Ok I would like to call the attention to whom else can see through the lines of what Yamaha has done to us again and again.

I have not been here for quit sometime because of what I am about to say about the New Motif. Oh yes it’s lovely But what is really underneath the hood of this Machine. Could it be that the only thing that they changed is : Adding more sampling space and a few more sounds.

Ok does this really justify purchasing this Black Beauty here or are we that stupid to over look what is really going on. I have read over a thousand letters from the past about this unit and it seems that it’s all been ignored for what ever reasons.

Meanwhile Open labs is ahead of the ball game with what they bring to the table regarding our needs in an instrument to use and rely on for anything we throw at it.

So why are we looked at as ignorant customers and can not see that a color change will trick us. Yamaha please stop treating us like this, we are smarter then you give us credit for.

If you do not believe me. Take a look at how Open labs thought about all of the issues that a music maker would be challenged with these days and they came through creating the units that they have right now.
I am sure that when whom ever thought of the Meko or Neko units was way out there, but look at how, one by one it’s causing companies to go under because of the out of the box thinking. My point is it took someone to take this business that serious enough to make it happen and look at them now OMG, one by one all of the major giants that were once kings of the industry are all failing because the customer to them is not important anymore.

The motif was once a great deal but now it seems as if this unit will suffer he same demise as some of Roland products are going through right to this day.

It takes more then a color change to really get us to come out to purchase new keyboards like a Motif. Give us something that we can say “Now that giving us what we asked for” But will you guys listen or will the success of Yamaha go down in a burning flame because they are someone decided to ignore us as their customers.

Because we those serious music creators know better then this. This relationship, we have goes both ways. We purchase your products and you guys should hear our side as well to make us come back.

It a shame that these days we have people in control of what they think we want but have no clue and will not, I mean refuse to read what we really want in the Motif to get the job done.

guess what Open Labs did it, and that is a fact.

Just my Opinion on how dumb do they think we really are these days.

Savnac

We need an official/stickied ‘XF is just an XS with more ROM + flash ram’ thread so people will stop creating threads about this every other day.

Worknman-

I am not sure what you are saying but I ask you to go back about three years ago and read what customers asked for and tell me if any of what was serious we got with the so call upgrades regarding the Motif versions.

Man I am not one of those rapper dudes that push buttons and call it a song. I create this from scratch from ground up so the equipment that I need for todays music and how it’s done needs to be worth my time Yo man only the real music makers will see my point here.

Now this is not aimed at all rappers because a great deal of them know what I mean because they can bring it. I am saying that they seem to make instruments just to make a sale to us and there are guys like me that see it for what it’s really worth.

And so a color change, my God it’s got to be much more then that to make us come back in a serious way.

And hey if this thread bothers you, be my guest and just ignore it like Yamaha do to us.

Again someone somewhere in that company of Open Labs listened to customers from one forum to another, reading all of these things that we as customers want and gave it to us.

And it shocks me that after some time of being away from this forum and Yamaha Motif that, it has some things but not a lot and to me and how customers back then when I use to come here, did not get one thing that we asked for.

Call this a complaint, I call it “the customer will always be right” and if you ignore us long enough. One day you may not have a company to sale these types of keyboards because someone else where listen and gave to the customer a great product.

I am not a sales person that work for open labs. I am a customer that can see beyond a black beautiful keyboard and really take a serious look at what’s there, is where I am coming from.

Peace

But black is such an original color...very few people play black keyboards so it’s instantly recognizable on stage...that alone makes it worth it.

Funkster

Funkster -

Yo man I feel you but man do a side to side comparison. and tell me what you really think about this Lemon Lot.

Hey man just because she’s (silver, green or black). What can she really bring to the table is what I am saying that justify me spending a dime for it.

Peace

I was being sarcastic. So who are these “new owners” of open labs? I just went to their site.... Want to learn more about it.

I’m not impressed with the XF, but I haven’t listened to it yet.

I have some pithy comments about where they went with it, but people are wounded enough about my blasting the FW stuff.

I think in effect it’s pretty underwhelming but you know, I was thinking a few months ago that it’s nice that yamaha hasn’t updated the XS because my XS probably hadnt depreciated too much…

I think if they did such a moderate hw upgrade, they could at least do a massive os upgrade and it doesn’t seem like that happened.

RE OpenLabs briefly looked at their site—I don’t know who it’s making go under but themselves..but..seems pretty expensive for a pc with a keyboard attached..does it even come with vstis?

