Apex:
You don’t have to write in red to make your point of view bigger!

We are all different…
-For exemple,build quality is so important for me!
-Another exemple:the karma
If you don’t want to spend a entire life to try to understand how to programm karma,the XF arpeggiator is more interesting.

With the kronos synthesis complexity,i’m sure a big part of kronos buyers are playing like a child just with the presets....and are trying to convince them they bought the best synth in the world!

The XF is more clear to understand in a pro or semi pro project..it’s a fact!(because there is less parameters..)

And even if you said some truth about kronos VS XF,not only some XF guitars are superior..it’s not so simple.

But we can have millions post about that,just consider these things:
-buy what you want,and maybe buy the synth for what you are want to do...and do it!

-Xf and kronos are very very good synths,no synth now is bad..

-kronos is more powerfull..so kronos is better than the XF for that.
But is it better for every people?not sure..

-the XF is the best rompler ever made...because it does very well what it does..
But the XF rom is the best rom (for all purpose)ever made in a rompler..

So if kronos is better...that doesn’t mean the XF is bad..

So why all theses post?(lol)

Apex - 01 November 2011 01:59 PM

See again… assumption.  They do have a similar feature.  It’s called external control mode and it was on the m3 as well.

Sorry, Apex but I’ve read the Kronos manual and the “similar” external control features are nowhere near as complete an implementation as what’s been built into every Motif since 2000.

All Korg has done (and they have offered this on many of their synths over the years) is let you manually assign CCs/NRPNs to the knobs, sliders and switches of the device. Yamaha actually implemented the Mackie Control protocol which is bidirectional and privdes feedback form the DAW to the hardware, so you can display parameter names and values, display level meters, etc.

I’m not just making an assumption. I actually used Remote Mode with my ES and was disappointed to find that Kronos’ external control features were so limited in comparison, they’ve had ten years to catch up.

I have nothing against Kronos and think it’s a very nice instrument. I looked at it very carefully when it was announced and there were enough cons for me to buy an XF instead. I also saved a lot of money, paying about 25% less for my XF6 with FL board than a Kronos 61 sells for.

near the same for me:
28 per cent less my XF with 512 than a kronos 61..
Not the same category price..

lekanout - 01 November 2011 04:54 PM

Apex:
You don’t have to write in red to make your point of view bigger!

We are all different…
-For exemple,build quality is so important for me!
-Another exemple:the karma
If you don’t want to spend a entire life to try to understand how to programm karma,the XF arpeggiator is more interesting.

With the kronos synthesis complexity,i’m sure a big part of kronos buyers are playing like a child just with the presets....and are trying to convince them they bought the best synth in the world!

The XF is more clear to understand in a pro or semi pro project..it’s a fact!(because there is less parameters..)

And even if you said some truth about kronos VS XF,not only some XF guitars are superior..it’s not so simple.


But we can have millions post about that,just consider these things:
-buy what you want,and maybe buy the synth for what you are want to do...and do it!

-Xf and kronos are very very good synths,no synth now is bad..

-kronos is more powerfull..so kronos is better than the XF for that.
But is it better for every people?not sure..

-the XF is the best rompler ever made...because it does very well what it does..
But the XF rom is the best rom (for all purpose)ever made in a rompler..

So if kronos is better...that doesn’t mean the XF is bad..

So why all theses post?(lol)

I didn’t write in red to make my point bigger… I wrote in red because I had several statements that I was responding to and I didn’t want my response to get mixed in with his statements...(it was just to to make it easier to differentiate)

I never really said one was better than the other (i have both… just getting to explore the xf though)

no problem apex!

All i want to say is the fact we are looking so many different things in a workstation..so it’s very difficult to have only one conclusion!

But it’s not so important,we just have to find our own way to make music..

Apex - 01 November 2011 05:47 PM

I never really said one was better than the other (i have both… just getting to explore the xf though)

So lastly you kept the Motif XF7

MarPabl - 02 November 2011 02:22 AM

Apex - 01 November 2011 05:47 PM

I never really said one was better than the other (i have both… just getting to explore the xf though)

So lastly you kept the Motif XF7

At this point yes… The Fantom G7 sold for $2425 (plus shipping).  So at this point, yes I have the XF7 and the XS rack (the xs rack is still up for sale on eBay… I may drop the price a bit more tomorrow… now since I have the XF), but I’m not so sure I’m gonna keep this XF either. (remember your idea of selling everything (except the Kronos) and getting the Jupiter?  Well I’ve had thoughts suggestions and ideas, and selling all (except the Kronos and the Roland XV 5080 (i love that thing) and just waiting to see what Yamaha unveils at winter NAM.  I wish I had even the slightest idea if they were even planning anything.  I kinda want to say I wish they were, but I kinda want to say I wish they were not. 

Do you think they are? or you think the XF is it for a few years?

Well I think that selling Fantom G7 and Motif XS rack is a good choice =D I also sold my M3-88 fully expanded because IMHO Kronos covers it.

I analysed the timeframe for Motif line and it has usually been not less than 2 years and 4 years at the most… so I think it’s not likely we’ll see the successor of Motif XF on Winter NAMM.

