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Viewing topic "Man Yamaha need a new Motif or something to come out"

   
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Posted on: August 16, 2011 @ 08:05 PM
videorov
Total Posts:  30
Joined  12-13-2010
status: Regular

With all the new stuff out Kronos,Jupiter 80, PA3X all with
touch screens and some with full super expressivity.
Yamaha is going to get behind if they don’t get moving.
I see many of the new PA3X being sold all over thw world
on Youtube.

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Posted on: August 16, 2011 @ 09:04 PM
miden
Total Posts:  610
Joined  09-22-2005
status: Guru

hmmmm, I think I need to disagree. I actually gave up the PA3x for the Motif XF!!

Good move too I think!! It sounds so much better, to me anyway!!

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Posted on: August 16, 2011 @ 09:23 PM
Jose Aldo Nova
Total Posts:  41
Joined  03-17-2011
status: Regular
videorov - 16 August 2011 08:05 PM

With all the new stuff out Kronos,Jupiter 80, PA3X all with
touch screens and some with full super expressivity.
Yamaha is going to get behind if they don’t get moving.
I see many of the new PA3X being sold all over thw world
on Youtube.

Does a touch screen improve sound quality? :)

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Posted on: August 16, 2011 @ 10:33 PM
videorov
Total Posts:  30
Joined  12-13-2010
status: Regular

Oh well some people get left behind. Thats what people said about tablet computers now look what happened.  Much easier to get around through the menus.The sounds on the Kronos blows everything away with the new solidstate drive for huge sound files.

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Posted on: August 16, 2011 @ 10:49 PM
worknman
Total Posts:  128
Joined  08-19-2010
status: Pro

Screw the touch screen… I’ve played with them on Korgs, and I’m not a fan. I’d much rather have mouse support like the Fantom G, along with video out!!

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Posted on: August 17, 2011 @ 02:59 AM
motifiert
Total Posts:  22
Joined  01-08-2011
status: Regular

For me, the flash option of the XF is more useful than the Kronos SSD. 2 GB instatly available user samples are better than ??GB of samples that must be loaded to RAM before you can use it. I think the Kronos can only stream preset samples from SSD, not user samples. Somebody prove me wrong?

Also, I prefer a so called rompler (better: RAMpler) to virtual instruments, because many different virtual instruments are confusing if you want to program your own sounds.

The “Expanded Articulation” (XA) is a really nice feature that can be as good as Roland’s “Supernatural” technology. It’s just a little sad that BOTH, Roland and Yamaha only have a few voices using these possibilities in their flagships.

I’m happy with the RAMpler XA concept of the Motif. The only thing I really miss are 9 organ drawbars and a good leslie with a better, at least usable overdrive. (Even the Fantom X had better overdrive/distortion FX… This also affects distorted guitar voices.) Concerning organs the Kronos, Jupiter-80 and PA3X are all better than the Motif XF. That’s why I cannot sell my VK-8M module.

But I don’t need an oversized screen. And NO fan, please!

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Posted on: August 17, 2011 @ 03:26 AM
Faethon
Total Posts:  38
Joined  12-31-2009
status: Regular

For me there is one major flaw in the motif synths.There are only 16 tracks for the sequencer.There should be at least 32 + 8 audio tracks.This is supposed to be a workstation where you can compose serious music.16 tracks are not enough for serious music nowadays.Come on.I hope in the next flagship workstation, Yamaha provides 32 midi tracks plus 16 audio tracks plus an internal hard drive up to 1 terrabyte.Lets get serious…

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Posted on: August 17, 2011 @ 04:23 AM
valmundo
Total Posts:  195
Joined  07-02-2005
status: Pro

I think the Kronos has better EP sounds and their synths are expressive, but their guitars, electric basses, and woodwind instruments are not as good as the Motif.

