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Viewing topic "what is the difference between styles in PSR3000 etc. and arpegiattor in MOX?"

   
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Posted on: October 13, 2011 @ 11:05 PM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

Hello everyone, its a first post

As a PSR3000 user, I found that using styles available on the PSR and on the net to be great for songwriting, just by playing around sometimes inspiration strikes, and i just transfer the midi files to my DAW (sonar) hook them to instruments etc. Sometimes the PSR3000 voices are good enough and there’s a great kick on one of the drums kits...However the song ideas have dried up, and I need new ideas..Is the MOX6 a good choice in this case, can one do chord changes like in the accomp mode of the PSR ,does it have a wider choice of backing styles, or would I be better off with another arranger? Your views are welcome as the MOX6 is a big investment for me..Does the arpegiattors in MOX == styles in PSR?
(I dont play live)

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 02:04 AM
maahou
Total Posts:  106
Joined  07-17-2011
status: Pro

Hi,

The concept of arpegiator is different of the Arranger’ style concept.

You have the chord (recognition) change like in the accomp mode of Arranger. There are different systems of recognition (one finger, multiple fingers, and other).

The main difference is that you will have to create your own style using arpeggiator: On motif MOX you will typically
- select an arp for a drum kit
- select an arp for a bass
- select an arp for a guitar

you will select the arp using the category search function, which indicate you what kind of arp you would like (d&b;, chillout, rock, pop, etc...)

you will previously have chosen the drum kit, the bass, and the guitar. You will be able to chose them among a great number of choices.

With this you have the basis. Now if you want a fill-in, a intro, a break, etc… you will have to assign an intro arp , a fill-in arp, a break arp for each of the instruments. (you have up to 6 variations on MOX for an arpeggio part).

When you have the instruments, and the arp (which means rythm and notes), you will have access to multiple parameters to get the kind of style you want.

For example, Velocity of guitar can be changed in real time, quantizing, swing, length of the notes (rate) ...

A style on PSR consist of several instruments (usually 3-10 i think). On MOX you will have a maximum of 3 instruments at a time for arpeggiator while you are playing.

Of course it’s possible to hear more than 3 instruments using sequencer integrated in the motif. You will have to record 3->3->3->… then listening the result.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 05:01 AM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

Hi, thanks for the reply,

Guess it will take some time before I get used to terms like arps,
performance etc, coming from the styles background where you get everything handed to you on a plate..

an arp is then a sequence of midi notes, which you can connect to any instrument and which you layer with other arps to make up a song..

A few questions:

(1) Does one have to create styles every time with these combination of arps, or does the MOX6 come preloaded with some.
I suppose I can save my created styles.

(2) 3->3-->3 means adding 3 arps then adding 3 over these making 6,
then 9 but up to how many arps can one layer?

(3) Can you add an arp from any category for example rock to an arp from another category e.g. blues,which could yield some interesting results.

(4) can you change the tempo of an arp making up a style individually ?

(5) Can one “connect” a bass arp for example to another instrument? Is an arp instrument-specific or can you use it as any other midi, with any sound..

(6) so what magic does YAMAHA sprinkle over these arps to make them in sync in a style? Does it adjust their tempos,length etc. to make them work together?

(7) Does an MOX gives a greater variety of song ideas than say a TYROS or the PSRs?

Hope i’m not asking too many questions, your help is much appreciated..

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 05:43 AM
maahou
Total Posts:  106
Joined  07-17-2011
status: Pro

(1) MOX come with preloaded. Combinaisons of 4 ‘instruments’ with a maximum of 3 arp at a time (for moX) is called a Performance. You have many from different styles which are included. You can save and create your own performances.

(2) you record 3 arps at a time on track 1,2,3 ; then you record a new time 3 other arps on track 4,5,6, etc..
But what you ‘record’ won’t be changed when you will use the button ‘play’ if you play chords with your left hand : you will have to record the chord progression.  it’s different from performance.

(3) everything is possible. you can have an arp ‘rock’ for the first instrument guitar, and an arp ‘blues’ for the second instrument bass, and an arp ‘techno’ for the drums, all playing at the same time.

(4) yes of course. there are many parameters.

(5) an arp can be used for all instruments. (instruments are called VOICE in motif).

(6) tempo is adjusted. You have parameters, like synchronize the change of arps variation to the next measure or in realtime for example.
You will have to test by yourself to find the good combination.

