jan bruijn - 12 August 2010 03:55 AM

Gert,

You can Use the TYROS2 and 3 also with good voice libraries if you feel the need for it. The question was the sound quality of the internal voices of the synthesizers and how you can use them.

For playing the voices of voice libraries like EAST WEST you do not need synethesizers like the MOTIF or TYROS, you only need a powerful PC and a good midi keyboard.

Gert je moet niet appels met peren vergelijken.



Jan

Hi Jan,

Symphonic Suite use only the waveforms INSIDE the Motif, There are no new samples!!!
It are just a Motif XS waveforms with better programmed voices.

That’s the difference with Tyros. A keyboard is pre-programmed.
And with a synth: you have to do the voice programming by yourself. But the end-result is awesome!

By the way: I don’t speak about software voice libraries like East West. Symphonic Suite is a XS voice library, which you can find in the motifator shop.

(dus géén appels en peren)

Let’s clarify.

Yamaha knows their market. They’ve been extremely successful with both the Tyros and the Motif lines. The Tyros features are geared towards what that market demands. Tyros users are generaly not programmers or tweakers, nor do they care to edit sounds...sound CREATION is not what they use the Tyros for.

Auto-arranger keyboards are more popular in Europe than they are in the U.S...since the U.S. is the biggest market, I’d go along with what Yamaha says about Tyros customers being hobbyists - statistically, that would be true. Doesn’t mean anything negative or insulting...yes you see “professional” musicians in Europe with a Tyros 2 or 3 on stage in a performance. I’ve never seen a Tyros in use onstage with a well-known successful artist here in the U.S. - not one. The professionals who play and perform in bands, or who do studio production, here in the U.S., overwhelmingly purchase the Motif.

Motif users are a different demographic and they generally do not want an auto-arranger type keyboard with sounds that cannot be created or seriously edited. The sound editing on the Tyros 3 is limited (VERY limited) to offsets. If you have a Tyros you’d know this is the case.

I emphatically disagree that the Tyros sounds better than the Motif, or vice versa. They are two different machines. The actual tonal quality of each machine is about the same. When people say they like the sounds in the Tyros 3 “better”, I find they usually mean they like the “behavior” better on the Tyros. I could also make an argument that the drumkits in the Motif series are “better” than those on the Tyros - if for no other reasons than that the Motif drumkits are more editable, and offer more sounds that aren’t available in Tyros.

Will Yamaha ever “merge” the two products into one? My educated opinion - never. That would just create a more expensive product with features that both targeted markets don’t need.

Thanks Dave, you have explained in better words what I meant to say.

Still, you can’t get a convincing trumpet shake by merely applying LFO to trumpet waveform, nor you can get a convincing brass fall or guitar slide by applying pitch bend (we DO have separate fall and slide waveforms in the XS for some reason, right?). And that’s where Tyros wins.

Let’s not confuse having more sampled articulations with automating them.

Mote is right which is why we out the trumpet shake in the XF, it.s when the trumpet shake , guitar slides and brass falls happen that is different between Tryos and Motif.  With Tyros the slides are done automatically and with Motif you have more control as to when they happen because you press a button or play harder to get the articulation.

Yamaha_US - 13 August 2010 11:20 AM

Mote is right which is why we out the trumpet shake in the XF, it.s when the trumpet shake , guitar slides and brass falls happen that is different between Tryos and Motif.  With Tyros the slides are done automatically and with Motif you have more control as to when they happen because you press a button or play harder to get the articulation.

Take it Yamaha US have never played a Tyros-3 then....You get the same two buttons all be it called Art 1 & Art 2 instead of Assignable Function 1 & 2 which does exactly the same...also not sure how a button gives you more control for live performance...i find it the exact opposite and much prefer to control the sound by the way i play.....
Motif is a generation behind the Tyros line....some of the Best sounds on the Motif XS have filterd down form the Tyros 2 in remains to be seen if the XF gets a few of the Tyros-3 sounds…

Yamaha-US

I also think you are not correct. The TYROS3 has indeed also two button art.1 and art.2 and also reacts how subtle you touch the keys on the keyboard.

The TYROS3 also has a voice editor to manupilate the voices your way and a box full of effect tricks.

I assume the top american musicians on stage are not aware of the advantages of the T3 yet, because they think the T3 is a simple arranger which it is not. It also is a DAW instrument like the XS and XF.

However the discussion does not make sense because within a couple of weeks the announcement of the TYROS4 or whatever the name will be is a fact. Who knows what this machine offers. LOL.

Jan

jan bruijn - 13 August 2010 02:51 PM

Yamaha-US

s.

I assume the top american musicians on stage are not aware of the advantages of the T3 yet, because they think the T3 is a simple arranger which it is not. It also is a DAW instrument like the XS and XF.


Jan

Jan, with all due respect, the Motifs offer features the Tyros series doesn’t have. And the Tyros offers features that the Motif series doesn’t
have.

If you like the Tyros series, that’s great. But please don’t think that
Yamaha US or American musicians in general are not “aware” of the Tyros -
I’ve had the Tyros keyboards (all 3 versions) in my studio. They do not
offer what I need for music production or live performance. Perhaps
for you they do.

