in layperson language: how will this change (loss of mLan in XF, use of FW16E) affect us as music composers, as recorders, as performers, as those interfacing with Logic 9 or with Apogee ensemble, etc?

There have been two ‘versions’ of the FW interface:
mLAN (older, uses mLAN driver)
FW (newer, uses YSFW driver)

If you are using the YSFW driver on your XS then you should see no change if you use a FW card on the XF.

If you are currently not using mLAN(older) or FW(newer) drivers at all, then you won’t notice any difference (you still have the S/D DIF and the analogue outputs as you did before).

If you are using older (mLAN) drivers (for example if you have a setup with legacy Yamaha gear in it that requires them) then the XF will not work with these.

If you are currently using the YSFW driver with your XS and you buy an XF, then you will need to add the FW card to the XF (I’m not sure if the existing cards will work in the XF or if you need to buy an XF specific one) if you want to still be able to have the 16 channels of audio from the XF to the computer, and the 6(?) channels back from the computer to the XF.

I stand ready to be corrected, but this is my understanding of things.

If I’m recording from the XS then I’ll usually use the YSFW driver to get best results, but S/P DIF (to the Apogee) is just as good, and analogue is not noticeably worse in most situations.

As I record from many other sources as well as the XS, I tend to use the analogue ports on the ensemble for all other inputs to the DAW. I have all the workstations in my studio connected to the back of a balanced patchbay, as well as the 8 analogue inputs on the ensemble so I can easily patch any synth to any input.

I always use the Ensemble as my output, in all cases.

Df.

Here it is in a nutshell: Do you own any of the following products: 01X mixing console, i88X I/O device, ES synthesizer (Motif ES/S90 ES) with an original mLAN16E card, 0-series mixer with an MY16-mLAN card, DM-series mixer with an MY16-mLAN card, n-series Mixer with version 1.02 or earlier)?

If the answer is yes: the FW16E will not connect to these devices via firewire because the FW16E cannot use the old mLAN TOOLS or old AI Drivers.

If you have an XS (Motif XS or Motif-Rack XS with an mLAN16E2) you will be able to update the mLAN16E2 so that it will work with systems containing FW16E and using the new Yamaha Steinberg FW driver.

So if you do not own a legacy mLAN product, you have no worries.

The FW16E does audio and MIDI via firewire (same as the mLAN16E2) but it can only use the newer multiple peer-to-peer driver (i.e., Yamaha Steinberg FW driver).

If you are doing music production and can benefit from connecting your Motif XF to a computer and can use 16 audio bus outputs and 3 pair of audio returns, plus MIDI communication, then quite naturally you cannot beat the FW connectivity of the FW16E.

In recording audio nothing beats the Motif-series:
1) External drive: QUICK and EASY: Connect a USB drive or to a computer network via Ethernet and record 74 minutes of continuous data (Stereo @ 44.1kHz WAV format).

2) On board: QUICK and EASY: Record direct to 128MB of on-board SDRAM record continously 12+ minutes stereo @ 44.ikHz WAV format

3) External record: full Music Producton: connect to a computer via firewire, assign individual drums, individual PARTS of your MIXING setup to any of 16 audio bus outputs - requires option FW16E2 (or updated mLAN16E2)

This means if you are player, a player/singer, you don’t have to be a rocket surgeon (or brain scientist) to record your music. If you only want to post a file on a web page or email it to your friends, you can record immediately (nothing to add but a USB drive and a musical idea). And if you want to do full on serious music production you have the most powerful music workstation tool for the job.

That’s it in a not technical nutshell. 

The XF also when expanded with FL means you take your “impossible to reproduce on stage” tracks with you.

Can I use my old mLAN16E2 that I had in my ES7 (and S90ES after that) and put it in the XF?..

merci BM & Df!

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 02:25 PM

Can I use my old mLAN16E2 that I had in my ES7 (and S90ES after that) and put it in the XF?..

I´m still stuck with my 01x, I88x, Motif ES Rack, Windows XP and Mlan so I don’t really trust Yamaha and those “new” revolutionary developments coming from time to time like mlan16E2 or FW16E, more interesting is if there will be a new real professional mixingconsole like the 02R96,(not like N12 - real stuff for pros´), released soon - gear that last and are useable more than a couple of years.

