I am a little confused by some of the posts.  If there are samples on the flash drive.  And you want to call up a patch - how long does it take to be able to play that patch?  Is there a delay?  Or is the delay I read about have to do with loading the samples onto the flash drive at the beginning and not have to do with the later playing of them from time to time?

Loading a voice’s waveforms in to the flash board the FIRST time will take several minutes.  BUT… once it is loaded in to flash the hard work is done as the voices are now loaded and waiting for you everytime you turn on the XF.  So… from that point forward every time you call up that voice it will be loaded instantly… just as if you were calling up a voice from one of the preset banks!

I was hoping that was the case.  I read a post that confused me on this.  This is great news.  I cannot wait to get an XF.
Best,
AB

Jive Talking Robot - 15 October 2010 12:10 PM

Loading a voice’s waveforms in to the flash board the FIRST time will take several minutes.  BUT… once it is loaded in to flash the hard work is done as the voices are now loaded and waiting for you everytime you turn on the XF.  So… from that point forward every time you call up that voice it will be loaded instantly… just as if you were calling up a voice from one of the preset banks!

People get voices and waves confused. A voice is made up of elements or waves. What you are loading into the Flash is a wave. The voices call up or link to the waves that you have to make a voice. From top to bottom here is what it looks like:

Performances Have Multiple Voices
Voices are made up of Waves
Waves are made up of bunch of mapped and velocity switched samples

You are loading Waves into the Flash!

People get voices and waves confused. A voice is made up of elements or waves. What you are loading into the Flash is a wave. The voices call up or link to the waves that you have to make a voice. From top to bottom here is what it looks like:

Performances Have Multiple Voices
Voices are made up of Waves
Waves are made up of bunch of mapped and velocity switched samples

You are loading Waves into the Flash!

Sorry, we know this is complex but this is not exactly correct either.
We will post a rather complete glossary so that those that really want to get their heads around it, can.

Here is where the confusion often comes about… there is common speech, that can be used to generally describe something and then there is the technical definition.

A Sample is digital audio data, made by directly recording a signal, such as that of vocals or electric guitar, to the MOTIF XF. Throughout the Owner’s and Reference Manuals, the words “Sample” and “Wave” are sometimes used interchangeably; however, you should be careful to distinguish between “Wave” (raw audio data) and “Waveform” (collected audio data used to make up a Voice). Samples can be obtained into the instrument via the following methods:

· Recording audio signal in the Integrated Sampling mode
· Loading a WAV file or AIFF file from a USB storage device connected to the MOTIF XF in the File mode
· Loading a WAV file or AIFF file from a hard disk connected to the (Ethernet) network to which the MOTIF XF is connected.

Translation: In Yamaha-speak a WAVEFORM is more than just the sampled audio. It also includes important data that the Motif XF uses to address the audio as a musically useful item. This important data includes a Waveform number, a set of parameters that determine where on the keyboard it will be mapped and to what velocities it will respond. Also very important is from what point does the audio playback START, END and/or LOOP. Others Waveform parameters include play direction, “one shot”, “reverse”, “loop”, Volume, Pan position and Coarse/Fine tuning. The thing to realize in any discussion about the FLASH memory is that a WAVEFORM is more than just the sample data. The sample data itself, we know, uses up the lion’s share of memory. After all, all the other parameters that define the WAVEFORM, combined, can fit on the head of pin, in comparison to the actual audio of the sample, which can be huge. But without these proprietary and defining ‘other’ parameters, the audio would not be musically useful within the Motif XF synthesizer.

The ‘sample’ or ‘wave’, after all can be played on your computer as raw audio, but it is not a Motif XF, musically useful, entity yet. Take a raw bit of audio, dress it up with a basic set of Motif XF parameters and you have defined a WAVEFORM. It is the WAVEFORM data (parameters + the audio) that is transferred to the FLASH BOARDS.

A Waveform is like a “container” that can have as few as one and as many as 128 samples in it. A Motif XF Waveform is a multi-sample.

There are 3977 Waveforms burned into ROM on the Motif XF. These are multi-samples that can be used in the construction of VOICES. A Voice is yet another level up the chain.

We will be posting a glossary of terms so you can (hopefully) get this all clear in your head. It can only help the overall understanding of the XF.

A ‘sample’ or ‘wave’ (raw audio) is mapped to a “Keybank”.
A “Keybank” is how the audio is mapped horizontally across the keyboard, and vertically in terms of velocity.

As few as one and as many as 128 Keybanks make up a “Waveform”
A Waveform can be selected for use in a VOICE as an “ELEMENT”.
A Motif XF Voice can have 8 ELEMENTS.

