My Guitar Center in Colorado Springs has an XF8 and I had quite some time at the keys.  My overall impressions are:

a. I like the new cabinet (dark looks nice)
b. The OS seems easier to get around
c. Keyboard feels same/similar to XS8
d. Sounds same as XS8 REPEAT - sounds the same!!

Hold the presses—what’s going on here?  I was hoping for much richer tone quality—I didn’t hear it!

Sorry I can’t report that its worth the upgrade… perhaps the sampling size and formats are great—but, its the sounds that should be the selling point—right?

disappointed,

Mike

I’m in the same boat Mike. I really like the Flash Memory which is great for live performances and an extra User bank, but I’ve only had my XS7 for 2 years now and I still love the hell outta’ it! lol Of course all the cool voice downloads for the XF will more than likely have alot of killer sounds that we’ll want, but we might need the XF to do so. I was saving up for the XF7 and then had alot of other “components” break on me a week ago so my savings disappeared! When it rains....

If Yamaha had named it the Motif XSF, I think many people would have saved time on all of the “disappointment” commentary.  The fact that is is still a Motif X? was supposed to signify that we were simply moving from only S (sample RAM) to F (flash memory).  The Yamaha Motif XF is an upgrade of Motif XS.  Nobody sells the same hardware for more than three years without upgrading processors, chips, circuitry, etc. and adding in a few new enhancements due to technology changes.

I am glad for the XF upgrade.  It is a great new choice.

I would think that some future Yamaha Motif ?F/S (where ? is not X) will represent a new synth architecture where the number of elements per voice increases, the number of song/pattern tracks increases, the OS is new, the LCD display is larger, etc.

Mike did you try the User1 bank?

What I’ve learned to date is all the new sounds are in User 1.

If you don’t play User 1 you probably won’t find anything at all new.

F

Well, you can’;t really hear a difference in tonal quality at Guitar Center - that environment is too noisy and the monitors are not always placed at optimum listening levels.

I have an XF and XS here and I can clearly hear a sonic difference - the XF sounds more detailed, better low-mids, punchier bottom end overall - but while the differences are audible to me, if you don’t have a high-defintion audio system and don’t know what to listen for, it might not seem to you like there’s any difference at all.

Let’s put it this way - I can hear the difference between the highest-quality mp3 (320 kbps)and a CD audio (16-bit 44.1khz) track, and I can also tell the difference between a 16-bit audio track and a 24-bit one (assuming they are all the same song).
But my wife can’t tell them apart.

That said, yes the XF factory set includes almost all of the XS voices, so there is no difference there. The new voices are in the User 1 bank, and there are new drumkits in the second User drum bank.

Sealed cans..I generally bring my own HD 280 Sennheisers and GC generally has a bunch of these available if you ask them....(with GC supplied earcup grease which is why i generally bring my own).

If you go to GC in the day time, before school is out, you generally won’t have to listen to all the johnny shredders in there that whore out all the guitars and amps for free at bone crushing volumes....

NEVER go to GC on a weekend—trust me.

Although, Friday and Saturday night can be quiet.

Dinner time is always a safe bet.

F

Funkster - 08 September 2010 11:32 PM

Sealed cans

F

Personally I still seem to get better results (more dynamic range support, it seems) from studio monitors when I can use them, but F’s right, don’t be afraid to take some good cans with you.  Either way, though, if you have a really high quality listening setup it’s simply amazing the difference you can tell between sounds (whether MP3 vs CDA or whatever).

rant

A guy at Best Buy recently told my wife he didn’t think they had CD players for sale.  He said that, “with MP3 players CD’s are kind of stupid and outdated.” It’s amazing how few people realize just how crappy MP3’s really are.  I mean they’re great for portability but they’re NOT a quality audio representation.

/rant

I can’t wait to get my hands on an XF and check out the new stuff.  My local music store that I like to haunt told me today they’d have a couple in a week or so.  They’re good about having good monitoring set up, but they also are open to letting me hook up whatever I want to evaluate gear.  I’m glad to see some folks adding their thoughts after having a hands on experience.  Good stuff, thanks for sharing your experience!

Well sure you’ll get better DR from monitors and better sound overall from open cans.

But 30db of isolation (sealed cans) can come in REAL handy at GC.

But the monitors hooked up to the keybaords at GC generally aren’t good, 5” powered monitors that are more geared towards ruggedness than audio quality.... It’s not like it’s gonna be hooked up to Genelecs (although you could ask I supposed but the Genelecs are in a different room than the keyboards)

As far as audio quality out of the XF you cuold probably do as well or better on the XS by going SPDIF out into a snobby D/A (Apogee...)

Also if you’re testing out GUITARS at GC, and you don’t want to listen to all the johnny shredders, get them to put you in a “sound lab” which is an isolated room where they keep all the good stuff (vintage amps and guitars) and you don’t have to play loudness wars with the kiddies.

F

WesMan - 08 September 2010 09:43 PM

If Yamaha had named it the Motif XSF, I think many people would have saved time on all of the “disappointment” commentary.  The fact that is is still a Motif X? was supposed to signify that we were simply moving from only S (sample RAM) to F (flash memory).  The Yamaha Motif XF is an upgrade of Motif XS.  Nobody sells the same hardware for more than three years without upgrading processors, chips, circuitry, etc. and adding in a few new enhancements due to technology changes.