(7) like in (1) : there are several performances included, which you should hear. With Tyros or psr you can download paying styles made by professional for a particular song. With Motif, you don’t really have this service, as this is not the main aim (workstation). You create, or you ask from other users.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 08:09 AM
Bad_Mister
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Correction - there are a maximum of 4 PARTS to a PERFORMANCE, and each PART can have its own set of ARPEGGIOS - 4 ARPS simultaneously!

Call up PERFORMANCE: PRE1: 012(A12) Double Dip the Funk for an example.

(1) Does one have to create styles every time with these combination of arps, or does the MOX6 come preloaded with some.
I suppose I can save my created styles.

There are no STYLES, per se, in the MOX6. If you are coming from a PSR3000, we can understand how you see a certain similarity between a PERFORMANCE with multiple arps going and a PSR-Style. But you are dealing with the same company (Yamaha) and the terms are different because the concept is different. They are designed for different purposes. And therefore, behavior is different.

A PSR-Sytle has 8 PARTS. You can think of them as your chord-intelligent backing band (accompaniment).
Percussion = PART 9
Drums = PART 10
Bass = PART 11
Chord 1 = PART 12
Chord 2 = PART 13
Pad = PART 14
Phrase 1 = PART 15
Phrase 2 = PART 16

When you call up a STYLE, it is not only a pre-packaged group of individual musical phrases, they are already grouped by the genre of music. The way they behave in response to your input is more pre-detemined. Optimized for use ‘live’

A PERFORMANCE, which can be four VOICES each with an arpeggio, are a smaller ensemble so your control is more intimate. There are far less rules about what is expected to control an arp. The CHORD RULES will not always apply. If you continue to think of them as STYLES you may wind up being very frustrated. They do not have pre-determined sections, they do not have fill-in buttons that automatically transition, this is because they are not optimized for “live” performing as STYLES in a PSR, but are laid out here as compositional aides in very much a DO IT YOURSELF fashion. Not that you cannot use them LIVE - do not misunderstand me. It is simply a matter of focus. The ARPS are designed for the song writer in you - to increase the realism of guitars, basses, and other selected instrument phrases that might be useful. The arps are optimized to RECORD to the MOX sequencer. Typical use would be: you have a song your writing and want an authentic sounding guitar… you’ve played the drums, bass, and keyboard yourself, but are having a difficult time creating a convincing strummed guitar yourself. This is where the arps come in handy, you can use the over 1200 guitar arps to come up with something appropriate.

With DIRECT PERFORMANCE RECORD (on the MOX) you can record as many as FOUR (not 3) arps simultaneously to the sequencer. A great way to “JUMP-START” your musical composition!

Yes you can use them together style-like, but the concept was to help the composer.
In the PSR the content that makes up the various Styles are grouped. In the MOX the content that makes up the various arps are listed as individual phrases. This way you can easily mix and match an R&B;Drum arp with a Rock Bass, with a chord riff from a Techno groove.

(2) 3->3-->3 means adding 3 arps then adding 3 over these making 6,
then 9 but up to how many arps can one layer?

There are four arps that can be used simultaneously NOT 3. You can record them 1 at a time or 2 at time or 3 at a time or 4 at a time. Your choice, every track could originate as an arp. The limit is 4 simultaneously. There are far less rules than with STYLES (as you will find).

(3) Can you add an arp from any category for example rock to an arp from another category e.g. blues,which could yield some interesting results.

Not only CAN YOU, it is designed to do just such things!

(4) can you change the tempo of an arp making up a style individually ?

Arps play in tempo with the SONG or PATTERN. TEMPO can be increased or decreased by using the UNIT MULTIPLY function in the ARP EDIT parameters.

(5) Can one “connect” a bass arp for example to another instrument? Is an arp instrument-specific or can you use it as any other midi, with any sound.

Yes, of course. Arps can be routed out via MIDI and once you set this to MIDI OUT you can choose any MIDI channel on which to send the data

(6) so what magic does YAMAHA sprinkle over these arps to make them in sync in a style? Does it adjust their tempos,length etc. to make them work together?

Patented magic :-)

No just MIDI clock. And we do not use the word ‘style’ in the MOX. The timing and feel of the parts is adjustable (this is similar to the arrangers), in other words, you can adjust the swing, the timing, the duration, velocity, etc of how each phrase plays. The content is extensive and flexible

(7) Does an MOX gives a greater variety of song ideas than say a TYROS or the PSRs?

not sure what you mean by “song ideas”.