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Posted on: August 18, 2011 @ 01:17 PM
kgriceproductions
Avatar
Total Posts:  103
Joined  12-05-2010
status: Pro
Faethon - 17 August 2011 03:26 AM

For me there is one major flaw in the motif synths.There are only 16 tracks for the sequencer.There should be at least 32 + 8 audio tracks.This is supposed to be a workstation where you can compose serious music.16 tracks are not enough for serious music nowadays.Come on.I hope in the next flagship workstation, Yamaha provides 32 midi tracks plus 16 audio tracks plus an internal hard drive up to 1 terrabyte.Lets get serious…

I doubt many people will need that many tracks live.  And in the studio most people will mixdown to a DAW anyway where you have unlimited tracks and more control than any hardware workstation.

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Posted on: August 18, 2011 @ 03:37 PM
mrdelurk
Avatar
Total Posts:  97
Joined  09-18-2009
status: Experienced

A solid state drive is nice and dandy, but keep in mind, that solid state memory has an even shorter life span than an “old school” HD.

Some people buy a synth because it will outlive a computer by a factor of 6. Building consumer-grade computer components into it (Music Computing StudioBlade style) is a great way to defeat this.

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Posted on: August 18, 2011 @ 04:02 PM
DavePolich
Total Posts:  6681
Joined  07-27-2002
status: Guru

The amount of user RAM available in a stock Kronos, shipped from the factory, is about 148MB - according to Korg’s own statement on their
website:

The memory available for RAM samples will change based on the use of Expansion PCM libraries. About 148MB is available when shipped from the factory (when loading the file named “PRELOAD.KSC”).

The SSD drive on the Kronos cannot load user samples at this time.

In contrast, the Motif XF ships with 128MB User RAM as stock, and you
have the option to install up to 2GB of flashboards, all of which is
available for user samples.

So in the area of user RAM and flashboards on the Motif XF, versus user RAM and SSD drive on the Kronos, the Motif XF comes out ahead.

Motif XF - more third-party libraries available than any other current
workstation. Kronos - ZERO third-party libraries available. So in this area, Motif XF wins.

Kronos has several synth engines and sample-playback engine plus DSP available.
Motif XF has sample-playback engine plus DSP available.
So in the “available synth engines” department - Kronos wins.

Polyphony - in the Kronos, polyphony is shared depending on how many
synth engines you are using. Motif XF - all polyphony is allocated to
one engine. So the Kronos and Motif XF end up being about equal in this
area.

Sequencer/audio tracks - the Korg Kronos has 16 MIDI tracks + 16 audio tracks available. Then Motif XF offers 16 tracks + integrated sampling (meaning you can sample something and then trigger it via one of the
16 MIDI tracks). At first it looks like the Kronos wins. But keep in mind that the maximum length of recording time for one mono audio file is 80 minutes, or 40 minutes for one stereo track, on the Kronos hard disk. This means that realistically, you can have around 8 stereo tracks and 16 mono tracks for a four-minute song, give or take. And that is just one song. You certainly can’t record two four-miute songs with that many tracks, you’ll run out of hard drive space. So would I, personally, record an entire album on the Kronos? No.

Regarding the sequencer/audio tracks situation - seriously, all major
audio production these days is done on computer DAW’s (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, Sonar, etc.). Really, it is. Did I just say it is all done on computer DAW’s? Let me say it again, just for clarification. As powerful as the Motif (or the Kronos, or the Jupiter-80) is, let me be straight - no one does an entire album on any of them. The keyboard workstations are used as controllers and sound sources. Sequencing and audio tracks are done on the computer.

Here’s the breakdown -

Audio production, playback for “superstar” tours - Pro Tools is the primary DAW in use.

Film/television scoring - Digital Performer is the primary DAW used.

European audio production - Logic and Cubase are the primary DAW’s used.

Note that primary does not mean “only”. You can find any of the DAW’s - Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer, and Sonar - in use
in any of the above listed production situations.

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Posted on: August 18, 2011 @ 04:32 PM
g.nieddu
Total Posts:  184
Joined  02-14-2009
status: Pro
DavePolich - 18 August 2011 04:02 PM

The amount of user RAM available in a stock Kronos, shipped from the factory, is about 148MB - according to Korg’s own statement on their
website:

The memory available for RAM samples will change based on the use of Expansion PCM libraries. About 148MB is available when shipped from the factory (when loading the file named “PRELOAD.KSC”).

