Assume I am running an XF w/ a FW hooked up to Cubase.  I know the XF can sequence external gear.  Would the same apply if I wanted to sequence a VST running inside of Cubase?

For example: I am getting in a groove on the XF Pattern Sequencer and I don’t want to break the flow… but I wanted to add a specific VST synth to the song - can I actually have the XF sequence it?

Thanks!

Jive Talking Robot - 08 September 2010 01:00 PM

Assume I am running an XF w/ a FW hooked up to Cubase.  I know the XF can sequence external gear.  Would the same apply if I wanted to sequence a VST running inside of Cubase?

For example: I am getting in a groove on the XF Pattern Sequencer and I don’t want to break the flow… but I wanted to add a specific VST synth to the song - can I actually have the XF sequence it?

Thanks!

you mean sequence it, inside of the DAW right?  not actually on the XF…

if you mean in the DAW then I’m sure you can.  I’d hope and wish they didn’t remove functionality as simple as a midi controller from their new masterpiece.

Me either! :)

Actually I meant I wanted to use the Motif FX’s pattern sequencer to sequence a VST plug in running inside Cubase (as in treating the VST almost as if it were an external hardware synth).  I was only interested in doing this as a matter of workflow and it’s certainly no dealbreaker - it would just be fun to try every now and again.

As odd as this sounds, I like using different sequencers to change things up - keeps me fresh.  The Elektron X0X sequencers are a blast for this sort of thing…

The Motif XF (and all the Motif’s back to the original) can act as a MIDI controller for software synths, hardware synths, alike.

Not only will you be able to assign things from the Motif XF (like patterns) to external devices, you will be able to control those computer based VSTi’s right from the screen of Motif XF

In other words, you can press the REMOTE ON/OFF button on the front panel of the Motif XF, page down the screen that allows you to select “INST” - (Instruments will let you scroll through your available VSTi’s on your computer), you can select it and then the parameters of that VSTi will be controllable by the knobs and sliders on the Motif XF front panel. The parameters of the VSTi will not only be in front of you on your computer, they will also be shown in the screen of your XF!

You can put the mouse down and use the front panel knobs to control the VSTi.

Bad_Mister - 08 September 2010 03:25 PM

The parameters of the VSTi will not only be in front of you on your computer, they will also be shown in the screen of your XF!

!!!!!!! Now that is just plain cool.  Basically I can control the VSTs w/o having to look @ the computer (after I map them of course) or leave the Motif.  I can do this w/ a Novation ReMote now, but I would MUCH rather streamline it around a single interface.  This is a huge selling point.  I know Yamaha markets their integration with Cubase, but it really goes much deeper than I understood.  Thanks for sharing that.

Would be nice if there was a video of this; I’ve been able to control mix and pan but never vstis with the xs remote

F

Jive Talking Robot - 08 September 2010 03:43 PM

Bad_Mister - 08 September 2010 03:25 PM

Not only will you be able to assign things from the Motif XF (like patterns) to external devices, you will be able to control those computer based VSTi’s right from the screen of Motif XF.

Just so I understand: by “external devices” do you also mean a VST residing in Cubase?  For instance, say I write a pattern on the Motif’s pattern sequencer and I decide I would rather use a voice from the Kore 2 VST instead of an internal voice from the Motif.  Now I KNOW I could import that pattern in to Cubase and go from there, but, in this case, I simply want to send MIDI note data OUT of the XF’s pattern sequencer and IN to Cubase to audition this new Kore 2 voice in my Motif mix.  Is this possible?  Thanks for clarifying.

Bad_Mister - 08 September 2010 03:25 PM

The parameters of the VSTi will not only be in front of you on your computer, they will also be shown in the screen of your XF!

!!!!!!! Now that is just plain cool.  Basically I can control the VSTs w/o having to look @ the computer (after I map them of course) or leave the Motif.  I can do this w/ a Novation ReMote now, but I would MUCH rather streamline it around a single interface.  This is a huge selling point.  I know Yamaha markets their integration with Cubase, but it really goes much deeper than I understood.  Thanks for sharing that.