Bad_Mister - 05 August 2010 05:36 PM

kokocalamar - 05 August 2010 02:25 PM

Can I use my old mLAN16E2 that I had in my ES7 (and S90ES after that) and put it in the XF?..

See this thread...

You probably meant this thread, but thanks anyway!

Anyway, good news. I can put my mLAN16E2 in the XF. Nice!

I think I mis-spoke… If you have an mLAN16E2 - then you have a Motif XS or a Motif-Rack XS - it can be used in a Motif XF with the latest IEEE1394 update.

Sorry for the confusion… mLAN16E2 is for the XS and Rack XS and can be used with the YSFW Driver.

The original mLAN16E (ES) cannot.

Okay,"Bad 1”. You know I can be a little “thick”.
Presently, I have the ES8 to 01V96v2 to Adaptec hardware in the computer to Cubase 5.

If I understand you correctly, with the XF I “can” connect to the Adaptec in the computer “directly” to C-Base.

I CANNOT go XF through the 01V to the Adaptec to the computer.

I “CAN” update the drivers so that I can still use my 01V through to the computer.

Is there another interface/card for the 01V96 or the DM (I use that on the gig)that I would need to route the XF through to the software?

Could I do some USB/MIDI “razzle dazzle” with the XF to get to the software?

Sorry if I make you repeat yourself. Just want to be sure.
(TBxR)

Bad_Mister - 05 August 2010 05:53 PM

I think I mis-spoke… If you have an mLAN16E2 - then you have a Motif XS or a Motif-Rack XS - it can be used in a Motif XF with the latest IEEE1394 update.

Sorry for the confusion… mLAN16E2 is for the XS and Rack XS and can be used with the YSFW Driver.

The original mLAN16E (ES) cannot.

No, I think it’s me that’s confused..

Yeah, I just checked: the board from my ES7 / S90ES in my drawer is called mLAN16E, not mLAN16E2. Which means I won’t be able to use it in the XF. Oh well, that’s life…

I’ve been away from Yamaha for the past three years (went the Oasys way), so I’ve forgotten a lot of things, and mixed some other things up.

But hey, it seems the XF is going to get me to come back to Yamaha!

Thanks.

Another downfall! you diss the awesome mlan networking for the junky p2p.

Yamaha is going downhill: first all the analog synthesis and FM options got stripped, and now mlan networking, what next > just remove the whole synthesis board itself and make a MIDI controller.

Phil,

Would I need to update my mLAN16E2 if want to use it in my XS in the future with my old mLAN gears (01X, ES8, i88x)? Will it give additional benefits for the old chain or this update is only for the peer-to-peer functionality with the newer devices?

The next immediate question that comes to mind is that will I have to do this update at all because maybe with updating the card I won’t be able to use the XS in an old mLAN chain that I do currently.

Thanks for clarifying

Arpad

Would I need to update my mLAN16E2 if want to use it in my XS in the future with my old mLAN gears (01X, ES8, i88x)? Will it give additional benefits for the old chain or this update is only for the peer-to-peer functionality with the newer devices?

The next immediate question that comes to mind is that will I have to do this update at all because maybe with updating the card I won’t be able to use the XS in an old mLAN chain that I do currently

If you are using an mLAN16E2 in a Motif XS, now with your old mLAN gear (01X, Motif ES8, i88X) then you are fine exactly where you are. The mLAN16E2 is uniquely able to use either the old driver (mLAN) or the new Yamaha Steinberg FW driver (YSFW).

As you know you have a parameter in the XS [F1] GENERAL > [F4] AUTO LOAD > IEEE1394 DRIVER = mLAN or FW

The FW16E can only use the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver.

So you just keep your mLAN16E2 in your Motif XS and you are fine, because it can use either driver (simpley set it so it loads the IEEE1394 DRIVER = “mLAN”. It is your 01X, Motif ES8 and i88X that can only use the older mLAN driver.

Great, thank you!

Bad_Mister - 06 August 2010 10:31 AM

So you just keep your mLAN16E2 in your Motif XS and you are fine, because it can use either driver (simpley set it so it loads the IEEE1394 DRIVER = “mLAN”. It is your 01X, Motif ES8 and i88X that can only use the older mLAN driver.

Phil,

To clarify, you are referring to the use of the mLAN16E2 in an XS which will be able to communicate with the new FW16E card in the XF series.  I’d like to know if I can use my existing mLAN16E2 board in the XF or will the XF series only accept the new FW16E boards?

Thanks!