Element parameters are those that further define how the data is used. They include things like pitch, filter, and amplitude generators, Low Frequency Oscillators, an Equalizer, etc., etc.

The Elements can be combined in a VOICE… VOICE parameters are those you find in COMMON: name, arpeggio, Controllers, Effects, etc., etc.

4 VOICES can be combined in a PERFORMANCE…
16 VOICES can be combined in a MIXING program.

VOICES are loaded into non-volatile memory of the internal XF - which remain between power down and power up.

USER Audio data can be ‘loaded’ to volatile SDRAM (disappears when you power down) or it can be ‘burned’ (installed) to FLASH (which houses the WAVEFORM data and the Sample data)… (not the Elements, not the VOICES, not the PERFORMANCES, not the MIXING setup… just the WAVEFORM and Sample data.

So there are parameters at each level of the heirachy that define what goes on with the data. The XF’s job is to keep track of it for you. So that the correct parameters “point to” the correct data. You will hear the word “pointer” and “pointers” to refer to the fact that it literally points to or references specific data.

Motif XF Tone Generator: Exploring a VOICE in VOICE mode

Thanks for the thorough response.  Of course, I assume you agree with JTR that the flash memory data (samples, etc) loads instantly for playability.  The only real time lag is in the initial installation of data into the flash drive that does not affect the playing aspect of the keyboard.

THANKS,
AB

Look, the wording is not exactly how I would put it.
Here’s a better picture of what is happening:

Go to VOICE mode
Call up the “Full Concert Grand” PRE1:001(A01)
Hit a key, you are playing it immediately… why? because the Waveforms and Samples that are used in this particular VOICE are always resident in the Motif XF. This Voice uses 4 different preset Waveforms:
_ CF3 Stretch Soft St
_ CF3 Stretch Med St
_ CF3 Stretch Hard St
_ CF3 Key Off St

These Waveforms are listed among the 3,977 Waveforms that come with your Motif XF - they were literally “burned” into memory in Hamamatsu, Japan. The “Full Concert Grand” is in the PRESET VOICE banks so that VOICE will always be there no matter what. You can never write over it, or lose it - it is PRE-SET. The VOICE data are the parameters that address the Waveforms and Samples. VOICE data includes Filters, Effects, Tuning, LFOs, Envelopes, etc., etc.... these all point to the above listed Waveforms… to make up a playable instrument sound.

Call up the “Natural Grand S6” USR1:001(A01)
Hit a key, you are playing it immediately… why? because the Waveforms that are used in this particular VOICE are always resident in the Motif XF. This VOICE uses 6 different preset Waveforms:
_ S6 Stretch ff St
_ S6 Stretch mf St
_ S6 Stretch mp St
_ S6 Stretch pp St
_ S6 Stretch Sw St2
_ S6 Stretch KeyOff St

These Waveforms are listed among the 3,977 Waveforms that come with the Motif XF - again burned in Hamamatsu, Japan. The “Natural Grand S6” is in the USER VOICE bank so this VOICE data could possibly be overwritten. If you load in a Voice library to USER bank 1, poof! the “Natural Grand S6” Voice is gone. (the samples and waveforms are still in the Motif XF… just the VOICE data that points at them to make the “Natural Grand S6” was overwritten… the samples and waveforms are still in memory… understand?)

You could load the Voice data back in by loading the VOICE from a file. It literally takes less than 1 second to load the Voice parameters back into the USR1:001 location
press [FILE]
Set TYPE = VOICE
Highlight an ALL data file that contains the Factory Set
Highlight the VOICE: Natural Grand S6
Target the USR1:001 location
Press [SF2] LOAD
Once you press load: in less than 1 second that Voice is back… why so fast… because the Waveforms and Samples are already in memory.

Okay… hopefully you are getting the “already in memory” thing. Lets talk about the FLASH boards. They will contain your Waveforms and Samples… these are the items that take a long time to load… The VOICE data is so fast that it does not even count.

So Yamaha gives you 3,977 Waveforms to start in permanent memory. Each FLASH board offers you an opportunity to add (burn) as many as 2,048 of your own ‘permanent’ waveforms. Two boards in theory could have a total of 4,096 Waveforms between them. (they are really semi-permanent because the Flash boards are rewriteable memory, cool!) But they remain until you DELETE the data or FORMAT the boards.

VOICE data points to the waveforms. If the waveform was not in memory you would have to load it and wait for the data to load (minutes go by). However, when you place your favorite Waveforms on your FLASH boards, you no longer have to wait for those things that take a long time to load. They are as immediately accessible as the Preset Waveforms.

Whether you keep the VOICE data in memory is up to you… you have 512 USER VOICE locations that you can have in the 4 USER VOICE banks.