Man yeah that is awesome.  They really should talk about this more.  Thats an awesome feature.... I mean being able to actually see the parameters on the screen....  wow.  How dies the xf know what parameters are on each vsti..... also could I do the same thing via logic? It ableton?  I know ableton has a learn feature for external controls.... but having them already set up for you is really nice.

There are still a few things I am trying to wrap my head around w/ FW, Cubase and Motif.  I know you can add the XF system effects like reverb and delay/chorus to the VSTs coming out of Cubase over FW.

However, if you have mulitple VSTi soft synths running in Cubase (say one instance of Kore and of Maschine), could you apply a different reverb/chorus amount to each instance of the VST?  Can you even use Insert FX (with the understanding that you only have 8 dual IFX to go around of course)?

And when you go to render those VSTs as audio, are they recorded “wet” with the Motif FX?

Bad_Mister - 08 September 2010 03:25 PM

Not only will you be able to assign things from the Motif XF (like patterns) to external devices, you will be able to control those computer based VSTi’s right from the screen of Motif XF.

Just wanted to make sure this question didn’t get lost in the mix. By “external devices” do you also mean a VST residing in Cubase?  For instance, say I write a pattern on the Motif’s pattern sequencer and I decide I would rather use a voice from the Kore 2 VST instead of an internal voice from the Motif.  Now I KNOW I could import that pattern in to Cubase and go from there, but, in this case, I simply want to send MIDI note data OUT of the XF’s pattern sequencer and IN to Cubase to audition this new Kore 2 voice in my Motif mix.  Is this possible?  Thanks for clarifying.

if you have mulitple VSTi soft synths running in Cubase (say one instance of Kore and of Maschine), could you apply a different reverb/chorus amount to each instance of the VST?  Can you even use Insert FX (with the understanding that you only have 8 dual IFX to go around of course)?

No. If you have ever worked a professional mixing console, or a ‘live’ mixing console that will help understand it. INPUTS and OUTPUTS, it is not really all that complex but if you have never done it then, of course, it is new. Don’t let the FW thing throw you (it is just a more convenient cable setup).

You have two basic categories of effects when dealing with a mixing console. One where the individual signal is patched to an effect and the effect it inline with that channel. The other where you have a Send from each channel and composite Return.

In the inline routing is called an insertion effect, the send/return routing (like with an auxiliary send) is the system effects situation.

You have 16 channels on this mixer dedicated to the internal synthesizer of the Motif XF, you have an audio channel dedicated to the analog input (A/D INPUT), and you have an audio channel dedicated to audio coming in via FW. You can see them on the Motif mixer by pressing the [MIXING button)
[F1] PARTS 1-16
[F2] AUDIO

You can apply reverb and/or chorus to the channel. It depends what you send to that channel - if you connect a 12 channel external mixer to the AD INPUT jacks on the Motif XF those 12 channels will show up in the Motif XS as the A/D INPUT. Do you have individual send amounts to the Motif Effects for each of the 12 incoming channels… no, of course not. They are combined and sent in as a stereo pair. You have a single SEND amount to the Motif XF Reverb for the AD INPUT channel, you have a single SEND amount to the Motif XS Chorus for the AD INPUT channel.

If you connect your VSTi so they are coming in the FW channel, Do you have individual send amounts to the Motif Effects for each of the VSTi coming in… no, of course not. They are combined and sent in as a stereo pair. You have a single SEND amount to the Motif XF Reverb for the FW INPUT channel, you have a single SEND amount to the Motif XS Chorus for the FW INPUT channel.

Now, the AD INPUT CHANNEL can be routed to any of the Motif XF’s available OUTPUT buses. The FW INPUT CHANNEL can be routed to any of the Motif XF’s available OUTPUT buses.

Both audio channels can be a source when routed to the XF sampler instead of through the SYSTEM Effect you have an opportunity to send them the sampler unit.

