Old Motifator threads are available in the Archive.
AK-Jake
Total Posts: 52
Joined 04-20-2008 status: Experienced |
Does anyone know why this is? It’s the biggest shortcoming I see in the new Motif XF. I figured for SURE the “new Motif” now known as the XF would double this and allow 8 voices to be split/layered in one performance. One last clarification: does the XF allow patches to continue playing while switching to another? Or is there a big nasty cutoff of sound like the XS has? Thanks. |
Bad_Mister
Total Posts: 36620
Joined 07-30-2002 status: Moderator |
It is pretty clear that you missed this as well on the XS. :) Performance mode (let’s just say you don’t understand it)… But if you want to split/layer and play more than 4 VOICES at once, this is called MIXING mode. It also allows you to switch between sounds without interruption (this has been true of Motif’s since 2001) same as it ever was. You can in MIXING mode place all 16 VOICES on the same MIDI channel or set them to any MIDI channel you wish. You can also move between the 16 Voice in a MIXING program without any sound interruption. |
Tomez
Total Posts: 6
Joined 04-22-2007 status: Newcomer |
I also do not understand, why Yamaha has not fixed this issue. I prefer the performance mode and play most songs with the performance mode (and I think I understand this mode quite well). It is much easier and faster for me to navigate through the performance list and to edit the performance parameters, than in pattern or song mode. I was also hoping, that Yamaha would fix this shortmcoming after another 3 years of develpoment.
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sciuriware
Total Posts: 9999
Joined 08-18-2003 status: Guru |
One more vote for 8 Voices-per-Performance in the forthcoming Motif USX-8. ;JOOP! |
zisidisnikos
Total Posts: 57
Joined 09-22-2008 status: Experienced |
Like the Korg Synths… “Combi mode” 8 voices every present.. but the “normal” voice mode of motif xs-xf have 8 elements(per “voice")… x4 in performance mode...hmmm yes is a good result… but i thing the new XF have only a few upgrades.. expecting development more options. |
Aryn
Total Posts: 26
Joined 06-25-2009 status: Regular |
The problem is that we can not change the harmony of the left in pattern mode. Yamaha Motif love, but 4 parts is less, and this creates difficulties in live performance! Please do something like the Yamaha Motif XF and raise to a new level of performance, with 8 parts in performance mode! Yamaha can, you’re the best, only if you want to act ! You can see that people want this! If this desire fulfilled we pay for this technology, even if the price will be higher, it is our desire for which we assume to pay! Thanks! P.S. I was once sent to Tyros on this forum, but it does not arpegiator, no sound synthesis as Motif, has no 6 octaves, so as an arranger Tyros is not suitable! |
DavePolich
Total Posts: 6820
Joined 07-27-2002 status: Guru |
Bad Mister is exactly right. MIX mode is like COMBI
It’s just a matter of perception. If you want 8 parts, select SONG or PATTERN mode but don’t sequence anything - just use the MIX section. Press either the SONG or PATTERN button and then press MIX. It’s right there. You can set any part to any MIDI channel (all of them could be on MIDI channel 1, if you want), you can set the key zone for each part, and transpose it up or down. In fact you can edit voices in a mix so that they are “mix voices” and customized for your particular mix, and they will belong to that mix, without changing how they sound in voice mode.
MIX mode is way way more powerful than most people realize, and furthermore, it works for live playing..you don’t have to make a song
An 8-part Performance is not going to happen, because you already
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synthlogic
Total Posts: 481
Joined 11-13-2008 status: Enthusiast |
The Korg M3 has 16 voices per combination. That’s what I like most about it… so many possibilities, plus KARMA. It’s a great compliment to my XS. |
DavePolich
Total Posts: 6820
Joined 07-27-2002 status: Guru |
I like the M3 too - I have an M361.