The only time you have load anything (once your FLASH boards are tight) is the VOICES that access the data. If they are already in memory - forget about loading altogether.

512 is going to be more Voices than most musicians will need. So, it is conceiveable that you may not ever load data, once you dial in your Motif XF. Of course for others folks 16,384 Voice locations would not be enough… but don’t worry about them :)

Think of the FLASH boards as a way to extend the 3,977 Waveforms that Yamaha gave you right-out-of-the-box, with a few thousand of your own!

Nice long answer.  With great respect, please answer the following simply - if you are accessing samples or large data blocks in the flash memory will that take more time that accessing the samples or large data blocks that are built into the XF?  Is it yes or no? JTR says no.  Anyone disagree?

Here is the quote you are after from BM, AB77…

Bad_Mister - 15 October 2010 07:52 PM

Lets talk about the FLASH boards. They will contain your Waveforms and Samples… these are the items that take a long time to load… The VOICE data is so fast that it does not even count.

...However, when you place your favorite Waveforms on your FLASH boards, you no longer have to wait for those things that take a long time to load. They are as immediately accessible as the Preset Waveforms.

...Think of the FLASH boards as a way to extend the 3,977 Waveforms that Yamaha gave you right-out-of-the-box, with a few thousand of your own!

And I have already chimed in on this subject, but I can assure anyone reading this that once the waveforms are in FLASH, their associated voices will load just like a preset voice.  In other words, instantaneously.

I literally spent all last Sunday cataloguing 3 free and 4 commercial 128 voice sound banks, editing them down to fit in to 3 user banks on the XF.  I was moving loads of data on to the FLASH all that time.  After I whittled those hundreds and hundreds of voices down to 384, I wiped out the FLASH and reloaded it with my finished, edited user banks’ corresponding waveforms.

I now have 3 user banks using new, non-factory waveforms with voices that load as fast as an XF factory preset. In fact, when I use category search to browse sounds, I don’t even notice which bank (User or Preset) they are being pulled from. :-)

I am sure the other XF Flash owners will all say the same thing, so feel free to be my witness for AB77. :-)

Thanks “JTR.” I believe you.  And thanks for pulling out that quote out of that long response that most directly related to my question.  By saying that, I want to indicate that I am grateful for that long response and this is a very great service to people.

Another question if I may - JTR - what particular samples did you find important to put on you flash drive?  (i.e. drums? strings, winds, brass, synth sounds, everything???) I am just really curious what you found to be your favorite.

THANKS AGAIN - BOTH OF YOU!!!!
AB

And there is not much I can offer you guys, except here is a webcam at Tarnaby, Sweden.  In about two hours the sun will rise there and it is above the arctic circle.  What a world we live in!
http://www.storuman.se/Webcams/webbkamera_tarnaby.htm

^^Good stuff. :)

I downloaded the XSpand your World banks from Yamaha and cut the three banks down to one.  My musical taste and output is electro clash and funk so I am primarily interested in synths, EPs and guitars. Found plenty of great stuff.

I purchased several “synth” sets from Easy Sounds, including Phat Analog, Magical Pads, Synth Xtreme and Hypnotic Stepz - I cut those four banks down to two (dumped the trance stuff and kept the step sequencer basses, comps, pads and leads).  The Easy Sounds stuff has many new sampled waveforms, and they sound great.  I always audition both the raw waveforms and the presets w/o effects when I catalog, and I can tell you that their banks are pretty stunning.  Very musical, not “showy” and they sound amazing 100% dry of effects. Throw a touch of LFO depth and speed on them and they sound so very “alive”.  They also make good use of the AF 1 and 2 buttons.  Money well spent.

I left about 20 slots open as I am learning how to program the XF… so I will start w/ either factory waveforms or Easy Sounds waveforms and build from there.  It’s a blast so far… I learned how to program on a Nord Lead and many of those basics apply on the Motif.  The Motif allows for stacking 8 elements in a voice, so you can go deep… but truthfully most synth patches are pretty basic and use only a few elements, so they are great to learn on. My goal is to end up with a bank of my own sounds… slowy getting there.

My next project is to tackle custom drum kits.  I highly suggest Hugo’s AMAZING Goldbaby drum machine series.  His samples are the best in the business… he records the output of EVERY kind of vintage drum machine to 2 track tape or virgin vinyl and then samples the sounds from there.  http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/products.html

His Linn kits are the best I have ever heard.

Thanks Mr. Robot.  Who did your avatar?  It is great.  I did not know Robots wore ties? 
Best,
AB
P.S.  I cannot wait to get a Motif XF.  I do not have an ES so the decision is easy for me.