mySoftware [Updates]
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Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
Hey BM and Yamaha_US You have to know that if I complain at something YAMAHA does, (as opposed to something that you said that made me mad), that has NOTHING to do with you. I know you don’t decide what gets done by Yamaha Japan. However I do expect that you provide them feedback. Others have commented that some products (like Access, Kurzweil, etc) have frequent OS updates, and others (Yamaha) don’t. That’s a difference in the business strategies at the different companies. But there is nothing wrong with providing feedback that, hey, some customers want to see more frequent OS updates, some customers want broader HW compatibility, etc. That’s just part of this. Of course people complain about Yamaha on here. When you go to a mercedes forum, people complain about Mercedes on there! It’s the nature of the best.
The companies take that feedback and incoporate it into future designs in line with what they think is going to capture and preserve marketshare.
Funkster |
Cowzar of Cunka
 Total Posts: 344
Joined 10-10-2003 status: Enthusiast |
Yamaha at early stage of product launches do a user survey for future products. They have done this for all MOTIF series.
What would be really interesting to know, is where they plan to take the XF with future OS updates.
This is a case of using mis-information against another company. The Kurzweil PC3 has a bug list that is long as an A4 sheet of paper of things that don’t work, and the last OS update for the original PC3 was March 2009. That by definition is NOT frequent.
Cheers
|
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
OK Come on Brian. It’s not misinformation. Misinformation means that I intentionally mislead someone. I don’t know anything about the PC3; the most recent Kurz I had was a K2500, and we both know there were frequent software AND hardware updates to the K2500. Sure Kurzweil is moribund right now but it doesn’t change my thesis that SOME companies update their products more frequently than others, whether it’s this or that company. The bottom line is in this internet age people have come to expect not only lower prices but more frequent updates. Hardware (flash updating) led the way on that. Some companies update more frequently than others and it would certainly be misinformation to pretend that they don’t. Also some companies update frequently because of bugs, others to add features. At best I’m saying people who buy Motifs shouldnt expect much in the way of updates; at “worst” I’m saying the Motif should have more updates and it should. Here we have a company so large, it has it’s own motorcycle, boat, and jetski divisions, and people are making excuses how they aren’t good at manufacturing in volume and/or don’t have the time/money/inclination to create and QA OS updates. Unbelievable. It’s pity party wkend for the poor multinational that gets picked on by a few customers. Funkster |
| bsmart
Total Posts: 225
Joined 01-12-2005 status: Enthusiast |
Yeh, K2500 had fairly frequent updates, but, as I remember, they were about as frequent as came for the XS. Of course, my memory might be bad. All of that was close to 15 years ago now. You must compare to today. Kurzweil updates are slow. Roland updates really don’t come at all. I can’t speak for Korg. I think XS updates were about 6 to 8 months apart on average. That isn’t bad at all. |
| GospelMusicians
Total Posts: 336
Joined 08-26-2010 status: Enthusiast |
Hey I’ve complained too as a loyal Yamaha fan of an SY85, EX5, Motif ES, but to be honest, the more you complain, the less likely Yamaha is to take you serious. Post a complaint once and be done with it my friend. I have ranted the same way and it will get you no where. Most of the people on this forum are die hard loyal to Yamaha and Yamaha can do no wrong. My motto is....You are doing good, but can do a lot better. The dream synth you are dreaming of WILL NOT HAPPEN AND I CAN SAFELY SAY NEVER!!!! I thought the EX5 had the most potential, but Yamaha gave up on it too early. Take the XF for what it is and asking for a dream synth won’t happen because of technology restraints, underpowered cheap processor, and making you want the next big thing. |
| Savnac
Total Posts: 33
Joined 07-03-2006 status: Regular |
GospelMusicians- I am shocked that you think the way you do, wow, say it once and be done with it wow. So when did you give in to “ what we as customers think should be silenced” OMG I am insulted by what you just wrote. See they like guys like you. They can redo a unit 5 times and you would just say “oh thanks”. HAVE YOU DID YOUR SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF THIS NEW UNIT YET? I am not around to cause issues here, I am just really upset that they think we are stupid customers. And you know what let them ignore us long enough about this. It will hurt the sales around the world. See I happen to believe there are more serious music people then guys just tinkering around with keys and call themselves music creators. I am betting this fact so this is where I am pulling form here that most of us care that much about a brand that will listen to us. Giving us there very best. Staying ahead of the ball. So can you please rethink what you just wrote and take that back, if i may ask out of respect to us real loyal customers. The customer is who pay them there salary, never forget this. Spssssssst! if we go away no one gets paid any money. S |
Yamaha_US
 Total Posts: 2540
Joined 07-19-2002 status: Moderator |
Don’t worry we don’t take things personally and neither should you. It’s all a part of healthy and open interaction and dialog. But that dialog can’t simply be one way and we owe it not just to you, but to other people on the forum to respond honestly. In your case, we simply disagreed that comparing the cost of a computer Firewire adapter card to an FW16E audio interface card was a fair comparison and we stand by that statement.
