LOL, do you know of a nice 88 key controller? I haven’t found one yet. At least, not one with enough knobs/sliders to make working with softsynths tolerable.

Actually you are very right about that! A Motif actually is a darn good controller for Logic. You definitely want a controller with transport controls. I’ve been looking at the Akai MPK-88, but I do have to give it to the Motif...It’s transport controls are pretty good, but most controllers with transport controls do that too…

Many issues have me torn, but none of them have anything to do with the M3. Have anyone seen that humped up new design. How in the world would you be able to fit that into a gig bag?

1. The XF8 design seemed slightly smaller than the XS8 and would make it very possible to travel with. Hint: Got to get a bag with wheels!
2. The piano sound noticeably better and richer. The sounds sounded more clean and professional than the XS, but not by a lot. There is a noticeable difference.
3. Coming from the ES, and the fact that it has twice as much RAM, I was expecting an all new sound set with new sounds. I was going through the sounds and all of the sounds I recognized from the Motif ES, i.e. Vintage ‘74.
4. Motifs are some of the best controllers out there for Logic
5. I know I would definitely use all 2GB of Flash, because I can sample and I have converters to convert just about any sample made into the XS/XF (Fully Compatible).

The big question for me is price justification. Right now the XF is almost $1k more than the XS and if you include the price of Flash it’s more. Is that justification to get the XF because of the flash or can I get the XS and suck up the loading which is much faster than the ES. Currently I’ve just made sure to come to a gig super early to load samples...Haven’t had a power outage yet, but I live in FL :(.

For those of you who currently have a Motif ES or XS, what would be your justification of getting the XF.

I already have a sweet library of plugins:
1. Logic Pro with all the packs
2. All of iKmultimedia bundle with the sale that just went on (SampleTank, SonikSynth, Miroslav)
3. Spectrasonics Trillian
4. White Grand Piano
5. Scarbee Rhodes
6. Scarbee Black Bass
7. NI Battery
8. NI FM8 (Amazing!!!)
9. NI Kontakt 3

These sounds are pretty darn good.....

A lot to consider when looking at the price tag of the Motif XF.

As a mainly Logic user myself I am fairly sure that if I was in your position I would make the same decision particularly since you have so much stuff already. Why not look for a 2nd hand S70 or S90xs ? They are a fantastic controller for logic and have the advantage of having the motif sound banks which you could import into your software sampler. A used s70xs and a Macbook Pro/Duet would probably run you about $4k which is what a XF would cost but it would give a lot more options, capability and expandability.
buy the XF for $4k and you still need a computer , interface, software etc. Myself I often buy stuff just because I can have new toys with little or no regard to them being sound rational choices.
The rational choice is to buy a MacbookPro/Interface/Controller over the XF and if that controller could have the motif sounds then its a prefect solution.

My initial thoughts on the XF8 are:

1) The Expensive proprietary flash could be done away with if they had USB 2.0 interface (fast loading times)

2) One more User bank is not enough

3) Still no easy way to work with it in a DAW without going the firewire route (more $$$)

4) The sampling/recording/sequencer probably hasn’t been improved (although I don’t know)

Would really like to hear what people are using for laptop alternative to XS...I’m more of a studio rat than a live player.

Funkster

Funkster - 02 September 2010 09:41 AM

Would really like to hear what people are using for laptop alternative to XS...I’m more of a studio rat than a live player.

Funkster

NI Kore 2 + Komplete 7 would be a great studio combination for a laptop, provided your laptop has some juice (NI’s Massive can eat clock cycles, and Kontakt can eat RAM).  Kore 2 is a really nice hands on interface and the package gives you a lot of synth tech @ your fingertips.  Nice multisampled Keys, Strings, etc.  Great package IMO.

I actually have the above setup, but am getting an XF so I don’t have to compose in front of a computer (yeah, I know I will be staring @ a 5” screen instead, but it suits my workflow better).  It’s nothing against NI, but I discovered after getting a MachineDrum and Revolution that I write much quicker and have way more fun w/o a computer (both synths have onboard sequencers).  The XF will round out my of out of the box setup very nicely.

Hope that helps.

And what sort of latency do you get out of yoru Kore etc with what hardware?

I also got the motif so I didnt have to compose at the computer, but now, if I do a sequence in the motif, then when I want to put it to the computer I have to deal with saving to usb or across network, to midi, load up, then replace the sounds in the DAW with VSTi’s and/or route it to the motif.....VSTi more convenient and portable…

So then yeah it’s fast to create on motif but slow for me to add guitar parts to...how are you handling that area?

