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kjav
Total Posts: 4
Joined 12-24-2010 status: Newcomer |
I’ve been working with my XS6 as a stand alone machine for a while now and trying to figure a work flow that works for me. Here is my situation and reasoning, hoping for some suggestions. Note: In this post I am NOT asking how to record ARP data, rather, how to record simply whether or not the ARP master switch is turned on or off, and which of the 5 ARP parts is selected, and the changes to those as the song is recorded. I don’t read or remember music very well. I usually call up a voice or performance and just play the keys, slowing working out the chords and rhythm. Often I’ll play something cool by mistake. Once I work something out, and try to record it into the on-board sequencer as a song or pattern, start the tick-in and attempt to re-play what I’d done, I end up doing take after take after… you get the idea. I guess I get some stage fright or something trying to exactly record something right on the beats. When I just improvise, I don’t really know how long a phrase may be, how many bars or beats, etc, I just play the keys with some rhythm and sometimes I get lucky and it sounds good. I also use the arps a lot. I’ll often turn the main ARP switch on and off, and will click through the different arp’s while I play (the 5 keys right under the display, allowing to quickly select something that sounds like a lead in, a verse, etc). This usually sounds pretty good. I get in a groove, I’m not constantly starting and stopping a sequencer - I’m just making sounds, but they are not recorded in any way. Ideally, I want to run a single long song or track that would record all my button presses, particularly, my changes to what voice or performance I have selected, and most importantly, whether or not the ARP switch is turned on or which of the 5 arp parts I have selected. I understand I can record all of this as a long string in song mode. In theory, I can go back over that song in the internal sequencer and cut and slice as needed to isolate the parts that sounded great (stuff I may have played almost by mistake) and stack these parts together to create a final composition. I find that clicking around editing note data inside the on-board sequencer is a bit cumbersome. I would really like to do this part while looking at a track on computer screen using a DAW and a mouse. It’s just my preference. I have tried the following and had a problem: I call up a performance, and start Logic recording a track. Logic records my key presses of the music keys, any pan/attack/etc changes made along the way, etc. It does not however record whether or not the ARP master switch is turned on or off and it does not record if I’ve selected a different ARP part on the fly with one of the 5 keys under the display. If I re-play the recorded track from Logic and I manually set the ARP switch and parts to the same as when I recorded them, then the re-played performance sounds fine (as expected as Logic is just re-producing my black and white key presses which in turn causes the ARP to run as it did when I recorded the original track). However, as I often want to switch between arps or turn the arp on and off, I would need to do this manually as the track is re-played. I plan to use my XS together with some other gear (an MPC, some software instruments, etc). I know I can theoretically do much of the stuff of the MPC in the XS, but it’s a long way around and I’m comfortable with the MPC. I may for example have a beat w/ some samples made and running on the MPC and I want to play other parts over top of it using the awesome voices and arp styles of the XS. In the final comp, the DAW will control both the MPC and XS which will eventually be mixed into different captured audio tracks and boiled into a final mix-down for the final song. This is only possible if I can control the arp parts from a track in the DAW so the XS always plays the right ARP part for that part of the song, etc. Up until now, I’ve been using regular MIDI cables and an M-Audio MIDI interface and Logic 9, which works great for simple sequencing. I can’t see the activity light on the interface blink when I change the ARP part or turn the master ARP switch on or off, which tells me the XS is not sending this data (when I tap a music key, move a slider, change to a different voice, etc the activity light on my interface does flash so the XS was obviously sending the data, which btw, does get recorded with the Logic sequence if recording). continued.... |
kjav
Total Posts: 4
Joined 12-24-2010 status: Newcomer |
continued… Years ago I had a very frustrating experience with the Cubase bundled with my old MO-6, so I haven’t gotten back into using Cubase, but I have done a ton of reading on the integration between Cubase and the XS. I’d consider using either the Cubase AI that came with the board or possibly the new Cubase 5 Essentials, but I want to make sure I can accomplish this before digging in and possibly getting real frustrated again. Let me ask these specific questions. I’m hoping Bad_Mister or others can answer this directly and provide any caveats I need to be wary of: 1) If I use the quick record feature of the XS to quickly record a performance to Song mode using the on-board sequencer - I hit record from Performance mode, set the options in the dialog, then hit play to start the count-in and recording. Now let’s say I play some notes with the ARP master off, then along the way, I turn the ARP master on, then switch between the 5 arp parts w/ buttons under the display while playing, perhaps with pauses between changes as I work out the sounds and exact chords I’m trying to hit. Maybe I try to work out a rhythm a few times, etc. First, are those changes to the ARP recorded to the on-board sequencer? I assume they are. Now let’s say I save the completed song which may be an hour long (an hour of messing around and playing random stuff, switching ARP on and off, etc). Let’s say I save this as an ALL data file as noted in other posts, then I import this file into Cubase. Then I turn off the XS, and come back the next day, turn it on, and play that imported file from Cubase. Will the XS automatically play the correct performance, and will it also switch the master ARP key on and off and select between the 5 ARP parts exactly as I did during the previous recording session? If this is possible, then I think I’m all set - I just need to use Cubase instead of Logic, which for now, I’m okay with if it means I can work more comfortably. 2) Can I just record the above (including arp switch changes and possibly even program changes) straight to Cubase using the DAW Remote control and audio integration functions between Cubase and the XS? I’m not going to try and run some tracks from the DAW and some from the on-board sequencer as some other posts have asked - I’ll go all one way or the other, but for this situation, it would be cool to just record the whole everything right to Cubase as I improvise, then turn to the computer screen after the session and cut and slice as needed. 