Funkster

Man look deeper into Open Labs and what they really have going.
like I said i use to come here to this forum years back and I remember reading lot of what the customer wanted to see happen with the motif.

Very little has happen that would make an impact. Ok look at the classic motif, now that one is still one of the best of the series and whom ever have one of those should keep it and never let it go.

The “MO” was ok but it was marked to a certain group of people ok.
Then other versions followed there were ok don;t get me wrong.

But we are in a different phase now and there are companies out there like Open labs that are causing companies to rethink outside the box now, and my friend it ‘s not a joke.

I give it another 3 to 5 years down the road. If they do not do something major we may not be seeing Motifs around for very long.
Look at how Roland snatched away the VS units. Ok so it became not so important it seemed. ok Open Labs took what they had and made it something more but in there way giving you more for the dollar.

Meanwhile Roland had no choice but to discontinue the “VS” series
because someone thought outside the box . Look deeper into what open labs have, it might shock you.

If the VS was o great why did they take it away, Why?

All I am saying is it’s a shame that all of this time gone by and all they can’t think to add to the already great Motif, who - what a change of color, come on man, and some more memory added to top it off.

I mean it’s ok but the motif should be light years ahead of what we see or what they choose to give to us.

So why do they not listen to us as customers, what made them think,, that what we have to say,, does not matter. Why is this?

Meanwhile here in the state I live can not sale a lot of the yamaha units to serious music creators because what they have now can not be justified. it needs more look around you.

Go back to Open labs and read, see what’s underneath the hood of that car and lets talk again. I know that a Motif can not be an open labs unit but I do remember reading post years ago about what we as customers wanted and it’s been ignored most of it.

So why is it that one company here the request but another company bank on bling, come on we are smarter then this. And I am sure that Korg feel this sting right now.

But I am really shocked about Yamaha and how it really seems that what we need in the motif is just not that important to listen and give to us what we want. Yes some of you do not care about this but the companies out there are in competitions with one another
and I wanted Yamaha to win this but it seems that all they can think of is a color change and more memory added, wow.

Cheers!

So what VSTis do you run on your openlabs mostly?
Funkster

Savnac - 04 September 2010 10:41 PM

Worknman-

I am not sure what you are saying…

I am saying that you haven’t brought up anything new that hasn’t already been said in the other 30 threads about this topic, so why not post in one of those instead of creating yet another thread?

I don’t know if anybody at Yamaha who matters is actually reading this forum, but if they are, I’m sure they get the point by now.

I’m not agreeing/disagreeing with any of the points you made; I’m simply saying that it would be nice to have ONE thread that people who are not happy with the XF can vent in, instead of everybody who wants to bitch and complain creating a new one.

If they spent as much on R&D;as they are on Marketing it probably would sell itself…

The MBA’s probably thought a black paint job and 2x rom would supplicate the masses…

But hey, they are a 100 year old company that has significant historical commitment to transmitting audio over firewire.

They deserve a pass!

Funkster

Uh, you do know that OpenLabs just recently avoided going out of business entirely by being forced to sell the company at auction? Doesn’t sound like they’re putting anyone out of business but themselves.

I thought about a Neko, but I didn’t want to pay $8,000 for a $2,000 computer with a $300 audio interface built in to a MIDI controller. Everyone else musically that I know personally feels the same. That’s probably why they aren’t selling many, and, thus, aren’t making any money.

Worknman-

like I said I have been away from this forum for some time now and just decided to come back after I saw and read about the new Motif keyboard.

But my point to all of this is that they treat us like what we have to say about what we want is not our chioce in the matter and if this is the real case. I my self will not purchase another Yamaha keyboard.

I was not aware of any other thread like this. I looked around before I posted this because this like a logt of customers feel like we need to be heard and not ignored anymore.  Motif was a Beast in the start up until the XS series and by now they or someone should have read our post and their research team should come to these forums and read what we have to say about why we are so upset with their product.

Hey man it should be a two way street here customer and demand not just someone in the background making small moves to the one amazing keyboard that was ever made in my opinion.

But like I stated earlier why are we ignored as if we do not matter. When did the customer take the back seat to the demand of what the motif should be by now. Dudes somewhere it has to end, we not purchase any equipment from them and the stop making this repeated series are they start treating us like we do have sense.

You sound like you do understand what I am saying but you just do not want to chime in, hey I understand that but if you yourself have any of the latest versions of Motif and did a side by side comparison you would be forced to see the truth of the matter here.

And maybe you already have done this but want comment to it. But if I am repeating something that has be stated on this topic they say something about this is no joke it’s real. I am just another music creator that understands when I am being sold something the same but is packed just slightly different.