I hate to make broad generalizations because (arguably) there is lots of room in between:
but if you know 10,000 songs and you were looking for a keyboard… you could get the Tyros/PSR to perform those 10,000 songs much faster than you could with a MOX or Motif.

With an arranger workstation - choose the Style, finger the chords, play the melody
With a music production workstation - you get to construct the parts yourself because you are into writing your own music.

If you would rather role your sleeves up and do it yourself… welcome to the MOX, you’re the MOX customer.

Do not spend time trying to make the MOX a PSR3000 or vice versa. Not recommended. You will constantly be wondering why did they not do this, why did then not do that… try and get into the MOX with a fresh view, and try and see it from the perspective of DO IT YOURSELF, rather then PRE-ASSEMBLED.

Hope that helps.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 08:16 AM
maahou
Total Posts:  106
Joined  07-17-2011
status: Pro

Sorry for the ‘3’ instead of ‘4’ ;)

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 08:49 AM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

A few more and i’m done:

(1) I cant see myself (or others) switch from their usual DAW to CUBASE just to use the MOX. i LOVE sonar quirks and all and cakewalk really took the plunge to put out SONAR X1 . We have read that MOX is tightly integrated with CUBASE and works with SONAR and a few others.

so what is the difference in practice , or to put it bluntly what can we do with CUBASE that cant be done with SONAR?

(2) Can we use the MOX effects if we connect a guitar or mic to the MOX and then record the processed sound in the daw? with low latency?

(3) With the PSR, I can record the midi channels of a song stored on the PSR directly as it is being played to separate midi channels on the daw..and I know that if I replay the song later, it will play back the voices correctly..can I expect this with the MOX?

(4) and finally, can we have separate tracks with different effects settings just like VST, and put some of the effects processing load from my PC which is starting to feel the strain, to the MOX…

I downloaded the different MOX manuals and I felt just like the day when I opened a UNIX manual for the first time and fell on the page for AWK programming! Making music sure has changed..

Thanks again for taking the trouble to answer.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 11:10 AM
Bad_Mister
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(1) I cant see myself (or others) switch from their usual DAW to CUBASE just to use the MOX. i LOVE sonar quirks and all and cakewalk really took the plunge to put out SONAR X1 . We have read that MOX is tightly integrated with CUBASE and works with SONAR and a few others.

so what is the difference in practice , or to put it bluntly what can we do with CUBASE that cant be done with SONAR?

As they say in one of my favorites movies: “That’s not a ‘How’s the soup question.’”

You should use whatever DAW you are comfortable with, period.

Just because Yamaha and Steinberg have put together some very useful things, don’t let that throw you. It’s free, try it out yourself. If you do not find it compelling then, please by all means continue working with your favorite DAW. We are only trying to entice you to try it out - so, why not? Then you decide.

Currently, one thing that we can definitely tell you that you do not get is VST3 compatibility. This probably will eventually be implemented in Sonar. VST3 compatibility is necessary to run the MOX6/MOX8 EDITOR VST. But does not preclude you from running the Studio Manager version of the MOX6/MOX8 Editor along side your DAW.

But by all means you are free to use whatever you desire. We can (however) see you switching to Cubase but it is up to you, in the end. The MOX6/MOX8 has a DAW REMOTE template specifically for SONAR, and DP, Logic as well. We think you will find the experience working in your favorite DAW pretty cool, as well. We hope you find the degree of integration with Sonar to be pretty awesome, too.

(2) Can we use the MOX effects if we connect a guitar or mic to the MOX and then record the processed sound in the daw? with low latency?

With NO Latency, not low latency, NO latency. You monitor the guitar through the MO-X effects direct. the MO-X allows for direct monitoring of source material - when you work with hardware you do not have to monitor through (post) the DAW, you can monitor (the preferred way) direct. The routing bus for the A/D INPUT on the MO-X can use a dual Insertion Effect which gets printed to the audio track of your DAW.

(3) With the PSR, I can record the midi channels of a song stored on the PSR directly as it is being played to separate midi channels on the daw..and I know that if I replay the song later, it will play back the voices correctly..can I expect this with the MOX?