Can you use the INSERTION EFFECTS (was you next question). Insertion Effects are available for any 8 internal synth Parts and if you wish the AD INPUT can be one of the 8 Parts. For obvious reason (may not be immediately obvious to everyone, however), they are not available for the (digital) FW input. The FW return to the XF mixer gets return to through its audio input channel where you can monitor that return with the SYSTEM (reverb/chorus) effects.

If you want to apply Motif XF Insertion Effects to any incoming audio… you must:
1) Either bring it in via the A/D INPUT
2) Or make it a Motif XF internal Voice (i.e., sample it).

And when you go to render those VSTs as audio, are they recorded “wet” with the Motif FX?

Not sure about how you worded the question… if you want to route the audio of the something you sent into the Motif XF back to your DAW as an audio track, you certainly can - but with the obvious limitations of the routing (again may not be so obvious initially). But here is what most people miss:

There are devices in any audio chain called ‘combining amps’ - they are used all the time. When you have an individual channel and you send it via an AUX SEND off to a new destination, and you have an AUX SEND for each channel of the mixer that allows you to route signals… Typically there is a MASTER AUX SEND. That master aux send adjust the signal just post a combining amplifier. All the individual AUX SENDS are combined together into a composite signal. Simple enough?

The point is once combined you cannot re-separate them. There are combining amps all over audio routing. To not understand how and why they exist is to always be confused by what is and is not going to be possible on any mixing desk.

If you want to process one of your VSTi with the Motif’s effects, say the SYSTEM EFFECT (REV-X REVERB) if you route the RETURN of the REV-X REVERB to your DAW audio track, remember a SYSTEM EFFECT is likely to have sends from a dozen or more other channels active - so your signal going to your DAW will have not just your VSTi but everything that was combined before going to the REV-X reverb, naturally.

Naturally, the solution is you isolate your VSTi in the Reverb Chamber and print the audio. Remember INSERTION effects are inline (inline always creates an isolation situation), while SYSTEM effects are send/return… combining amplifier at work combining all the ‘dry’ sends before entering the processor, the return from the effect is always a composite signal representing the ‘wet’ of all the signals sent in. 

So you will want to process the signal in isolation - so the VSTi is the only thing in the processor.
If you want to use the INSERTION EFFECT - you can sample it in the XF (render it as audio to the XF, process it with XF Insertion Effects, then send it where ever you wish.

Render, Sample, print as audio… all the same thing.... when dealing with digital musical snapshots not everything is real time, (nor does it need to be).

Click thumbnail to see full-size image

I simply want to send MIDI note data OUT of the XF’s pattern sequencer and IN to Cubase to audition this new Kore 2 voice in my Motif mix.  Is this possible?

MIDI data can be routed OUT from any MIDI sequencer or it would not a be a useful thing. Perhaps I’m missing the question. Are you really asking can the Motif XF sequencer send data OUT via MIDI? That’s a big ol’ affirmative.  Now obviously any workstation will have its own internal tone engine as a priority but if you have data in the XF’s Pattern sequencer, of course you can send it IN to Cubase and of course you can route it any VSTi _ I don’t know much about KORE 2, (I’ll ask the obvious question: Does it take MIDI IN?) _ I cannot imagine a VSTi that would not, nor should you imagine that a sequencer would not be able to send Note Data OUT… isn’t that what is a the fundamental core (no pun intended) of all of this?

Did I misinterpret your question? If so, forgive me.
Hope that helps.

Man, when Bad Mister replies, he doesn’t mess around!  Yes, both posts totally answered my questions - thank you very much!

Where you an instructor/teacher at one time?  If so, it shows! I really appreciate not only the answers but the technical reasons behind them as it really gives me an understanding to the “logic” of the workflow.  It paints a very clear picture for me.

I am going to the Motif event at my Chicago GC on Monday (I think Blake will be there) so I can’t wait to watch him do his thing - I don’t know if I will have any questions left for him @ this rate! Haha…

And, just so you know, all your answers to my questions are not in vain - the money is saved for a 61 + 1GB Flash + FW and the wife has approved it (!), so we are good to go.  I will be ordering it within the week and I can’t wait to show off my new ‘board once it arrives. :)

Thanks, as always, for your help.