And I take offense to anyone would tell me that I am full of it because I am not and I like others that are twisted about this new release has a right to be, my friend we are their customers. But based on how they do things a lot of us just may not be.

You see this is just a forum for us to vent but this same kind of let down will transpire in the music stores around the world and believe me you it will get to them one way or the other. Because I am not alone on my not be happy about after all this time, They have not given us a real serious upgrade version of a new Motif.

Most of it is the same when you open up the specs to it and to me and others it’s not enough to justify purchasing another one to replace the one that I already have on hand.

Maybe you are upset at the wrong group of people. Maybe you should see our point and collect these if you work for them and pass it to someone that could take these letters directly to whom make the choice to keep the Motif as is but add on a few trinkets here and there and call it a day.

Man come one, there are very serious music makers out here that can tell the difference because we are not that stupid. This new Motif is recolored with a few things added that’s it after all this time. Man Motif ruled once but that is not the deal these days because someone decided to ignore us and repackage something that they gave us with the XS version but add a couple of things and that makes it new.

Sorry I am not buyin this I know better and I bet you do to but want say a word about it. But again you your self do a side by side comparison and even if we never talk again you will see what and why we are so angry about this.

Cheers!

BsMART-

Oh yes I heard about that through some friends but you know what man.
If they go away it’s proven something to us all that some one rattled the boat in the industry of musical instruments and you know what it’s about time that someone way from the left field came up with an amazing idea and followed it through and gave us what Open Labs did.

But as for them putting other companies in a pinch they did they made it so that we did not have to rely on 8 to 15 bulky units in a studio.

So what ‘s so wrong with that. Hey my friend the same this will happen to the car industry some day when we all get to a point where the oil companies keep doing what they are doing the oceans around us.

Some one will figure a way to were we do not need gas cars anymore , so should they shut these people down for the sake of humanity or should we all support that cause. Yo these may not be side by side comparisons but it proves a point that imaginations around the world needs a way to inspire the industry m be it musical, or automotive and as for those whom want to ignore the way things around us are changing can take all of their old idea and parish away.

Open Labs back when it was just a though, I am sure sound off the wall and very risky business wise, but they did it and it made a dent in the industry of musical instruments.

So if they go away my dudes, someone with a much more clever idea will surface again and take over the market of musical instruments fair game I say because all of these companies want our money so why not get what we feel is worth it.

Bsmart based on your name, ok have you your self thought about if you ever had a project and you needed this that and something else to make it happen but in a serious way , but you just did not have $80,000 to `00,00 to spend at an over priced studio and one day you found a company like open labs. Ok what would you do and sony records had a deal on the table for you to complete in a months time.

My dudes you would be on a unit like that for sure because the lst thing you would want is for Sony Records to assume that you, not Tom Jim or DuPree, but you could do the job.

Open Labs would be your best choice and if you thought about this you would see my point.

Ok to your point about an $8,000 for a $2,000 computer with a #300 dollar audio interface. Ok lets do this math here. It seems you would need around $2,500 to $3,800 with taxs and a few extra things before you walked out of the store with your equipment.

OK what about the software, it’s not free, Ok the monitor it’s not cheap. Ok so add around 3,000 depending on what software you go with and trust me it can get costly very. oK so lets say you add around $4,500 more to the 2,500. My dudes you are very close to that $8,000 already without tax.

Ok now who is the smart one among us, Now follow me ok. So what is wrong with a person that’s thought about this, I mean all of it and created a keyboard surface, added the components of a computer, keyboard pad and all of the guts of a computer unit, Oh and I did not add the price of a computer, the kind that can handle full on projects, but back to this, Ok so what’s wrong with a company that thought about this, and saw how the industry of musical instrument makers for high end studio or stage performance did the customer by nickle and dimming us to death give us parts of that puzzle.

Ok so being that the big dogs out there saw this happening. ok why is it that they all are so upset with open labs. My dudes all they did was listen and pay close attention to the music creator and gave us a powerful system in one box unit and not to mention , you can travel with it.

Ok so back to the money end of things, Ok you spent around $7,00 plus without tax, ok add about 3,800 more to that because you need the best computer Pc out there that can handle pro work by the tome you get all of your parts ready for final set up.

My dudes we are way over that $8,000 you spoke of on your own already. So it sounds to me that someone over in that company did us all a favor by creating a portable powerful system that if we needed it there it is. with that price tag.

Hey man do this math yourself and tell me who’s doing us all a favor here.

