Well, I finally got to a store and saw and played around on the XF.  Like the look and of course the layout is very familiar to anyone who knows the XS.  Screen looks great...much easier to see and a bit more info on hand. 

Great new performances and some old familiar friends, too.  Didn’t get to run all the new voices and samples, but clearly there’s a rich palette of new sounds available.  Some of the new arps sounded nice, too.

Won’t be rushing out to exchange my XS for XF...but for anyone starting out and wondering...the answer is: YES!  Get the XF.  It was true of the XS is even more so with XF...there simply is not a better workstation keyboard out there.  None.

Donald-M - 03 September 2010 10:05 PM

there simply is not a better workstation keyboard out there.  None.

It depends on what you want from a workstation. There are better workstations out there in some areas, like user interface, more effects processors - 22 in total - modern synth sounds, analog/digital I/O interfacing, dynamic multi-function pads (can you spell F-a-n-t-o-m-G ?) or even far more advanced arps than Motif’s multiple-arpeggiators (M3 has much more potential in this area with KARMA). So I hope you know this is your own personal opinion.
If you’re talking about everyday natural sounds, the Motif has the best selection of preset voices out there, that’s for sure. But really there is no sound any modern synth/sampler can’t produce, if the user is willing to do some work to import his favorite samples and program some patches. We’re not talking about ROMplers here, there is an EDIT button in every synth today.

The first addition Yamaha should have put in their new Motif is definately a bigger screen with new user interface, or maybe a monitor output (VGA out, probably with mouse interface), even if only as an option. Most musicians today get spoiled from computer screens in their computer DAW systems, and surely that tiny Motif’s screen (tiny for today’s standards, that is) is not up-to-date, to say the least.
Even M3’s screen that is similarly sized gets more credit for being touch sensitive, thus giving the user the ability for more direct interacting with the instrument.

Yeah....with the advent if the iPhone and Androids, it is becoming clear that the touch screen is the future.

That would make the XF a No-Brainer purchase. The main reason I don’t do production on it is because I use Logic. I would probably do way more if it was touch screen.

And given the fact that Korg has been using touch screens for a long time - since the times of Trinity if I’m not mistaken -, it seems very curious that no other major manufacturer has chosen to put touch screens to their synths, especially Yamaha and Roland. Have those guys at Korg patented touch screens maybe? ;-P

No, I use a touch screen at my bank’s ATM. lol

there are some clear advateges of tuch screen, and Korg has enought quality tuch screens, i used to have triton classic wich was 10 year old keyboard and tuch screen was pefectly working

I guess it is not a pattent problem, the reason is just simply money. I guess Yamaha and Roland signed up a contract with manufactor from China a contract for 50 years that thay will buy their screens wich are not a tuch screen…

p.s.
I have read interview not long time ago from Kuzweil develoers, and Kurzweil wants to put a colour tuch screen on a next K 3000 so it should be realy woferfull for me…

A refreshing and balanced couple of posts there cyclops. =)

So few of us will ever get the chance to get intimate with every workstation out there to a degree where we can name the best.

And then it’s the best at what, sound? performance? ease of use? quality of build?

If you like your synth and it does the job well then use it and enjoy it. I know I do ;)

chilly - 04 September 2010 01:04 PM

p.s.
I have read interview not long time ago from Kuzweil develoers, and Kurzweil wants to put a colour tuch screen on a next K 3000 so it should be realy woferfull for me…

I thought that the K-series had been discontinued, the K2661 being the last instrument to be released. At least that’s what I’d read on the net. That’s why they released the PC3K, i.e. to retain compatibility with sample libraries created with the K-series.

p.s. The PC3K offers some of XF’s functinality, since it delivers a factory-fitted (i.e. not optional) 128Mbyte non-volatile flash RAM module for storing these samples. Of course the XF beats it in this area too, giving the ability to raise this memory up to 2GBytes.

Shambler - 04 September 2010 01:09 PM

A refreshing and balanced couple of posts there cyclops. =)

So few of us will ever get the chance to get intimate with every workstation out there to a degree where we can name the best.

And then it’s the best at what, sound? performance? ease of use? quality of build?

If you like your synth and it does the job well then use it and enjoy it. I know I do ;)

You’re absolutely right. There are many good ‘boards out there. Everyone chooses what they find the most appealing or more proper for what they do. Some of them can afford them all. Unluckily, most of us don’t! :-)

Touch screens on Roland synthesizers:

2003: V-Synth.

2005: V-Synth XT.

2007: V-Synth GT.

Do your homework before you rant.

chilly - 04 September 2010 01:04 PM

p.s.
I have read interview not long time ago from Kuzweil develoers, and Kurzweil wants to put a colour tuch screen on a next K 3000 so it should be realy woferfull for me…

I thought that the K-series had been discontinued, the K2661 being the last instrument to be released. At least that’s what I’d read on the net. That’s why they released the PC3K, i.e. to retain compatibility with sample libraries created with the K-series.

p.s. The PC3K offers some of XF’s functinality, since it delivers a factory-fitted (i.e. not optional) 128Mbyte non-volatile flash RAM module for storing these samples. Of course the XF beats it in this area too, giving the ability to raise this memory up to 2GBytes.

Here what seid Kurzweil in one of interviews:

Try not to be too upset, and I’ll explain a few things that I’ve explained here before but that you might have missed.