That’s why I’d like something that is more VSTi oriented from the get go and maybe has its own built in sequencer .... but i want to go from seamless creation to further production (tracking) of live insts....without a ton of USB, audio cables, ethernet cables, blah blah and/or expensive proprietary YamaFW1138 I/F

Funkster

Latency will be a function of your computer’s speed and the quality of your sound card/drivers.  In my case it’s not an issue at all, but YMMV. 

It sounds as if the FW option would be a good fit, especially as it would cut down on the number of cables you have to deal with!  Based on a post from Bad Mister, it basically turns your Motif in to a big sound card, able to send audio back and forth in real time (i.e. you could listen to both the output of your Motif AND your softsynths/audio in your DAW at the same time).  After you build your sequence up on the Motif, dump it to Cubase & build on it w/ softsynths, etc.  But please take this all w/ a grain of salt: though I have Cubase 5.x, I have never done these things w/ a Motif as I have never owned one! Folks w. real world Motif experience (like yourself) may tell me how bad this setup sucks. :)

Re: Guitars… I sample my friend’s playing in to my MachineDrum, so we are only talking about 8 bar loops, etc.  I would also likely resample the Motif’s canned guitars and mangle them (just for fun)… so I am probably not the best person to ask here as my workflow sounds a bit different than yours.

If I worked w/ a lot of guitars for tracking purposes and didn’t want a dedicated sound card to deal with, I would use the Motif FW as a sound card to capture/monitor the guitar in to the DAW.  You would need a DI box I think, but it would be a nice, clean solution, plus you can print it “wet” w/ the Motif IFX.  Barring that, I would capture the guitar w/ a dedicated soundcard for tracking purposes, and then monitor the playback through the Motif FW after I have the tracking done.  But again, I would defer to folks that really track with guitars, and not a sound mangler like myself.

The problem with me using the Motif as a VSTi is:

1) It is a VST3 and only works with Cubase (I use Reaper)

2) I’d have to get the FW interface

3) I’d have to do all the production in the same room as the Motif

Since I record and mix in different rooms, don’t use Cubase (and don’t want to be forced to use it), and don’t use the Proprietary FW card (and don’t want to be forced to use it) it’s clunky to use the Motif in my workflow. (Of course the solution to that is to spend $2k more with Yamberg and lock myself into a proprietary solution....which I’m not going to do any more than I’m going to convert my music library to ALAC so I can use an iTV).

I am going to try syncing my DAW to the Motif somehow (any idea which direction of MTC/SPP works best) and tracking to daw while synced to motif and see how that goes for early prints without having to export etc...ideas from peeps out here on this? Is there a forum for this type of Q?

Funkster

In reply to Coinstar! There is a few new drum kits in the XF, a maple and oak kits I believe, which are very well done. I think there are also some orchestra type kits and some dance styled ones as well. If you don’t have a Motif and you’re interested in one, give the XF a test drive. It’s well worth a look & listen, and way better than the other synth platforms in it’s price range.

How was the screen redraw? Is it faster than XS? How fast? Roland Fantom fast?
I love XS but I hate it because it is soooo slow to use.

GospelMusicians - 02 September 2010 05:01 AM

Actually you are very right about that! A Motif actually is a darn good controller for Logic. You definitely want a controller with transport controls. I’ve been looking at the Akai MPK-88…

Speaking of which, I had the opportunity to demo an Akai MPK-88 and XF8 side-by-side today, and the action on the MPK is nowhere near as good as the XF8. While not as craptastic as the Maudio Keystation 88 Pro, I expected more for $800.

If you want to go softsynths only, you still have to find a decent 88-controller and AFAIK, there isn’t one for under $1k.

Bad_Mister - 01 September 2010 02:38 PM

There are two slots - you can purchase a FL512, and get second one later. Or you can mix sizes. To assume you need 2GB is really something that you may find is not really necessary. It depends. You have to ask yourself:
How many sample libraries have I purchased in the past?
Do I really know how much I need in terms of Flash Memory?

If not, do some more homework. It would be silly to spend $600 on 2Gb and then only really need 512MB for your purposes. Of course, there are people that 50GB would not be enough… You have to really find out if you are one of those people… And it is an individual thing. Try not to let others sway you.

Just for perspective the entire Motif Classic Wave ROM could fit 6 times on a single 512MB board.
The entire Motif ES Wave ROM could fit 3 times on a single 512 board.
Both the Motif + Motif ES could fit on single 512MB board with 250MB to spare!
You could fit the entire wave ROM of and M3 and a Fantom with room to spare on a single 512MB board…

The concept is to not just put any waveforms on there - but ONLY the Waveforms that you HAVE TO HAVE!!! Those that you are actually going to be using!