Ok now what if they shut Open Labs down, then what? should we ignore that someone came out with an idea and the big dogs gained up and closed them out, forcing us to go back to the nickle and dimming us with just parts of the puzzle.

My friend think about this and lets have a real conversation.

oH! I did not add tax on that final price because I am not sure what they make you guys spend as for tax there where ever you are on the map. so you should do that part and total it out. I bet you go way over $11,00 t0 12,000 by the time you finish.

I am not trying to be funny here, but I am just saying after all this time Yamaha should have been the ones to come out with something better by now to compete with an Open Labs my dudes, the world around us has changed and the tech part of all of this is light years ahead so companies should keep up or another smart thinker like who ever created open labs will surface again.

Fair Game,

The End

Savnac - 05 September 2010 02:28 AM

Sorry I am not buyin this I know better and I bet you do to but want say a word about it. But again you your self do a side by side comparison and even if we never talk again you will see what and why we are so angry about this.

Cheers!

Side by side comparison with WHAT, exactly? Honestly, show me something like a Neko or other ‘all-in-one’ solution that has 76 or 88 keys for 3k or less, and I might be persuaded to sell/return the XF8 I just bought. It’s like you want us to compare the XF to a Neko-like product in the same price range… that doesn’t exist?

Personally, I chose to buy an XF because I wanted a HARDWARE synth (rompler), and I believe that the XF is currently the best one on the market right now, at least for my purposes. And, I specifically did NOT want to deal with VSTs/softsynths. I have a laundry list of reasons why, but I won’t go into that here.

As for the XF itself, I think you make some good points. To get 2gb of flash for the XF, it will cost you around $600. Honestly, I think they could’ve put a 64gb (or even 128gb) SSD drive in there for the same price, and I doubt the load times would’ve been horrendous. The reason why they didn’t is beyond me, though I’m sure it’s covered in one of the many other threads about this topic. As I understand it, the XF is being marketed towards Motif Classic and ES users, which leads me to believe that the XF is just a minor revision, and the REAL flagship will be out in a year or two. So I’m not sure that XS users should be all that offended by this new board. If Yamaha doesn’t innovate in this space, one of the other hardware synth makers will. Actually, Korg sort of did with the Oasys; they just have to figure out a way to get the price down on those types of units.

OMG lets not even talk about the Oasis please, lets not go there.

However i think that you missed some of my points here. I did not mean to side by side compare the Open Labs to the Motif.

I am saying put the latest Motif side by side with the new one and tell me how very different they really are. And as for the Classic Motif that was one of the best Motif of all of them.

My point of even mentioning Open Labs was all about thinking outside of the box that most companies not support in there engineers. It took someone way out of left field to rattle that monkey’s cage. It ‘s about time if you ask me because we are the one who are their playing ground by the nickle and dimming us with the version made in between versions.

Come on a place like open labs did it in one shot and whamm right where it hurts and so they or whom ever wants them gone. so they can control the market here lets be real about this, I am and also others that can see through this.

The point I am trying to make is Motif’s newest version should be more then what it is right now by this time in the game.

Hey man I am not alone on this. They think we are stupid. I feel this way and until they make a unit that is comparable to something that’s up to date in the business I am back , until then I like others who were loyal customers want buy into this.

Savnac - 04 September 2010 11:17 PM

I give it another 3 to 5 years down the road. If they do not do something major we may not be seeing Motifs around for very long.
Look at how Roland snatched away the VS units. Ok so it became not so important it seemed. ok Open Labs took what they had and made it something more but in there way giving you more for the dollar.

Meanwhile Roland had no choice but to discontinue the “VS” series
because someone outside the box out thought them norm here. Look deeper into what they have it might shock you.

Fact #1 Motifs will never stop selling or being made regardless.
Fact #2 There’s a huge market of ES owners and new customers to make XF a success.
Fact #3 Yamaha will be around making synthesizers until hell freezes.
Fact #4 Roland VS Studios were a huge success solds tons of units.
Fact #5 Roland VS units time span expired old technology that’s why they left.
Fact #6 Roland VS series not dead new technology will resurface.
Fact #7 Regardless of what XS owners think XF pack enough features to still be a great seller.
Fact #8 Yamaha not worried about XF they’ll laugh enroute to the bank.
Fact #9 If Yamaha was worried about XS clientele they wouldn’t have made an OS upgrade for XS owners to inherit XF features.
Fact #10 Coming from the ES model I can’t wait to get my hand on one.
Fact #11 If I was an XS owner I would be mad too that I have to pay $2300 to get the flash option I so desperately want and need.