The SSD drive on the Kronos cannot load user samples at this time.

In contrast, the Motif XF ships with 128MB User RAM as stock, and you
have the option to install up to 2GB of flashboards, all of which is
available for user samples.

So in the area of user RAM and flashboards on the Motif XF, versus user RAM and SSD drive on the Kronos, the Motif XF comes out ahead.

Motif XF - more third-party libraries available than any other current
workstation. Kronos - ZERO third-party libraries available.

Regarding the sequencer/audio tracks situation - seriously, all major
audio production these days is done on computer DAW’s (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, Sonar, etc.). Really, it is. Did I just say it is all done on computer DAW’s? Let me say it again, just for clarification. As powerful as the Motif (or the Kronos, or the Jupiter-80) is, let me be straight - no one does an entire album on any of them. The keyboard workstations are used as controllers and sound sources. Sequencing and audio tracks are done on the computer.

Here’s the breakdown -

Audio production, playback for “superstar” tours - Pro Tools is the
DAW usually in use.

Film/television scoring - Digital Performer is the primary DAW used.

European audio production - Logic and Cubase are the primary DAW’s used.

I agree, but a lot of buyers should like to be sure to have done the best buy… You’re right, and if we would be sincere much people is not interested in how an instrument sounds but in its technology. I personally prefer to chose an instrument by its sounds, and after by its playability. Touchscreens are not the answer to all problems, but I think Yamaha could give us much than what we have at now.
If we are speaking about sound engines, it’s true that Motif XS/XF have not a virtual analog or phisycal modelling, but we have also to think that these kind of features need an excellent user interface; and that a lot of powerfull keyboards (Kurzweil, Kawai K5000, Yamaha FM series) often are not fully programmed by users.
To me an interesting challenge could be think a new user interface, and so a new way to use actual features.

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Posted on: August 18, 2011 @ 08:39 PM
Bad_Mister
Avatar
Total Posts:  36648
Joined  07-30-2002
status: Moderator

If we are speaking about sound engines, it’s true that Motif XS/XF have not a virtual analog or phisycal modelling, but we have also to think that these kind of features need an excellent user interface; and that a lot of powerfull keyboards (Kurzweil, Kawai K5000, Yamaha FM series) often are not fully programmed by users.
To me an interesting challenge could be think a new user interface, and so a new way to use actual features.

To say there is no physical modeling in the Motif XF is simply not true. Even if you cannot hear well, you have to know that VCM (Virtual Circuitry Modeling) is true physical modeling. And by true physical modeling we mean it is done through actual mathematically computations. If you have not read about VCM technology (responsible for many of the Insertion Effects in the Motif XS and XF) you are not up on the buzz in the audio industry. 

Rupert Neve and VCM technology

If you are not familiar with Mr. Neve, you need to do some research… or ask around. His new plug-ins work with the same technology you find creating many of the top shelf effect types found in the Motif XS, XF, MO-X, and S90XS/S70XS. What ever the VCM technology is asked to do _ it is physical models of the components and circuitry of classic analog devices _ and it faithfully recreates the exact sound quality found in the devices it is emulating.

In the coming months we plan to have some more in depth looks at some of the VCM processors you find resident in the Yamaha synthesizers. And while they are not the new NEVE designs, the new NEVE items are based on the same component modeling technology that you already own (and quite possibly have been oblivious to or have yet to explore!)

And as far as a “new interface”, if you have not yet downloaded and tried the iPAD Apps you have not yet discovered the already released “new interface”. Not only controls that you already have ported to a wireless touch screen interface, but new and innovative ways to apply control over your sound!!!