This is a Motif forum, by the way. Tyros discussions are here:

http://www.arrangerworkstation.com

Dave

I have an MOTIFXS8 too and most of your voice libraries. No reason to attack me. So I also know both machines. That arranger site you gave I knew and that one is as dead as a doornail. No activity at all. There are better links in the Netherlands.

I love both XS8 and TYROS3 and use the best features of both.

I am on the mo forums for over 4 years and learn a lot there. I also have seen that a lot of motif users are more complaning about there motif than making music with them. As soon as they finally master there motifs they buy a new model and the complain cyclus starts again. Making music no way. Ofcourse most of the US top musicians have no problems because they have a staf of technicians who are preparing there machines on stage.

I think the TYROS has a image problem caused by marketing strategies. MOTIF is professional, TYROS is for Hobby.

As your fan and MOTIF/TYROS fan I feel a little disappointed about this Yamaha strategy

Jan

jan bruijn - 13 August 2010 02:51 PM

However the discussion does not make sense because within a couple of weeks the announcement of the TYROS4 or whatever the name will be is a fact. Who knows what this machine offers.

Do you really think so? Tyros3 was just released in 2008. Given the economy crisis I don’t think it’s likely to see Tyros4 this year. It took Yamaha 3.5 years to release, well, a slightly updated version of XS. Unless all R&D resources went to Tyros (which would more or less contradict the “Tyros is for hobbyists” argument?) branch.

Jote

Yes. 99.9% sure there will be an announcement of a new TYROS somewhere in Sept/Oct. 2010.

Jan

Jote - 14 August 2010 06:41 AM

jan bruijn - 13 August 2010 02:51 PM

However the discussion does not make sense because within a couple of weeks the announcement of the TYROS4 or whatever the name will be is a fact. Who knows what this machine offers.

Do you really think so? Tyros3 was just released in 2008. Given the economy crisis I don’t think it’s likely to see Tyros4 this year. It took Yamaha 3.5 years to release, well, a slightly updated version of XS. Unless all R&D resources went to Tyros (which would more or less contradict the “Tyros is for hobbyists” argument?) branch.

Indeed Jan is correct Jote! The Tyros-4 is indeed launching this year...Also the idea of Tyros is for Hobbyists i find quite an ignorent comment from certain quarters i add not from yourself…
I’d agree the lower line models are aimed at maybe a Hobbyist!
I firmly believe that Yamaha bring the best sounds to Tyros/Clavinova then Motif in that order.......
I own both as i’ve mentioned & wouldn’t be without either…
Both have there strong points....
As i’ve mentioned before Tyros3 hands down for real instrument sounds/organs, Motif for Synth sounds/Pads etc etc and Drums.
Maybe if the Tyros was metal instead off the crappy plastic which for a fairly expensive instrument it is it may be taken more seriously.....

Jote - 14 August 2010 06:41 AM

Tyros3 was just released in 2008. Given the economy crisis I don’t think it’s likely to see Tyros4 this year.

jan bruijn - 14 August 2010 05:38 AM

Dave

I have an MOTIFXS8 too and most of your voice libraries. No reason to attack me. So I also know both machines. That arranger site you gave I knew and that one is as dead as a doornail. No activity at all. There are better links in the Netherlands.

I love both XS8 and TYROS3 and use the best features of both.

I am on the mo forums for over 4 years and learn a lot there. I also have seen that a lot of motif users are more complaning about there motif than making music with them. As soon as they finally master there motifs they buy a new model and the complain cyclus starts again. Making music no way. Ofcourse most of the US top musicians have no problems because they have a staf of technicians who are preparing there machines on stage.

I think the TYROS has a image problem caused by marketing strategies. MOTIF is professional, TYROS is for Hobby.

As your fan and MOTIF/TYROS fan I feel a little disappointed about this Yamaha strategy

Jan

Jan, and others, I completely understand what you’re saying. And it is
my impression that you took the “hobbyists” comment as an insult.

As I stated before, statistically the Motif is the preference of
professional musicians globally, if you include the U.S. market, which
is the largest market.

Motif users who post here on this forum regularly are in the minority.
The majority of Motif customers figure out how it works and are
happy with it. That includes all of the “top U.S. professionals” -
you’d be surprised at how many of the top pros do their own set up
and programming. Particularly in this economy of shrinking budgets
and canceled tours.

Is there a perception among some musicians that arranger workstations
are for hobbyists? Of course there is. Whether that opinion is justified
or even correct has nothing to do with it - that perception exists, that’s all I’m saying.

Anyway, back to whether the Tyros line and Motif line will ever be “merged” into a single product - I really don’t expect that will ever
happen.

Dave,

I think, calling the TYROS3 designed for hobbyists is more an insult to the Yamaha Designers of the TYROS3 than to the users.

I agree with you sofar that both machines are and will not merge in to one machine. I only hope that the TYROS will merge more into the Yamaha/Steinberg concept using the FW Fire Wire connection and Cubase, like the MOTIF XS and XF.

Jan