But here’s the problem with Combi mode, even on the M3 - when you place
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Aryn
Total Posts: 26
Joined 06-25-2009 status: Regular |
Our shortcoming should not be seen as an attack, as he understood the Yamaha, but that users need, where maybe Yamaha would be better to solve and not marginalize those who say their needs, so we will be united! |
WesEXer
Total Posts: 336
Joined 10-29-2003 status: Enthusiast |
Don’t you have to be in “song” mode for this? Or Song mode within Master mode. I wasn’t expecting the basic architecture to change with the XF, but more than 4 parts sure would have been nice. I run into limitations ALL THE TIME having to work around this for splits and layers. I know I can go and mess with voices to do layers/splits so I can do the work TWICE, but if you do this enough it’s maddening. This to me is the archilles heel of the ENTIRE Motif series. If you use a lot of sounds it makes the Motif (ANY of them) a PATHETIC controller for a Live Rig. Check it out: Want to do 8 splits and layers with some external synths? AFAIK, Here’s what you have to do: Method 1: Go in Master Mode, set it to Song/Pattern mode and assign all your sounds, routing etc. You get the pleasure of wasting a SONG to do this. You can only do this 64 times as that’s how many songs there are, more if you’re allowed to use patterns. (I’ve never gone this route, because just the CONCEPT is ridiculous! What am I using a sound canvas here?) Even so, you max out at 128 because that’s all master mode has to offer. Method 2: Go into performance mode, and assign your voices, etc. Need more than 4? Well then go into some of your voices and copy paste open oscillators (Hopefully they’re available and not already used by the voice!) and then assign them splits, layers etc. Now reassign in Performance mode. Repeat ad nauseum. Method 2 Addendum: Want to control external synths? Ok, Now Take your performance, and assign that in master mode, allow the 4 “external” zones. But wait, it appears one of those 4 zones has to be assigned to the PERFORMANCE patch you want to use! Unless your external synth sound happens to be on the same bank and patch #, guess what? You now only have control for THREE (3) external sources. So you can only control up to three external devices at a time, unless you have them hooked up to a midi patch bay. Forgive me if I missed something, but AFAIK this is how it works, or appeared to work when I went to use it and decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. Wanna do this in a Korg or Roland? Go into combi mode (Or roland equiv), choose your voices, setup your layers/splits. Assign channels (Like 16 of them to use) to external whatever you want. DONE.
Historically I LIKED using the power of MIDI to layer keyboards and have the ability to split and layer them from ONE controller. Fancy that! How 1993 of me! Unfortunately, to say it’s a chore on the Motif series to do this is an understatement. Not to mention it wastes TONS of memory slots trying to make this work the “Traditional” (As in every workstation since the 80’s has worked) way. Master mode is one of the most idiotic concepts Yamaha has EVER produced IMNHO.
This is true, but why couldn’t “MIXING” mode features be available in performance mode? If the machine’s capable, why cripple it for live use? I never understood this. Korg’s program mode is a bit long in the tooth, but 2 osc in a voice ain’t so bad because you have 4 sub osc per voice which can be velocity switched. So depending on how you look at it, in effect “8 elements” per voice. In some cases, this makes it identical to the current motif in practice. To make the point there’s only a small subset of the motif voices that actually use ALL 8 elements, often not even 4. So it’s somewhat of a moot point. Korgs Combi mode from a live performance POV is infinitely more useful than Yammy’s performance mode. They tried to reinvent the wheel and BROKE IT IMO. It’s great that there’s more effects, but that would be MUCH more interesting if it still had the functionality of the older synths that had traditional “Combi” modes. Having to go into special modes and programming workarounds is just plain BS IMO. Master Mode creates more problems than it solves BY A LONGSHOT IMO. Oh, and why can’t I copy effect params from a VOICE’s system effects to a Performance? Sure, the Inserts come over, but not the rest. This seems to be obvious and has yet to be implemented. If it has, I certainly haven’t found it. There’s other obvious things I feel Yamaha should have done, but this is about performance mode so I’ll leave it at that. |
johnb787
Total Posts: 169
Joined 01-07-2010 status: Pro |
8 voices to be split/layered in one performance it is perfect.motif XS ,motif XF.yes |
shakil
Total Posts: 102
Joined 11-28-2002 status: Pro |
Dave Polich: “MIX mode is like COMBI mode on a Korg” Actually the MIX mode in Motif is ‘better’ than the COMBI mode on Korg. Here is why. In MIX mode you can save fully edited, customized version of the programs in the MIX. In a COMBI on Korg, you are only referencing a program sound on 16 channels. So, the MIX mode is like having 16 user programs saved! The only issue is the number of Mixes is much fewer than number of COMBIs you can have in one data file. |
Aryn
Total Posts: 26
Joined 06-25-2009 status: Regular |
I think if you put 8 parts multi-timbral in performance mode instead of 4, you make many people happy on the entire planet because desire is so great, then many people would be calm and would enjoy! |
Yamaha_US
Total Posts: 2540
Joined 07-19-2002 status: Moderator |
“But wait, it appears one of those 4 zones has to be assigned to the PERFORMANCE patch “ Just to clarify, the Motif XS and XF have 8 Master Mode Zones, not 4. We think you must be referring to the Motif ES which had 4 zones. |
Aryn
Total Posts: 26
Joined 06-25-2009 status: Regular |
Sorry expression, we wanted to say 8 Voices / Arpeggiator in Performance Mode, not 4 ! My soul hurts ... |