I am glad for the XF upgrade.  It is a great new choice.

I would think that some future Yamaha Motif ?F/S (where ? is not X) will represent a new synth architecture where the number of elements per voice increases, the number of song/pattern tracks increases, the OS is new, the LCD display is larger, etc.

IF it had of been called the XSF I think it would have gone down better. Yamaha haven’t upgraded the processors etc its the same XS stuff. New D/A’s but that’s about it.

I’m not sure there will be a future totally new Motif. I hope I’m wrong but the sheer economics of developing a new workstation appear to be beyond Yamaha’s resources for the sales they are gonig to get.
The success of the Tyros range in the arranger market will hopfully allow them to develop the motif range further. After all the new Tyros 4 uses the same flash memory and many voices and processors etc.

A question for Dave Polich about the difference in sound quality of the XF:

The XF is supposed to have better DACs, right? So, if you use the XS through SPDIF output the quality should be exactly the same (same voices with same samples, of course)?

Cheers

Hi guys
what about the seamless transitions of voices or performances or master programs?
Is it improved?

i see all posts said motif xf have the same sounds of xs and that make me dont go for motif xf and go for the xs rack version with other module like m3m or fantom xr or get the xs rack with the fantom g

dorremifasol - 09 September 2010 06:30 AM

A question for Dave Polich about the difference in sound quality of the XF:

The XF is supposed to have better DACs, right? So, if you use the XS through SPDIF output the quality should be exactly the same (same voices with same samples, of course)?

Cheers

Officially (from Yamaha US) - the DAC’s have been “tweaked”. They do
sound better. Yes, the digital output would be the same.

I too spent some quality time with the Motif XF. I’m a Motif ES owner and regular XS user, so I have significant firsthand experience with the Motif line.

(As pointed out in another thread, the new voice bank is User Bank 1.)

The new Natural Grand is quite nice to play, very responsive and sounds more like a ‘real’ piano. It seems to have some character to it, not just a smooth, perfect piano. I liked it.

I enjoyed several of the new electric guitars. Again, responsive, realistic and fun to play. Great stuff.

The new acoustic drums were very good. Liked ‘em a lot.

Several new saxes that breathed with life. I know, lots of folks would blow them off because “synth saxes are cheesy”. These were very good.

The new arps (evident in some of the performances) were lots of fun and inspiring. Lots of ways to make music with these.

I didn’t care for the new combo organ stuff. (Good emulations, but I owned a Farfisa as a teenager and I never want to go back to that sound.)

Some of the new string sounds were improved and some seemed to have a lot of vibrato built in that did not work well when playing anything more than solo lines. (I also own a Kurzweil PC3X and it is unmatched in the orchestral realm.) There was a very good french horn/string voice that was impressive and fun to play.

Something I really didn’t like about the new XF (not that it matters) is the black finish. It looks cheap in comparison to the metallic painted finish on previous Motifs and I would imagine this is a cost savings in the making of this board.

Upgrading to the XF is still not something I personally need. It really boils down to how you’ll use it. The flash memory will be useful for lots of folks (for convenience and live use).

All in all, the Motif line is still awesome!

Greg

Bif - 09 September 2010 11:08 PM

I too spent some quality time with the Motif XF. I’m a Motif ES owner and regular XS user, so I have significant firsthand experience with the Motif line.

(As pointed out in another thread, the new voice bank is User Bank 1.)

The new Natural Grand is quite nice to play, very responsive and sounds more like a ‘real’ piano. It seems to have some character to it, not just a smooth, perfect piano. I liked it.

I enjoyed several of the new electric guitars. Again, responsive, realistic and fun to play. Great stuff.

The new acoustic drums were very good. Liked ‘em a lot.

Several new saxes that breathed with life. I know, lots of folks would blow them off because “synth saxes are cheesy”. These were very good.

The new arps (evident in some of the performances) were lots of fun and inspiring. Lots of ways to make music with these.

I didn’t care for the new combo organ stuff. (Good emulations, but I owned a Farfisa as a teenager and I never want to go back to that sound.)

Some of the new string sounds were improved and some seemed to have a lot of vibrato built in that did not work well when playing anything more than solo lines. (I also own a Kurzweil PC3X and it is unmatched in the orchestral realm.) There was a very good french horn/string voice that was impressive and fun to play.

Something I really didn’t like about the new XF (not that it matters) is the black finish. It looks cheap in comparison to the metallic painted finish on previous Motifs and I would imagine this is a cost savings in the making of this board.

Upgrading to the XF is still not something I personally need. It really boils down to how you’ll use it. The flash memory will be useful for lots of folks (for convenience and live use).

All in all, the Motif line is still awesome!

Greg

Great overview, thanks! :)

Bif - 09 September 2010 11:08 PM

Something I really didn’t like about the new XF (not that it matters) is the black finish. It looks cheap in comparison to the metallic painted finish on previous Motifs and I would imagine this is a cost savings in the making of this board.


Greg

The black finish wasn’t a “cost-saving” decision. But anyway, personally
I think it looks much better than the XS. The white silkscreen labeling
on the black finish is much easier to read and see onstage. And black looks more elegant, especially next to a black Yamaha grand piano.