Forget the PSR, it is the best advice I can give you. The way the MO-X works is when you work with the internal sequencer - the SEQUENCER records the MIDI data, while the TONE GENERATOR stores the MIXING setup (all the voices, effects, volumes, pan position settings, etc., etc. etc.,) in an internal SONG MIXING or PATTERN MIXING location.

You can transfer the MIDI data (the sequencer track data) either by
1) Recording over in real time
2) Save it as a Standard MIDI File and open in your DAW

The TONE GENERATOR (SONG MIXING or PATTERN MIXING) setup is stored in the MO-X (where it belongs) - because ultimately you need to trigger the MOX to have the MIDI data sound. If you want to back that up as part of your DAW data… with Cubase (due to that “tight integration") the MO-X settings will automatically be bundled with the Cubase Project when you are running the MOX6/MOX8 Editor. And when you open the Cubase Project it will bulk the MIX data back to the MO-X.

If you are using a non-VST3 compatible DAW, then you must manually SAVE the Editor data in a separate file - simply keep it in the same folder as your DAW project file. Or if you are using SONAR you can simply us the Sonar SYSX recorder to receive a BULK DUMP of the MO-X MIXING setup data. This will link it with a Sonar song such that when you open the song it will bulk the MIX back to the MO-X tone engine

(4) and finally, can we have separate tracks with different effects settings just like VST, and put some of the effects processing load from my PC which is starting to feel the strain, to the MOX…

I want to say, not ‘just like VST’, I want to say better than like VST. The reason hardware+software method is so compelling is because you can with the MO-X workflow never run out of processing power, and never run out of polyphony… the computer can store your audio rendering of your synth and A/D INPUTS… You can process with hardware, which means you can monitor with no latency (direct); once you have printed a track as audio, you get to reallocate the power of your hardware - again, and again and again!

See the MO-X SUPPORT area for some basic getting started with AUDIO tutorial articles.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 12:26 PM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

First of all I want to thank you for the responses to each of my questions, never expected such a detailed response and on my first post too..

Its true that cakewalk are dragging their feet with VST3 support but they will have eventually to move with the flow or get left behind.

I’ll give CUBASE a try, just to use the VST3 features and one can do a LOT with 48 tracks,provided that the number of tracks is the only limitation from the full version.

Odds are that I’ll be soon be posting as an MOX6 owner up to my neck with arps,performances etc.

Thanks to maahou too..Cheers.

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 04:59 PM
Bad_Mister
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I’ll give CUBASE a try, just to use the VST3 features and one can do a LOT with 48 tracks,provided that the number of tracks is the only limitation from the full version.

No that is not the only “limitation from the full version"… depending on what full version you are talking about… the ‘unlimited tracks’ spec is there when you need it in the upper versions - and there is plenty more you get in the commercially available versions, plenty more!!! The full story can be had over at

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/cubase6_versions.html

Explore…

Comparison of commercially available Cubase 6-series

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Posted on: October 14, 2011 @ 09:20 PM
nauform
Total Posts:  122
Joined  06-16-2011
status: Pro

@leckj
IMHO MOX is not for you cause you want musical ideas but I think about 90% MOX was designed to ‘create sound and music’ from scratch. Did you write this?
However the song ideas have dried up, and I need new ideas

MOX is a ‘MUSIC PRODUCTION SYNTHESIZER’. Are you a music productor? A music productor has musical ideas. Do you like sound synthesis? MOX has a powerfull synth engine, 8 knobs to modify sounds in realtime, etc. Do you like sound manipulation or create sounds? If the answer to these questions is yes go for the MOX but if you are looking for musical ideas go for a better arranger or surf the web for software like this:
http://www.synthzone.com/midiaccomp.htm

Regards.

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Posted on: October 15, 2011 @ 06:19 AM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

Hi, thanks

I’ve been to the site and I must say that I impressed by ChordPulse [url=http://www.chordpulse.com/info.html] this is the exact colourfull user-friendly interface that’s missing from the arrangers. For example once you have played around and decided about the chord progression and the music style,it should just be a matter of assembling the song from the styles by choosing say 2 measures of rock style chord A, followed by 1/2 measure of chord B,then 2 measures of another style chord G etc,without having to play the song on the PSR. This would be so much faster and allow to experiment much more easily.There is such a sequencer of sorts on the PSR with a forbidding interface. Maybe something like that already exists on the MOX. Anyway one day all songs will be built this way on the PSRs!