It would be silly to buy a board based simply on the total size of a sample library, particularly where you only use a half dozen sounds from that library. Before you purchase do your homework. Get a perspective about what you might actually need.

Until you actually work with samples and samplers, I know, it can be difficult to know. 2GB is a huge library of WAVEFORMS from which to build Voices. Just because a Library is BIG does not mean it is better. But I’ll let you be the judge of that…

I’ve heard pianos that were Gigabytes big that just didn’t do it - and I’ve heard piano many, many times smaller that were awesome!

Some one asked me today how many snare drums can fit in 2GBs… I could only laugh at the thought. (More than enough!)

Bad Mister, you are a beast!!!  Seriously!

GospelMusicians - 02 September 2010 05:01 AM

Many issues have me torn, but none of them have anything to do with the M3. Have anyone seen that humped up new design. How in the world would you be able to fit that into a gig bag?

1. The XF8 design seemed slightly smaller than the XS8 and would make it very possible to travel with. Hint: Got to get a bag with wheels!
2. The piano sound noticeably better and richer. The sounds sounded more clean and professional than the XS, but not by a lot. There is a noticeable difference.
3. Coming from the ES, and the fact that it has twice as much RAM, I was expecting an all new sound set with new sounds. I was going through the sounds and all of the sounds I recognized from the Motif ES, i.e. Vintage ‘74.
4. Motifs are some of the best controllers out there for Logic
5. I know I would definitely use all 2GB of Flash, because I can sample and I have converters to convert just about any sample made into the XS/XF (Fully Compatible).

The big question for me is price justification. Right now the XF is almost $1k more than the XS and if you include the price of Flash it’s more. Is that justification to get the XF because of the flash or can I get the XS and suck up the loading which is much faster than the ES. Currently I’ve just made sure to come to a gig super early to load samples...Haven’t had a power outage yet, but I live in FL :(.

For those of you who currently have a Motif ES or XS, what would be your justification of getting the XF.

I already have a sweet library of plugins:
1. Logic Pro with all the packs
2. All of iKmultimedia bundle with the sale that just went on (SampleTank, SonikSynth, Miroslav)
3. Spectrasonics Trillian
4. White Grand Piano
5. Scarbee Rhodes
6. Scarbee Black Bass
7. NI Battery
8. NI FM8 (Amazing!!!)
9. NI Kontakt 3

These sounds are pretty darn good.....

A lot to consider when looking at the price tag of the Motif XF.

What do you mean “humped up” new design?

GospelMusicians - 02 September 2010 05:01 AM

Many issues have me torn, but none of them have anything to do with the M3. Have anyone seen that humped up new design. How in the world would you be able to fit that into a gig bag?

1. The XF8 design seemed slightly smaller than the XS8 and would make it very possible to travel with. Hint: Got to get a bag with wheels!
2. The piano sound noticeably better and richer. The sounds sounded more clean and professional than the XS, but not by a lot. There is a noticeable difference.
3. Coming from the ES, and the fact that it has twice as much RAM, I was expecting an all new sound set with new sounds. I was going through the sounds and all of the sounds I recognized from the Motif ES, i.e. Vintage ‘74.
4. Motifs are some of the best controllers out there for Logic
5. I know I would definitely use all 2GB of Flash, because I can sample and I have converters to convert just about any sample made into the XS/XF (Fully Compatible).

The big question for me is price justification. Right now the XF is almost $1k more than the XS and if you include the price of Flash it’s more. Is that justification to get the XF because of the flash or can I get the XS and suck up the loading which is much faster than the ES. Currently I’ve just made sure to come to a gig super early to load samples...Haven’t had a power outage yet, but I live in FL :(.

For those of you who currently have a Motif ES or XS, what would be your justification of getting the XF.

I already have a sweet library of plugins:
1. Logic Pro with all the packs
2. All of iKmultimedia bundle with the sale that just went on (SampleTank, SonikSynth, Miroslav)
3. Spectrasonics Trillian
4. White Grand Piano
5. Scarbee Rhodes
6. Scarbee Black Bass
7. NI Battery
8. NI FM8 (Amazing!!!)
9. NI Kontakt 3

These sounds are pretty darn good.....

A lot to consider when looking at the price tag of the Motif XF.

yeah, but how usefull are all those sounds in a live situation?

Jive Talking Robot - 02 September 2010 10:02 AM

I actually have the above setup, but am getting an XF so I don’t have to compose in front of a computer (yeah, I know I will be staring @ a 5” screen instead, but it suits my workflow better). 

so what ended up making you decide against the m3?