One who is only impressed by something “NEW"… usually don’t get too deep into things. I’m only really impressed once something is proven… and I judge with my ears (and experience). I recommend this as a tactic and rule to live by… MHO

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Posted on: August 19, 2011 @ 02:44 AM
g.nieddu
Total Posts:  184
Joined  02-14-2009
status: Pro
Bad_Mister - 18 August 2011 08:39 PM

If we are speaking about sound engines, it’s true that Motif XS/XF have not a virtual analog or phisycal modelling, but we have also to think that these kind of features need an excellent user interface; and that a lot of powerfull keyboards (Kurzweil, Kawai K5000, Yamaha FM series) often are not fully programmed by users.
To me an interesting challenge could be think a new user interface, and so a new way to use actual features.

To say there is no physical modeling in the Motif XF is simply not true. Even if you cannot hear well, you have to know that VCM (Virtual Circuitry Modeling) is true physical modeling. And by true physical modeling we mean it is done through actual mathematically computations. If you have not read about VCM technology (responsible for many of the Insertion Effects in the Motif XS and XF) you are not up on the buzz in the audio industry. 

Rupert Neve and VCM technology

If you are not familiar with Mr. Neve, you need to do some research… or ask around. His new plug-ins work with the same technology you find creating many of the top shelf effect types found in the Motif XS, XF, MO-X, and S90XS/S70XS. What ever the VCM technology is asked to do _ it is physical models of the components and circuitry of classic analog devices _ and it faithfully recreates the exact sound quality found in the devices it is emulating.

In the coming months we plan to have some more in depth looks at some of the VCM processors you find resident in the Yamaha synthesizers. And while they are not the new NEVE designs, the new NEVE items are based on the same component modeling technology that you already own (and quite possibly have been oblivious to or have yet to explore!)

And as far as a “new interface”, if you have not yet downloaded and tried the iPAD Apps you have not yet discovered the already released “new interface”. Not only controls that you already have ported to a wireless touch screen interface, but new and innovative ways to apply control over your sound!!!

One who is only impressed by something “NEW"… usually don’t get too deep into things. I’m only really impressed once something is proven… and I judge with my ears (and experience). I recommend this as a tactic and rule to live by… MHO

As always you’re right, but I was speaking about oscillators, VCM technology and its quality pushed me to buy my XS… About interface I’d like to try new iPad apps (but I haven’t an iPad), and (again) you’re right, this could be the new GUI we need, simple and contestual. You make me imagine what means having XS/XF power under full touch GUI control…

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Posted on: August 19, 2011 @ 04:40 AM
hasseg1
Total Posts:  34
Joined  08-07-2010
status: Regular

I have recently bought two of the iPad apps and they are really great. But...why not make just one (maybee more expensive) app so that you don’t have to switch between different apps. I mean, sometimes you would like to switch from performance control to do a quick edit on some of the voices or try a new arp. I think that is what it takes to make this (these) apps a real success. I found myself going back to the smaller display on my MOX because I need to more than what is in one particular app.

Best regards
Hans

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Posted on: August 21, 2011 @ 03:14 AM
mrdelurk
Avatar
Total Posts:  97
Joined  09-18-2009
status: Experienced

A word from the trenches, I got my hands on a Kronos the first time today. First impression: the GUI is so @#$% cluttered, the first time in 20 years of using Korgs I’m in front of one and can’t even tell how to get to the Grand Piano patch.

After 5 minutes of pushing the wrong things, I ended up at the German Grand somehow. Another 5 minutes, and I finally figured out how to change its parameters. (Push the parameter name, not the value field. Perhaps the touch screen was misaligned.) Time to test how far into surreal I can push the sound in the direction I want to go with all these new parameters. This is what I came to the store for to really discover.

Answer: not very far. My age-old Korg Triton still has a better surreal piano combi. We reached an age when a well-voiced old synth can outsound a shiny newcomer. All in all, as a XS8 and a MOX8 owner, I’d say the Kronos *might* have more bells and whistles than either Yamahas, but in terms of sheer fun of use, the MOX8 dusts both flagship synths. OK, so the MOX doesn’t have a timbre with Chick Corea in its name (I think) if you are into toolmateship. So what… name any keyboard Chick never had three of. Maybe an Obersoniq Futzcrumplator, but even that, I wouldn’t bet. :-)

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