About the other arrangers, I,ve got the feeling that YAMAHA have got something up their sleeves, and soon they will do just like the MOX and the XS, and will roll out an arranger with all the voices premium and otherwise and the styles from the TYROS 4,minus some features at one third of the price of the TYROS 4 so I don’t want to buy one right now..The top of the line PSR910 is due for replacement soon. Enough of my PSR fixation, this is the wrong forum....

So back to the MOX, I think i’ll go for it anyway,and see what happens, but I wont discard the PSR too soon. I’ve got a backlog of songs so I will see how the MOX can help with the arrangement and the voices. And i’ve got the feeling that new styles on new voices wont do it for me anymore, with the number of styles available from the net on my PSR,I have tried a lot,but that’s it. Really need a drastic change, and maybe the MOX will help. And I’ll definitely be looking into ChordPulse.

Regards.

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Posted on: October 15, 2011 @ 11:52 PM
nauform
Total Posts:  122
Joined  06-16-2011
status: Pro

Well, for several reasons many people use only the 10% of their MOX/Motif, perhaps MOX + Accompaniment & Style Software could be a good pair for you.

Good luck! ;)

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Posted on: November 26, 2011 @ 05:34 AM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

Well I bought it anyway, like i knew I would.

Just a few thoughts from a very satisfied PSR3000 owner making the switch to the MOX:

(1) The first point is not about music but how you cant access
the MOX directly from your PC to transfer midi files for any songs you happen to create and store on the MOX. You have to save it to a USB drive connected to the MOX,remove it plug it in your PC and plug it back again.If you are into editing songs a lot well...That does not seem important, but since I lost the USB port on my YAMAHA AW1600 DAW and had to resort to transfer files to and from it writing on CD ,I stopped using it altogether.
If someday the USB port on the MOX stops working… But I’m probably missing something,because transferring files from PC to the PSR3100 is so simple using the Musicsoft downloader software from YAMAHA.Cant see why they would take a step back.

(2) You dont have styles in the MOX so forget about the the 4 style variations which get progressively “hotter” with more intricate backing as you go from style 1 to style 4. In a way you can consider the Performances to be loosely like the PSR styles.
And you have only 4 voices in a Performance instead of 10-11 in the PSR styles. So its not as elaborate out of the box. But some of these Performances are so inspiring, and the effects on the voices can really transform them. And the MOX can do a LOT with 4 voices! And just by turning the jog wheel and changing the Arpeggio allocated to a voice you can transform a Performance which can seem to you to be going nowhere into something totally different. I know cos I just did it with the a Performance called ConcretePalaceAirman,which just morphed into something totally different that I have been looking for..Beginner’s luck.. Which brings us to..

(3) Saving a Performance is in fact OVERWRITING the performance,
Not saving it under a different name, but overwriting it. But I guess you can reset the factory Performances somewhere.And you cannot save a single Performance,you have to save the whole 256 of them in a single file.You can restore them singly though..Strange..

(4) If you are into writing songs or looking for inspiration,the Performances are really the key as they can match your song, or can inspire..Which is why I dont understand why YAMAHA or others are not building new ones and selling them..Until one gets close and personal to the arpeggios and there are lots of them and the names do not really give a clue about their nature, the performances are the real “eye openers” about what the MOX can do. Naming 7000 arpeggios is not something I would undertake myself but at least for the drum fills for example they could have added an “f_” somewhere in the name.

(5) Making the switch from an arranger to the MOX can be frustrating at times and you really have to accept that the MOX and the arrangers are different, so print the manuals, print bad_mister’s replies and bind them, and experiment.

(6) Will there be a tutorial about recording and playing back MIDI from a DAW which may NOT be Cubase as this is where things get difficult. In my case, although I have connected the DAW with MOX and even with the Editor, I cant seem to play different voices in each MIDI channel.

in the DAW I have 3 MIDI tracks

in each track I have the following choices for “INPUT”:

(1)
None,
All Inputs :Midi Omni,Midi Ch. 1,......Midi Ch. 16
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-1 : Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1,...Midi Ch. 16
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-2 : Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1,...Midi Ch. 16
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-3 : Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1,...Midi Ch. 16
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-4 : Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1,...Midi Ch. 16
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-5 : Midi Omni, Midi Ch. 1,...Midi Ch. 16

(2)
In each track I have the following choices for “OUTPUT TO”:
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-1
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-2
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-3
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-4
YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-5

