design.

be well

Chas

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