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Viewing topic "Using Motif XS6 with Logic 9 - Midi Sync Question"

     
Posted on: October 21, 2011 @ 11:56 AM
dunai
Total Posts:  10
Joined  08-21-2005
status: Newcomer

Hello Everyone,

I noticed that an imported XS6 generated SMF in Logic is different then the sync’d midi recorded data from the same Song Sequence. When you take a look at both files the notes are not lining up, note lengths and velocity values are different. I noticed that I can change where the notes fall when I’m sync’d to the XS6 by changing the Synchronization/Midi/Midi Clock ~ “Delay Transmission by” value in Logic. I just don’t know if I’m truly fixing the problem or causing myself more problems down the road.

As an example I’ve attached two screen shots of the Midi Event window in Logic. The song i’m using is the stock “Memory of the King” song which comes with the XS.

Is this an exact science or will there always be variations based on the different resolutions Logic and the XS have?

Image Attachments
Memory of the King - SMF.pngMemory of the King Sync'd from XS.png
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Posted on: October 22, 2011 @ 04:33 PM
motif8mine
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Total Posts:  1742
Joined  10-22-2004
status: Guru

??? There’s really not enough info to try and venture a guess. There a myriad of settings that could affect this and without knowing how you have set them, I am clueless. For instance, are you actually sync’ed to Logic via the XS. Not saying that you are not, however this would indeed would affect what you are seeing. I know someone who tried to convince me he was synced when actually, he was attempting to have Logic chase the XS’ clock. The problem: the XS does not trnasmit the kind of signal that Logic reads…

I do find it curious that an imported SMF would or could start before the first measure. Your pic shows it starting at 0,1,1,1. That’s before the first measure. I’ve never seen that before. I am not sure whether you are importing or just drag dropping the MIDI file into Logic… That said, music is not visual or optic, it is aural and audible. I am not interested in how music looks, rather how it sounds. That is does it play in sync and in tempo with Logic, click track for instance…

Finally, the different resolutions of the sequencers: Logic’s and the XS, will perhaps account for slight differences in the placement of notes during import or export. This is typicially, imho, more noticeable when going from a higher resolution sequencer like Logic’s into the XS- and when playing with a swing feel.

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Posted on: October 31, 2011 @ 10:45 AM
dunai
Total Posts:  10
Joined  08-21-2005
status: Newcomer

Sorry for the delay in responding, really appreciate your support! I did move the imported SMF so that it would line up at a particular measure so I could do a proper comparison. I understand what you’re saying I just want to make sure that I’m not going in circles an understand what exactly are the limitations.

Some background on my work flow: While in the Performance mode I record into Song Mode.  While in Song Mode I add a track or two. I then have my foundation for what I wish to bring into Logic. Once in Logic I add further tracks but all sounds are based from the XS. I also do some minor tweaks to the midi that I’ve brought over from the XS in Logic. At some point I need to bring my keyboard to another studio which uses Cubase where I’ll bring in all the audio tracks via the FW port on the XS6.

Question: is it better to output a midi file from Logic and then bring it into Cubase OR get the final midi performance into the XS and then sync it with Cubase?

This is how I have everything set up:

Motif XS6 Sequencer setup (Song Mode)
- Local Control: off
- MIDI Sync: MIDI
- Sequencer control: in
- ARP MIDI Out Switch: all off
- Track Int Switch: all off
- Track Ext Switch all on
Utility Page/MIDI
- MIDI In/Out: “mLan” Selected
Utility Page/Remote
- DAW Type: “Logic” Selected
Utility Page/I/O
- Monitor Setup/mLAN Setuo: “with PC (Direct Monitoring)” Selected

Logic Setup
Synchronization/MIDI
MIDI Clock
- Transmit MIDI Clock/Destination 1 (Checked) “FireWire Motif XS6” Selected
- Destination 2 (not checked)
- Delay transmission by: 0 Ticks
MIDI Time Code (MTC)
- Transmit MTC (checked) “All” (Selected)
MIDI Machine Control (MMC)
- Transmit MMC (checked)
- Listen to MMC Input (not checked)
Synchronization/General
- Sync Mode “Internal” selected, Auto enable external sync (no checked)
- Frame Rate “25” fps selected, Auto detect format of MTC (checked)

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Posted on: November 01, 2011 @ 03:18 PM
motif8mine
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Total Posts:  1742
Joined  10-22-2004
status: Guru

I’m still fairly lost as it relates to what issue you were having importing. I’m also lost as to why is necessary to import into /Cubase if you have Logic (which is, while not a popular opinion on the site, a far better DAW) :)

Anyway, why spend the time in Logic if the end goal is the record in Cubase? Or, why not record the audio into Logic and import that into Cubase. I’ll have to check your setting later, I’m away from my XS at the moment…

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Posted on: November 03, 2011 @ 06:16 AM
dunai
Total Posts:  10
Joined  08-21-2005
status: Newcomer

“I’m also lost as to why is necessary to import into /Cubase if you have Logic (which is, while not a popular opinion on the site, a far better DAW) :)”

- I own Logic the studio has Cubase. I wish to use Logic to manipulate midi data. As you know it’s just easier than doing it strictly on the XS6.

“Anyway, why spend the time in Logic if the end goal is the record in Cubase? Or, why not record the audio into Logic and import that into Cubase. I’ll have to check your setting later, I’m away from my XS at the moment…”

- I could purchase Cubase, I guess that is a logical choice but based on what we’ve discussed I should be able to put together a solid work flow. I guess what ultimately worries me is that (and I know it’s not about the numbers/data it’s what you hear) my final creation that I hear at home should be exactly the same when I bring it into Cubase at the studio (I may have to make changes via the XS6 in the studio and take that back home for further tweaking)

So my question is how would you do it? Again just midi, I’m not recording any audio.

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Posted on: November 03, 2011 @ 07:36 AM
motif8mine
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Total Posts:  1742
Joined  10-22-2004
status: Guru

Ok, you’ve heard my admitted bias so, my answer is this- you must decide on your preferred workflow.

I prefer Logic so, I would record the audio into Logic and import that if necessary into Cubase (yikes!) :)

And I do that because I love Logic’s interface, effects and I would, more likely than not, have also recorded softwore instruments [i(primarily third party) as well. Further, I trust my ability to record / mix. The resultant audio tracks can easily be imported into any other DAW.

You are not recording audio so, it really doesn’t matter, I guess, whether you export the MIDI from the XS or Logic. One problem may lie in your frame rate setting. Any particular reason why you are at 25fps? Try either 30fps or 29.97fps

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Posted on: January 06, 2012 @ 05:47 AM
motif8mine
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Total Posts:  1742
Joined  10-22-2004
status: Guru

I think I’ve experienced what you are describing finally as I’ve been importing some MIDI files recently into my projects. It may be a bug but, I like this bug. Let me explain:

Logic’s timeline, for better or worse, by default begins with measure #1 as in my pic #1 below. Importing the MIDI file changed the timeline to begin @ 0, (which I prefer visually)- pic#2. The tracks were imported at measure 0. This may be occurring in your situation and would account for the ‘misalignment’ of the notes. I simply drag the imported regions to measure #1 and everything is good to go…

Image Attachments
Pic#1.pngPic#2.png
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Posted on: January 06, 2012 @ 05:54 AM
motif8mine
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Total Posts:  1742
Joined  10-22-2004
status: Guru

P.S.- by placing your cursor over the zero in the timeline and click-dragging to the right, you can return the timelime to it’s default position. (Note: all regions must begin on or after measure #1 for this to work)

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