(3)
In each track for “MIDI Channel”,

none,1:MOX,2:MOX,3:MOX,4:MOX,.....16:MOX

(4)

Then I have the “Bank =” with the following

Bank:..,0-GM,8064-PRE1,8065-PRE2...16256-DR:GM

(5)
Then i have “Patch:” containing the voices in the chosen bank
(from the MOX.ins)

For (1) I have chosen (for all 3 tracks):

YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8 Midi Ch. 1

For (2) for all 3 tracks:

YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-1

for (3)
1st Midi track: 1:MOX
2nd Midi Track: 2:MOX
3rd Midi Track: 3:MOX

I have set 3 different voices (Patch) in each channel.

When i playback on the DAW, only the track with the MIDI Channel = 1:MOX plays on the MOX6, the others do not make any sound although the meters on them are moving. If I set them all to 1:MOX they all play the same voice which seems to come from the 2nd Track.

What does omni stand for anyway? and all these channels and MOXs?
Why are there 5 MOXs? Maybe they are the 5 Ports, but what ARE ports for?

I have read the manuals as far as I can,but I would be grateful to have some help here.

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Posted on: November 26, 2011 @ 08:43 AM
Bad_Mister
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1) You are moving from a world of rigid rules (GM/XG) to one where the freedom of choice may sometimes make you scratch your head. Files you make on the MOX are not going to be compatible with your computer’s GM tone engine and are not going to really be played on anything but another MO-X. You’ll get used to this. Yes you shuttle your files to convenient USB drives, you’ll get use to this as well. In this world this is not seen as a step backward but allows for more freedom. (To be fair, as you go up the line to the Motif-series you do get the ability to transfer files directly to your computer by saving via Ethernet, even wirelessly. Also Cubase can open Motif-series files and extract the MIDI and AUDIO data) - sorry you do not get this functionality on the MO-X.

2) The focus of the Music Production synth is on music production, the focus of the Arranger is for one-man performance. You’ll get used to this as well.

3) In past Yamaha keyboards you could save individual files (as you propose). This was eventually done away with as the number of potential VOICES to be saved becomes unweildy. Why let users do what they think is a good idea when in reality it turns out not to be such a good idea. Say you save individual PERFORMANCES, how soon would you have too many files to manage? And how would you keep them interacting? The MOX keyboard has 384 VOICES and 256 PERFORMANCES saving individual programs gets silly really quickly, trust me.

What are you going to do, look through a list alphabetically? It’s great when you have only one or two, but by the time you have 100 you are screaming that this is just plain silly. Particularly with PERFORMANCES, as they can be made up of other USER data (which if not kept in the same file is a huge waste). As you start to understand the architecture better you will begin to appreciate WHY. Since you have never built a synth (presumption on my part) we recommend you leave this to Yamaha… they have plenty of T-shirts in the closet that say “#1 Synth Manufacturer”
:^)

Here’s how it works: SAVE ALL, then you can load any individual one from that file. Would you rather save 384 individual VOICE files and then for each PERFORMANCE - which potentially could have four USER Voice files? We think saving one ALL file with all of the data you need in it, including an interactive catalog… that will tell you that “this Performance uses an USER file” so that you can manually ensure the USER VOICE gets returned to the proper location!!! We think this is not only the way to go, but the smart way to go.

4) We don’t understand that you don’t *know* that Yamaha and others ARE making new data and there is tons of it. There are over 6700 arpeggios in your MOX (to be asking for more before you have even figured out that the ”F” in the name of an arp does indeed mean it is a fill-in) is fabulously, and frighteningly funny :-)

the two letter PREFIX is the key:
MA = MAIN section A
MB = MAIN section B a bit more busy than A
MC = MAIN section C a bit more busy than B
MD = MAIN section D a bit more busy than C

FA = FILL IN to A
FB = FILL IN to B
FC = FILL IN to C

I_ = Intro to A
E_ = Ending
B_ = Break

Because something is listed as a FILL-IN does not mean that you cannot use it as a MAIN section - if you so desire - remember the rules are not as strict!

Since you can create your own ARPEGGIO data using the MO-X Sequencer - and since any .MID file (any .MID file) can be the source of arpeggio data, you can make your own. Tired of the same 6,720 arpeggio that they gave you from the factory? Simply create your OWN!!!!
:^)

5) Viva la difference!!!