I think (I must insist on “think” because I’m not certain at all) that if we see something new from Yamaha this Winter NAMM, that should be a new synthesis model, because AWM2 really has many many years without any real major update. If you compare with Korg, for example, there are currently many more synth models available: EDS, HI, MMT, Kronos (to avoid listing the 9)…

MarPabl - 02 November 2011 01:51 PM

Well I think that selling Fantom G7 and Motif XS rack is a good choice =D I also sold my M3-88 fully expanded because IMHO Kronos covers it.

I analysed the timeframe for Motif line and it has usually been not less than 2 years and 4 years at the most… so I think it’s not likely we’ll see the successor of Motif XF on Winter NAMM.

I think (I must insist on “think” because I’m not certain at all) that if we see something new from Yamaha this Winter NAMM, that should be a new synthesis model, because AWM2 really has many many years without any real major update. If you compare with Korg, for example, there are currently many more synth models available: EDS, HI, MMT, Kronos (to avoid listing the 9)…

the ONLY thing that Kronos does not directly cover that the M3 has is the portability of the m3m… that’s a very priceless option if you ask me.

A fully synth/sampler/sequencer/faders/touch screen/EVERYTHING in a portable module… that’s awesome man… just think about it..

it weighs less than my infant children… just throw it under you arm and go!!!

That’s indeed true M3M is a great rack you don’t usually find anywhere something that can compare to it… later I found that you had an M3-88 and just sold your keybed, right? Now I’m looking for a M3-61 keybed for my Radias rack.

Talking about racks, some guys have said that maybe we’ll see the Motif XF rack this Winter NAMM. I think that is possible, considering Motif XS rack hit the market one year later than Motif XS workstation…

only thing about the history of the motif racks is that none of them had sample abilities.  So in this case how could they make the xf rack any different than xs rack?  they’d have to include flash capabilities.

Man… I’m sitting here throughout today looking at this XF7 box… wanting to open it SOOOO bad… LOL!!!  But I still haven’t pulled the trigger yet.  Seems like it would be just as good to just get the XS7… (if I just gotta have a motif)

mmm maybe you should go to your local music shop and make sure to compare your Motif XS rack with the Motif XF =D Not just the sounds but also the sequencer modes, the user interface and even the sampler…

Maybe it’s not that important to you to compare Motif XS workstation and Motif XF workstation since you don’t have one Motif XS worstation and I don’t believe it’s advisable to replace your Motif XS rack for the Motif XS workstation.

If you really find differences and like the Motif XF you’re sure and free to go open the box!!!

And if you open the box, then try to get some good deals for FW16E and at least one FL512M to load the “Inspiration in a Flash” content.

Regarding the XF rack, yes I think that one needs to support Flash boards. But even if it doesn’t support it, the waveform will be bigger than XS but “just” for that, maybe (I think) won’t be a nice upgrade for many current owners…

Why did you bold “YOUR” when you said your xs rack? 

the xs rack does not have a sequencer mode or a sampler. 

please explain your second paragraph… (i’m not following you),

but then if I don’t find differences then what? LOL!!!!?!?!?

yeah, i been thinking about the firewire cards, but not sure that i’d use them much (that is unless I could daisy chain them to my current interface, I’ve only got one firewire port on my laptop)

I put “your” in bold because it’s likely that there won’t be any Motif XS rack on the music shop so you should take your Motif XS rack with you in order to properly compare both. The second paragraph means that, for your particular setup, Motif XF has much to offer besides the new waveforms because indeed your rack lacks many cool features you have on Motif XF (and also on Motif XS workstation) For example, you’ll get a nice Sequencer with the Motif XF you have and while you could also get that with the Motif XS workstation, the fact is that you currently just own an XS rack and a XF so IMHO there’s no point for you to exclude those features on the comparison just because you may also get them on the Motif XS workstation.

If you don’t really like all what you’ll get with your Motif XF, then you can be sure that the best decision for you is to sell it =D But you better try first!

I read you like the USB audio interface of the Kronos, so I think FW16E is worth the value for you because it’s really better than Kronos.

MarPabl - 02 November 2011 05:53 PM

I put “your” in bold because it’s likely that there won’t be any Motif XS rack on the music shop so you should take your Motif XS rack with you in order to properly compare both. The second paragraph means that, for your particular setup, Motif XF has much to offer besides the new waveforms because indeed your rack lacks many cool features you have on Motif XF (and also on Motif XS workstation) For example, you’ll get a nice Sequencer with the Motif XF you have and while you could also get that with the Motif XS workstation, the fact is that you currently just own an XS rack and a XF so IMHO there’s no point for you to exclude those features on the comparison just because you may also get them on the Motif XS workstation.

If you don’t really like all what you’ll get with your Motif XF, then you can be sure that the best decision for you is to sell it =D But you better try first!

I read you like the USB audio interface of the Kronos, so I think FW16E is worth the value for you because it’s really better than Kronos.

Why is the Motif firewire interface better than the Kronos USB? (other than you get more channels of audio)

So you are saying to take the XS rack into the store to properly compare the way it sounds?, but to also take into consideration the OTHER features that the XF will bring to the table that the XS rack doesn’t (but the XS board would)…

but since I have the XF board, I must bring to the table the feature set that the board brings to the table that the rack doesn’t have… sequencer, sampler, etc… (editable elements via the board and not having to use the computer… !!!! That’s a big one that I forgot about.)