Think of the PC3K not as “the next be-all end-all keyboard” from Kurzweil - think of it as a stop gap measure that offers user sample memory, that buys time for us as we continue work on the “next be-all end-all keyboard”.
This is definitely NOT the “mothership”. This is a PC3 with a few small changes added to accommodate an additional share of the market - users who need sample memory.

Man I hate the fact that we’re stuck with the small display more than anyone. But please don’t assume that we would CHOOSE to use such a small display.
That would be stupid.

With a small staff and limited funds, we must choose our battles wisely.
Would it have been wise to take 9-12 months to develop a new UI (VERY labor intensive) for the PC3K, with a larger screen - if it then caused a 1 year delay to the K3000 or some other new ground-breaking product?
We decided that no, it would not be wise to do that.

So we had to eat it on this one, get the product out to satisfy the immediate demands of users who need sample memory NOW, while not causing any major delays to “the next big thing”.

See, we went through a hostile takeover and bankruptcy from around 2004-6 that paralyzed our R&D;progress as well as our sample library development.
While we languished for 3 years doing almost nothing (with only 5 or so engineers, who worked on the PC3), our competition was developing new samples, implementing snazzy new UIs, etc.
We have been frantically playing catch-up and will still be doing so for about another year.

((Note - we do have a free desktop editor so you don’t HAVE to use the small display for programming. While this isn’t the same as having a larger onboard screen, it’s certainly better than being stuck with only the small screen. And the editor of late (developed by an outside group) has been much more stable and robust.)

On the bright side, most small synth companies that go through takeovers and bankruptcy do not come back from the grave.
So the good news is that the world still gets to have new Kurzweil keyboards (complete with the offending small displays), when the odds of such an outcome occurring looked pretty bleak in 2005.

As far as any kind of “pattern sequencer” that old K series boards had that’s missing from the PC3, I’m not quite clear what you mean.
There are a few differences in the PC3 sequencer, but I don’t think “pattern sequencing” is one of them.

Good news - the PC3’s arpeggiator, which allows 16 independent, simultaneous arps (in addition to 16 simultaneous Riffs or sequences), actually allows you to create your own patterns with a step sequencer.
(The K allowed 1 arp and had no Riffs in setup mode, no step sequencer.)

Regarding “lifting a finger” to make the PC3’s sequencer appealing.... We kept most of the features from the K series sequencer, but added a few real time savers, things that I couldn’t believe we didn’t have in the K.
On the K, if you record an 8 bar sequence, but go over by a beat… you are required to go into the event editor and type in 9.100.000 to set the end point. This still makes my head explode.
On the PC3’s BIG page, you can just set the end and loop points.
Also the PC3’s sequencer has a pre-record filter to block controllers or certain MIDI messages - usually this is used to get rid of monopressure data, which can really bog down a sequencer.
In the K you had to edit out monopress after the fact, which was a bit tedious.

Aside from a few other minor improvements, there wasn’t really much more we could do without having a larger screen, which we all agree would be desirable.
I’m curious to know if you own or have played with a Pc3...... most folks familiar with the K, and many who are not, love the sequencer in the PC3.

As for the delays… again, trust me, I’m way more p#$� off about the delays than all of you combined.

I always try to pass along the most accurate “official” info I have at any given moment.
But there are unforeseeable events that can cause delays, even after we’ve been quite sure of ourselves.

Compared to 3 years ago, we’ve gotten much better at hitting release dates.

There are many aspects to consider…
Companies like Apple and Yamaha are huge - they have incredible resources and incredible buying power when it comes to purchasing components.
They can purchase huge stockpiles of parts and they often just purchase the parts vendors to ensure a steady, consistent flow of parts for manufacturing.
We simply cannot do that.
So if a vendor in China closes up shop, we have to scramble to find another one asap.

Another delay related issue is quality. As you may have heard, the PC3 was released prematurely (against the wishes of us here at R&D;).
There were quality problems. As a result I got to know a bunch of you sonik folks personally as we helped sort out each and every issue.
3 years later, both the factory and upper management have learned from this experience - and now they don’t let any products go out the door until all quality issues have been resolved, even if this causes a delay.

While delays are painful and can harm both sales and reputation, they are not as harmful as prematurely releasing products that have known issues.

In the case of the PC3K, we had a double-whammy - at the last minute, we had a problem with parts availability come up, combined with a quality issue that was only caught very late in the game.
The issues have been resolved, but we lost time, and the production of the SP4 could not wait.

So the PC3K, as of the latest update I received, will be shipping in late October, hitting stores in Mid to late November.

Just purchase XF8

3 HOURS of playing it like Crazy. Great! Workstation The sounds on the XF are fuller/warmer than the XS and twice More, you will not be disappointed in the Workstation! I really hate saying what is better but I’m trying to just keep it real. This is my 1st ever Yamaha Workstation. In My studio I have a Oasys,V-Piano and V SynthGT,
In my preproduction room,xv88,ts88,tritonxtr,fantomG8,fantomfa76,k2500xs,ex5r,protu2000,dm5 pro,motifesrack,mv8000,mc909,xl-7,I GIG/w XK-2,M3 and now XF8.

This is not the best workstation on the market but it is one of them. More Natural sounding but not better as good as some of the other workstations

Please do not compare this Workstation or any one of the others to the Korg Oasys They are not even close!

V-Piano vs XF Pianos V-Piano and its pianos are in a world all by itself!
V-Synth GT vs XF, XF not even Close!
M3 Karma, Sequencer XF not even Close!

Will give more details later!

Good Luck with THE XF Purchase and enjoy it until the next one come out!