6) We highly recommend that you learn to use the MO-X before you branch out to any DAW, be it Cubase or any other. You will need to depend on the manual of your favorite DAW, for details - all DAWs have a similar connection situation. If you understand one you can generally find your way in another. If you can drive a Cadillac you drive a Volkswagen (pretty much).

unfortunately you never mention what DAW you are using… :-(

If you are using the Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver then you want to communicate with your computer on PORT 1 for musical communication both MIDI IN and MIDI OUT.

The EDITOR uses both PORT 1 for musical communication and PORT 4 for the the Editor.

PORT 2 is used for REMOTE control over Cubase, Sonar, Logic, or
Digital Performer

PORT 3 is the THRU port for interfacing one external piece of gear

PORT 5 is reserved for the REMOTE EDITOR (VSTi).

Hope that helps and hope you laughed :^)
Seriously: We can help you make that transition from ARRANGER World to MUSIC PRODUCTION World - word of recommendation: don’t spend too much time trying to make your MO-X an arranger. At Yamaha we KNOW what an arranger is, we sell more of them than anyone on the planet by a huge factor, trust us. We have taken some ideas from the ‘content’ provided in an arranger and have hopefully assembled it in a manner that services those interested in creating original music compositions. That was the plan anyway. The CONTENT is to help break “writer block”. The arpeggio’d PERFORMANCES are to create a rhythm section (not an entire accompaniment band) - ARPEGGIOS are easily adjustable in timing and feel, and are their to “jump start” the composition… they are designed to be recorded to the sequencer.

Whether you keep the data that they generate or you edit it or even redo it, is up to you. It is only there to provide inspiration. It is deemed far better than just playing with metronome (remember those days) building individual tracks with only a CLICK as your inspiration?

  [ Ignore ]  

Posted on: November 26, 2011 @ 11:37 AM
leckj
Total Posts:  16
Joined  10-13-2011
status: Regular

Thank you again for answering.

Well i never thought for an instant that these letters at the start of the arpeggios name had any meaning, because you see the same letters repeated over all types of arpeggios. How can one have a fill for a guitar part though, i’ll give them a good listen . Have I missed this on the manuals? it must be hidden somewhere.

As for the arpeggios, far from asking for more, I was just thinking that, after having played around with the MOX, that it has so much depth, that many users will probably never be able to use it to its fullest because it takes a lot of time to understand its nuances,know where the arps fit,how processing changes the voices,etc. Additional Performances will unearth those hidden gems and show users the way.  You dont know what you are missing until you know what you are missing,right? :-(

Besides there is one single performance for “country”.

I know that I would not mind purchasing Performances for Rock, Hard Rock etc, to get me up and running until I get to know the MOX better. But the loaded performances are pretty good (some are so good that they seem to play by themselves..) and i’ll take a bit more time to get what i want, but I’ll get there.

But before getting “there”, I need to connect my DAW (Sonar X1) with the MOX. There are some MIDI tracks that I want to send to the MOX, just to see if it works OK. I have already installed the USB driver, connected to the PC, I can see the MOX voices using the Editor and Studio Manager. The DAW can now use either the MOX audio interface or my usual M-AUDIO box. I have installed the MOX.ins file to the DAW. I have set each MIDI track to connect to a different voice.

To connect to the MOX, in all 3 MIDI tracks I have used the port 1 as the “OUTPUT TO” target i.e. YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-1. So that part seems to be correct.

For the “INPUT”, I have chosen Channel 1 for Port 1 in all 3 tracks (YAMAHA MOX6/MOX8-1 Midi Ch. 1 ). Maybe I should have chosen another channel or omni. I have tried switching to Channel 2,3 etc.,but still no change.

And in each midi track for “MIDI Channel” I have chosen a separate MIDI channel, namely 1:MOX, 2:MOX, 3:MOX which are the MIDI channels 1,2,3 (for Port 1 presumably).

The problem is that I am hearing only the sounds in the MOX,for MIDI tracks where the midi channel is set to 1:MOX. If i set all the MIDI tracks to 1:MOX, then they all play but they all use the same voice.

I have been using this type of connection to play or record MIDI tracks from the PSR3000 to the DAW. I used the MIDI data as the basis for my songs.

So I cant figure out why the setup is not working. And as MIDI is how I work, I am well and truly stuck. Could be there is a configuration setting that is required on the MOX.

Any help would be much appreciated.

  [ Ignore ]  


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