We don’t believe that’s a true statement and other posters here have said the same thing. The Motif XS was updated almost every six months and is now on version 1.56 (from Version 1.0). So there have been 5 major releases and many more minor releases. This is about the same as the Access Virus and significantly more than any of the Motif’s major competitors. We do think that Access does a better job of marketing the fact that they have OS updates, but the reality is the Motif has recieved about the same amount of support. Also it’s interesting that we have posted that the Motif XF will have an OS update almost immediately on release and that in the US , we have pre-installed that OS update in our warehouse. We have also posted that there will be a future OS update for the Motif XS even though this product has been dis-continued. We think that these facts show Yamaha’s continuing commitment to customer support. Again, it’s our job to put the facts out there and let people decide for themselves what is true.
First, your opinion is always valid because it is your opinion.
For example, it is some people’s opinion or perception that Access and Kurweil provide more frequent updates than Yamaha does. The fact is they do not. You can look at http://www.yamahasynth.com and at the Access website and see that in reality , the number of OS updates and their frequency was almost identical. So it is our job to point these facts out. Look , we are with you. We think everything costs too much and would love to see professional musical products be much more affordable. However the reality is that professional products like the Motif are a specialized market and it is hard to compare that costs of a Motif to say a game console or cell phone because of the economies of scale. One is a consumer product that sells in the millions and one is a professional synthesizer that sells in the tens of thousands. |
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
Wellit’s apples and oranges I think in some of these areas..frequncy ofupdates is one thing but what have the updates done? The OS updtes for Motif have been extremely minor in terms of functionality. Over 3 years what did we get? USB Recording? Skins? Funkster |
meatballfulton
 Total Posts: 3022
Joined 01-25-2005 status: Guru |
Funkster, You are confused as to what OS updates are for. Ask any mfr of any product with software or firmware and they will tell you: #1: Bug Fixes #2: Features that could not be fully implemented and tested in time for the initial product release #3: Support for technologies that didn’t exist at initial product releases (new versions of Windows, for instance) #4: New features that can be added to help with continuing sales, often called a “mid-life kicker” The idea that customers should expect new features and functionality over time as some sort of thanks for buying the product in the first place is a bit odd. You should go work as an engineer for a few decades like I have and then you might look at things differently. |
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
I’ve been an engiineer for several decades already. Absolutely the XS should have had quite a few mid life kickers...#4...once per year...and it hasn’t really done that. I’m not confused about what updates are for. What was the mid life kicker for the XS? All I’ve seen is USB Recording (hardly a kicker), skins (hardly a kicker) and bugfixes for problematic memory chips. In regards to “Economies” of scale....from YUS—I get that, but I also get that a cell phone costs a few hundred dollars and a motif costs several thousand. That should help with economies of scale. Also, the more that you can update the software the less you might need to update the hardware, therefore, there is economy in that area as well. Why can’t the Motif have a KB3 or VA1 mode like the kurzweil did/does? Clearly it could—its just a DSP chip—it can be programmed to do anything—but Yamaha just doesn’t seem to either want to or be able to execute in that area of making significant changes (adding new synthesis types and the UI and VSTi changes it requires) using the same hardware they have (whatever DSP chip). I know how this works, and I think the majority of my effort is going to be looking at what the best current VSTis are and what the best low latency output I can do is. Then I’m in control and can swap out modules at will. I had bought the motif exactly so I wouldnt have to compose at the computer, but now I’m turning full circle in that regard. Funkster |
Venatt
 Total Posts: 744
Joined 07-11-2004 status: Guru |
In my case I have nothing personal towards anybody. In fact I am here to learn wathever I can learn from others! There are so many things to be learned. |
| GospelMusicians
Total Posts: 336
Joined 08-26-2010 status: Enthusiast |
Your right Savnac.....I guess it’s been a long time hoping for some type of inspiration and modern 2010 technology with all of the potential Yamaha has. Thanks for putting me back to the real issue which is paying professional musicians!! |
| Devnor
Total Posts: 34
Joined 08-23-2010 status: Regular |
Lets not fool ourselves here. The XS worked as advertised. Some bug fixes, minor upgrades but what else do you expect? I suppose they could have announced features at product release then got around to implementing them in a year or 2 later. Now Mr Engineer how is that an upgrade? |
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
The XS worked as advertised, granted. I’m just saying they didn’t update it (much) and I don’t see how you are saying that they did. The XS is clearly upgradable. If they had announced features and got around to implementing them eventually, they would have at least shown up on the XF and might show up on the XS given how similar they are. So in response to your strawman (what if they announced...) at least if they had announced they would hopefully sometimes deliver. Funkster |
| Devnor
Total Posts: 34
Joined 08-23-2010 status: Regular |
Do you own an XS? |
| Funkster
Total Posts: 449
Joined 07-20-2008 status: Enthusiast |
Yes I do. Do you ? What does it matter? Did I miss out on some important upgrade? Funkster |
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