3) Is the ARP switch change only transmitted via a USB based MIDI connection, but it is not transmitted using standard MIDI cables? Is this perhaps my problem? I looked in the programming manual w/ all the MIDI codes that came with the XS, and it looks like there is a code referenced for setting ARP switch positions, which is why I was frustrated that they weren’t recorded. I have checked Logic in depth to make sure it is not filtering any data and it is recording all received data. It appears it is from what I can tell, I think it’s more a case of the XS not sending the data. I see it constantly noted that the on-board sequencer should always be used for this kind of thing, which makes sense, and there are technically job functions that can do just about all the editing you would on a DAW from inside the machine, but I just find it cumbersome to do this when I can easily scroll through a long play session on a computer screen, chop out the junk and keep the phrases that worked for me - then I can set the in and out notes of those exactly to the beats, delete out errant note presses, etc. For those who can easily re-produce their playing nearly on-beat to bang out phrases to a pattern, I see the on-board sequencer as being very useful for this and I’ll continue to explore it, but for now, I’m just not that consistent or practiced. Any guidance is much appreciated. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to try to explain situation and reasoning as clearly as possible. Thanks! |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
Short answer: No. Let me explain how the arp and arp record works - the goal, and why it works the way it does. The documenting of the ARPEGGIO ON/OFF button is exactly what the direct record function is eliminating. Here’s what I mean: When you are are using the Motif XS sequencer to record, it can record either you playing the keys directly (normal record) or it can record the output of the arpeggiator (ARP ON), on a PART by PART basis. When a PART is under your direct control, then it will output the notes you trigger on the keyboard and these will be documented in the sequence Track data. If the PART is under control of one of the four arpeggiators, then when ARP = ON, it follows the instructions and records the OUTPUT of the arpeggiator. This is exactly what it should do. When you playback what you recorded, the data you hear will be exactly what you executed. What does not get documented is the status of the ARPEGGIO ON/OFF button, nor does the sequencer document which [SF] button is pressed… after all, who cares, at that point? The important thing is, it records and documents what you heard. You asked if you can start playing with ARP = OFF (normal play) and record what you are playing, then switch the ARP ON at some point… well, yes you can. This is where one of the improvements in the XF is really important. On the XS if the ARP is OFF, then any sound that is assigned to an arp will play. The XF has a new PART parameter (called ARP PLAY ONLY) that when set ON will keep this sound silent unless the arp is playing it. On the XS, you will manually have to use the PART MUTE button to keep the PART for playing normally. However, when you play this back, the only way you will know that ARP was switched ON is how it sounds. The arpeggiator’s data gets recorded to the track. This is exactly what it was designed to do… and is a fundamental difference between an arranger’s STYLE and an Arpeggiator. With an arranger, you can press the SECTION buttons and the fill-in buttons and what gets recorded is you pressing the Section buttons and the fill-in buttons… that is not what happens here. You are pressing the [SF] buttons but instead of just documenting those buttons getting pressed, the XS’s sequencer is actually recording the MIDI data generated by the arpeggiators in response to those [SF] and ARP ON/OFF button presses. So the way to understand this is based in signal flow: The arpeggiator can receive note-on data from the XS keybed, or coming in via MIDI from an external device. It does not respond to MIDI events on a track of the sequencer. This is consistent with the fact that MIDI data generated by the arpeggiator can be recorded to the internal sequencer and/or it can be routed OUT via MIDI. Data on a sequencer track cannot trigger the arpeggiator. This was implemented to facilitate direct Performance Record… The concept was to record the output of the arpeggiator to a track and allow the user to edit that data. the concept was to “print” that data to a track. Rather than just have the pattern data play “live” as with a PSR STYLE. When working with a PSR type keyboard, the backing tracks, which usually consist of a Percussion part, a Drum part, a Bass part, a chordal rhythmic part, etc. having a MAIN A, MAIN B, MAIN C, etc, section, and a few Fill-in patterns… when you record there it simply documents when you press the buttons (so when you play it back you can actually see the buttons execute when they were pressed)… then the record function is mainly for what you play in your right hand. (Now some arrangers are able to record all the data, but the basic PSRs only document the button presses). The XS was designed to actually print the arp pattern data as events to the tracks - each by each. Hope that helps. Sorry if this is a negative your workflow, but the XS simply does not work like you are envisioning.
Yes, it is much easier to record the Motif XS arpeggiators to the Motif XS sequencer. We recommend that work more with the sequencer so that it becomes less cumbersome to “chop out the junk”. Trust us, you can become just as adept using the XS sequencer as you could with any DAW.
Tools you will want to begin using are:
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kjav
Total Posts: 4
Joined 12-24-2010 status: Newcomer |
Much thanks Bad_Mister. That actually clears up a ton of confusion - I didn’t know the sequencer was always recording the output of the arp - I figured it was just recording the status of the switch and which part was set. In the next day or two I hope to play with reading the on-board sequencer directly with Cubase and seeing if everything still jives. I also did much more with song mode in testing this than I had before. I thought song mode required you to define a length and a bunch more parameters, but letting it just free run was great. (I’ve always played in the pattern mode before because I knew I wanted to record specific sections then stack them into song mode. Pattern was a bit harder because it’s hard to tell how many bars you’ll put down when just ad lib playing). Anyway, very much appreciate the great answer. Moving forward now. -k |